steamin53

OHHHHHHHHHHHHH JEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ! I went out this afternoon and checked for ignition with a spark tester light and the danged thing started right up. Runs Great. I HATE INTERMITTENT PROBLEMS!!! "I can't fix it if it aint broke!" Thanks everyone for your replies.

Thanks for the reply imdew. What you say is true. I would have expected a report from the driver and/or passenger that there would have been some other noises if the belt broke wouldn't you? Also, the report is that the engine never fired during the cranking. (I wish it had happened to me then I'd be certain). I'm not sure that if it had broken and valve/piston impact occurred that perhaps it would have locked the engine as I sort of doubt that the starter would have enough torque to continue to turn it over under that condition. What's your take? Can those covers be removed without removing the AC Compressor/Alternator, etc? Oh yeah... I wish I still had my Guzzi 850 Eldorado...

The wife has a 96 Legacy Outback 2.5 engine. Last night she could not get it to fire while cranking the engine. A passenger standing along side the vehicle while she attempted to start it states they heard a bang sound (later further detailed to perhaps be a snap like a stick breaking) while the wife was cranking the starter. The vehicle will not start but will crank under the starter power and the cranking seems to sound as normal (not compression free) with no unusual sounds. Could the timing belt have broken while the starter was cranking the engine? If so, what's the likely extent of damage since it never started? I haven't checked the ignition or anything other than cranking it under starter power yet as it's been raining outside like the great flood but will do so this afternoon.

96 Legacy Outback. I'll ask this stupid question before I break the plastic panel to access the top of the rear struts on my wife's car. I get that there are clips aound the permiter of the panel which I got loose yesterday. But, there appears to be a bolt or screw holding it too which may have some sort of cap cover on it. HELP! (It is so much better to look stupid here than to break her part and put up will all the hassle that would bring.) Steve

1996 Legacy Outback. The air ducts door controls are not enabling the system to switch to the top vents. All other functions work. When the vent button is pushed the motor must try but fails to move the door(s) to the correct position and a clicking sound is heard behind the instrument cluster. I presume the system is electo-mechanical and not vacuum operated. Anyone have any experience here? Steve

Problem Solved! Just to close this as I hate threads that have no ending... happy or otherwise. As it turns out two of the flex plate to converter bolts were not completely torqued down by the shop that did the trans R&R. I torqued them down and presto noise and vibration gone. (Mom always said "keep it simple stupid"!) Steve

Thanks for the information grossgary. I've read the information at that link previously. Unfortunately it just doesn't answer the questions. Are you aware that the first link you provided is of the transaxle and not the torque converter? I'm hoping to see what bearings might exist inside the torque converter. Steve

Deleted as double post of same message/

The bushing that was replaced lies immediately behind the wiper seal for the torque converter shaft. It is referred to in one parts list at the CONVERTER HOUSING BUSHING and in another list as the BELL HOUSING TO CONVERTER HUB BUSHING. The bushing in the illustration you attached would lie immediately behind the seal which is called out as item 15. I too find no reference anywhere to noise that goes away when the converter locks up. Am I correct in the presumtion that the converter only locks in 4th gear? Steve

Thanks for your reply grossgary; it's all good advice. The bushing that failed is the brass bushing in the front of the transaxle. I have considered installing the original trans and swapping the rear sections but of course there is uncertainty in it too as that tranny has been stored on a pallet out doors for a couple of years now. I'm praying that it's a bearing in the torque converter and attempting to logically isolate to the converter. That would be my best case scenario. What do you make of the fact that the noise stops once the converter locks? Am I correct in my understanding of lock-up occuring in 4th gear only? It seems to me that if that is the case then at lock-up converter bearings would be inactive and explain the noise stopping. I'm speculating, but it seems that a change in torque loading at 2nd to 3rd shift might also make the bearing talk. What's your take on these theories? Steve

I'm hoping for a response from someone really knowledgeable about the 1996 version 4EAT transmission and/or torque converters. Our 96 Legacy Outback has 250,500 miles on it. The transmission in our car is one that I obtained at about 200,000 from a donor vehicle with 70,000 miles on it in replacement of the original which had a torque bind issue only. (I figured at 200,000 miles I should go ahead and replace it). We recently had a front torque converter seal fail in the donor tranny due to a worn bushing on the transmission input shaft. After replacement of the bushing and seal the seal still leaked. Removal of the torque converter again indicated that the shaft was worn sufficiently to cause the new seal to also fail. We also replaced the bushing a second time as a preventive measure and I replaced the torque converter in the donor transmission with the converter from our original transmission which I had kept for parts. Once installed, the transmission would produce a slight high frequency (not pitch) ratching sound in 4th gear only when accelerating and coming out of lock-up which would stop as soon as the torque converter locked up again. The sound was almost so subtle that one could not hear it and actually sounded like an air leak on a faulty window seal. No other performance issues existed. The transmission now produces the ratching sound at shift from 2nd to 3rd just at the shift point and then the noise stops. It still present in 4rd gear at all speeds when under load (i.e. not when coasting). It still stops completely once the torque converter locks up in 4th and returns once the converter is unlocked as in passing a vehicle. It is never present in 1st or 2nd gear. I stored the donor torque converter now in the transmission installed in my original tranny and tarped on a pallet out of doors. Prior to installation in my current transmission I drained it to ensure no moisture had accumulated in it and no moisture or particulate was found. Ok, now for the question. I'm uncertain as to whether storing the convertor installed in the old tranny may have compromised some bearing inside it. I guess I'm wondering what is your take on the noise as described might be... could it be the torque converter? I'm thinking maby so since the noise always stops when the converter locks up in 4th gear. I read somewhere that the converter is locked in all gears but I don't think so as once at highway speed in 4th gear I can feel it lock and the RPM decrease about 100 RPM. I really need some comfort here because it's getting pricey to keep pulling this thing out and I don't want to buy a new (reman) converter only to thrown my money down the rat hole. Steve

Grossgary, you haven't met MY son-in-law. He get's Patriot missiles to shoot down scuds and more but drove his 280Z for years with a screw driver in the throttle to keep the choke plate open. I'm just glad he found it. Steve

Well we solved the problem. NEVER IGNORE THE BASICS. The number 2 cylinder plug wire had somehow come unattached from the plug. Bizarre if you think about it as it's been untouched since the engine was installed several thousand miles ago...go figure. I would have caught it if I had been on location but my son in law is a software engineer and not mechanically inclined and he missed it. As soon as I had him start it in absolute darkness it was clear that there was an arc to ground in proximity of the cylinder 2 connection at the coil. Removing the cylinder 1 wire from the coil stopped the arc (no discharge of the field from that coil because ground is removed) proving an open to ground on the cylinder 2 wire. Simple investigation of the number 2 wire found the problem. Reconnection of the wire and the car runs better than ever. I agree the plug wire must not be in the greatest shape and that they need replaced or the arc could not have occured through the insulation of the number 2 wire to ground. I always over complicate things. Again, NEVER FORGET THE BASICS. Thanks to all. Steve

What I DON'T understand is how resetting the PCM can temporarily "cure" the problem. If the coil or plug wires, or in fact, any of the ignition components were the cause wouldn't the problem persist despite resetting the PCM? After all, the PCM does not actually control the state of the coil, and certainly not the plugs or wires. I'm baffled, but leaning toward something other than ignition now. I had some idle air control system problems which I thought I had fixed with another idle air control valve, and ultimately a different PCM. But that was months ago. As I recall however, the PCM has a limp mode that reduces a fast idle RPM condition by disabling spark to (hmmmm cylinder 2?) in order to prevent engine damage. Problem with that is that they report no such high idle state to manifest that action by the PCM. Stumped!

I'm really not into fixing cars by phone..heh heh... but my daughter has my wife's 96 Legacy Outback 2.5 out of state right now and is experiencing a misfire on cylinder 2 with roughness in idle and acceleration. DTC P0302 verified by OBDII scan at local car parts place. Idle speed control appears to be working correctly or so they say. The engine is a CCR rebuild with about 20K on it which means the plugs were new on rebuild. This is not a bogus check engine light but an actual misfire, or so it appears due to the rough running engine. I had the son in law disconnect the battery to clear the PCM and the problem went away, engine ran smoothly, but after driving some distance the problem returned. Here's my questions. 1. Since the problem resolved temporarily after clearing the PCM and the engine ran smoothly I must assume that the plug and plug wire is ok. Right? 2. Since it's only one cylinder misfiring I must assume that it's not the coil because as I understand it the coil fires to simultaneously to cylinders 1 and 2so I if it were bad I should expect misfires on both cylinders or at least constant misfires on either 1 or 2 that would not resolve after clearing the PCM. Right? Of course the output of the coil to the number 2 spark plug wire could be intermittently bad. 3. Since the coil fires simultaneously to cylinders 1 and 2 could I swap those wires on the coil to see if the problem follows the swap and moves from a cylinder 2 to a cylinder 1 misfire code? 4. The igniter is not at fault because it functions correctly after clearing the PCM even though the problem reoccurs after some driving. Right? 5. The MAF sensor is not at fault because all cylinders are not affected. Right? HELP!

That's an interesting thought. I did a search on reflash but I'm not finding the info you mentioned. Can you steer me to the discussion? Steve

Well boys, here's the outcome. At the recommendation of the fine folks at CCR, I discussed this with the tech specializing in emissions service at Strictly Automotive; a Subaru specialty shop in Denver. We both agreed that since Subaru requires that the duty cycle be set after installing a new IAC that adjustment must do something but we also agreed that the computer will compensate for any adjustment made to bring the idle (if possible) to the desired rpm. So that said, I felt that the only thing adjustment might do is to change the manner in which the IAC valve responds rather than the ultimate outcome of the response in terms of idle speed. So, taking the upper plate position of the old IAC valve as a target setting I scribed the original position and adjusted the new (used) IAC valve to that setting. Tadahhhhhhhhhhh... no service engine light, but I didn't like the rate of response to loading (ac on/off etc.) so I tweaked it somewhat in both directions of travel testing again each time. It is very sensitive to change... a little movement goes a long way. Still no fault light. Test drove it with multiple shut downs and repeated highway to stop sign stop and go situations with no fault light. I don't know for certain, but I think it may be solved. If it isn't, my next step is to find someone who can read the duty cycle with a scanner and set it to the factory spec. If that fails we'll look at the throttle position sensor. I'll let ya know if it fails again. Thanks to all for input. Steve

I love seafoam too and use it for many different applications. However, I suspect that the valve is not hanging up. Everything seems to be working fine except that when the engine is fully warmed up the idle is just a tiny bit low. Remember this is a clean and smoothly operating valve installed a couple of weeks ago.

96 Legacy outback 2.5 auto. History: Had a high idle condition. Cleaned IACV with no improvement; removed and tested IACV and it passed resistance tests but it was "reluctant" (didn't move consistently with stimulus signals applied to the pins). Replaced valve with used but clearly correctly functioning valve. Improved idle but still not right. Wiring tested ECM to IACV and proven good. ECM output voltage tests indicated defective ECM. ECM replaced with used one and tremendous improvement with idle at or near spec. BUT, it will occasionaly set code P0515 Idle Air Control. Now once the vehicle is fully warmed and has been driven for ~10 (or sometimes much more) miles when coming to a stop from highway speed the idle drops to 500 RPM and the computer sets code P0515. The vehicle runs great and idle is smooth as silk. I wonder if I need to somehow adjust the IACV I put in. I note that the metal plate on the top of the new one isn't in the exact same position as the original. The manual says it should be adjusted for 45% duty cycle. (greek to me folks). So my question arises as this: If I adjust the plate to the same position as the original will it make a difference and perhaps solve this problem? Steve

I believe I'll start a new thread for this idle air control valve duty cycle adjustment question. Steve

Which sensor?

I found the connector and checked and cleaned all contacts. Unfortunately no change. I believe the problem is that once the engine has warmed it may be idling just a little slow. Sometimes it drops to 500 rpm on the tach. As I have changed the Idle Air Control Valve I wonder if the duty cycle is set right, and if not, if that's causing the fault. I don't know how to set this but I'm wondering if I set it just as the OEM one was set by loosening the screws on the top and moving the plate to match the position of the original if it will make a difference. Any ideas?? Steve

Porcupine I must admit I haven't checked it yet. Help me with the geography if you can. The illustration shown in the thread "appears" to place it forward in the engine compartment. I can only conclude that would be under the intake, but I don't recall any connectors of that type when I had it off for the engine swap. Is is possibly one of the set of 2 or 3 mounted on the aft passenger side of the engine? Steve

Well boys this thing is kicking my tail. I changed the ECM and cured the high idle condition. On cold start it idles at about 1500 till it begins to warm then slowly drops to 750 to 1000. Holds smooth idle at about 750 in gear and adjusts for load with AC, headlights, etc. BUT, it still occasionally throws a CEL code. Sometimes Vehicle Speed Sensor P0500 other times Idle Speed Control P0505. This underway at highway speed and without any apparent deviation in the idle speed system. The engine is running better than ever. The speedometer works fine. Of course I clear(ed) the codes with my OBDII scan device. Any ideas? Steve