aiiadict
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Posts posted by aiiadict
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The connectors consist of a single wire from the ECU, and a ground wire. So the proper terminal (there's two) on the ECU gets grounded and that tells the ECU it should be in Ucheck, Dchech, Readmem, or Clearmem.
I don't recall which wires go to the connectors however. I may get a chance to look at one of my harnesses later tonight, but I'm not sure.
GD
Looking at the pinout of the ECU, the proper terminal for U(ser) or D(ealer) check aren't obvious. The FSM doesn't include pinouts for the test connectors either.
Thanks for the information about them being grounded to indicate which mode.
If you could put a meter on your test connectors and see which connector goes to which pin, I would appreciate it very much!
Rich
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the ECU. . There's also several grounds for it -
GD
According to my own tracing of the wiring, all grounds to the ECU are through the manifold harness. There's a wire on the manifold harness that goes under one of the manifold bolts. So it gets ground from the manifold... Trace the wires back to the intermediate connector (the big one)... then back to the ECU. ECU is getting ground from the manifold.
Rich
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section 2-7, page 22
What does "connected" and "disconnected" refer to? (connection to Ground? connection to +12v?)
Anyone have the proper wire colors to disconnect/disconnect?
OK with ~trilinear SPFI conversion page, I see that there are 2 connectors for READ and two connectors for TEST. Connected means the two connectors are connected :-P
Now I need to figure out which wires on the ECU go to the 4 connectors.
Rich
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I think this is one of the places I'm having troubles in the manual.
section 2-7, page 22
test modes:
Ucheck - "user mode", tests items related to start and drive
Dcheck - "dealer mode", tests all items
read Memory
clear memory
relationships between modes and connectors:
d=disconnected, c = connected
------------------------------------------------
User = ign on, read connector d, test connector d
Read = ign on, read connector c, test connector d
Dealer = ign on,read connector d, test connector c
Clear = ign on, read connector c, test connector c
What does "connected" and "disconnected" refer to? (connection to Ground? connection to +12v?)
Anyone have the proper wire colors to disconnect/disconnect?
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Once you put the ECU in test mode
I think this is one of the places I'm having troubles in the manual. The procedure to go to dcheck, memory check, etc is worded in a way that is very difficult for me to understand.
I left the test wires hanging off the back of the ECU, I need to figure out which one does WHAT.
on ECU:
pin 3 = Red, Test4
pin 10 = Yellow, Line end cord output
pin 11 = L, line end cord output
pin 12 = RL, line end cord output
pin 37, LgR, Test mode connector (used at line end only)
pin 32 BR, Test mode connector (used at line end only)
pin 31, Br, Test mode connector (used at line end only)
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I have EA81. It has EA82 SPFI on it.
What are the specs for timing this thing? RPM at idle, and timing at idle?
I read tiny bits of information about "freezing" the advance on an SPFI ECU, IE like removing vacuum lines from vacuum advance. Does anyone know which pin on ECU goes to ?gnd? or ?+12v?. This isn't the stock harness, and doesn't have the "test" connectors.
RPM of idle and idle timing would be very appreciated.
Rich
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how to set timing
timing light
EA81
timing specification
(hopefully that will help someone in a future search)
I have EA81. It has EA82 SPFI on it.
What are the specs for timing this thing? RPM at idle, and timing at idle?
and then... just to test and make sure it's ok for the SPFI setup (IE the computer controlled advance/retard), what RPM should I bring it up to, and what should the timing advance to?
what would be considered unsafe? IE predetonation, or crackin the connecting rods in half.
While I'm on the subject: Why does it spark BEFORE TOP DEAD CENTER? If it sparks before dead center, the compression stroke hasn't completed yet. Spark, ignite... compression stroke is trying to push piston up, combustion is trying to push piston down... metal under stress breaks.
Rich
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So this alternator has an internal voltage regulator?
I poked around in the forums some more and found that all subaru alternators after 81 have internal regulator.
BAT to + on battery (some say through fusible link)
thick wire (top of T on connector) to switched ignition
thin wire on white connector goes to idiot light circuit (a light bulb and a resistor, in the dash)
Rich
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On the flip side, the big wire BAT is the output terminal that goes to the battery.
On the plastic connector, the thick wire is the field sense wire, that energizes the alternator when the ignition is on.
The thin wire goes to the idiot light on the dash.
Thanks!
the car (83gl) must have had a relay supplying +v to the combined "field sense" and batteryoutput wire. Otherwise the fieldsense would always have power and drain the battery with ign off.
So this alternator has an internal voltage regulator?
Rich
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I'm finishing this up.
73 automatic
the heads needed replacing... I looked inside and the crank needed to be reground too...
I looked at prices. This is a 1700cc engine. heads $500 apiece. compare that to my usual vw: $120 for new head for 1600cc. So it's gonna be at least $1000 for heads... grind crank is about $100. new bearings $100
my neighbor had a 83 subaru GL wagon as a parts car. He only needed some stuff out of the dash, and the carb. He sold me the ea81 engine for a reasonable price. I put new bearings, rings in it. new gaskets. I used the milling machine to make an adaptor to a VW carb. It ran horribly.
then I read about SPFI conversion, and found a few SPFI cars at the junkyard. I converted the EA81 to SPFI. Runs great.
I had to put an extender bars on the engine, so the stock rear engine crossbar on the VW could be used. an adaptor from KEP (still don't know if it's good... I don't think that they'd fabricated an EA81 to VWautomatic adaptor prior to mine). Also had to make a frame for the radiator to hang in.
Tomorrow: test drive
Rich
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Wow, I'm sorry I missed this thread being off the board for a while. Sounds like a lot going on there!
Good to hear that it runs though. I'd be interested to see what happens once the TPS idle switch is set up properly.
I'll post pics of everything later this evening. I haven't tested the idle yet. I adjusted the idle switch in the TPS with a meter. It's ON with no throttle, turns off with throttle. It definitely was NOT set correctly before (it was never turning ON)
Rich
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If the TPS is off, it will have difficulty idling. If the IAC is in poor shape, it will have trouble idling. If you have any vacuum leaks, it will have trouble idling.
anyhow, congrats and good luck.
I checked the idle switch. it was definitely not operating properly. I hand adjusted it so that it CLOSEs when throttle is released fully.
I'm cleaning up the wiring a bit before I try to start again.
Vacuum leaks: there should be none. I got a full set of good vacuum lines and they're all connected as they should be.
IAC was removed, cleaned, and reinstalled facing the drivers side (so it isn't in way of dist.).
Thanks again.
Rich
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On the flip side, the big wire BAT is the output terminal that goes to the battery.
On the plastic connector, the thick wire is the field sense wire, that energizes the alternator when the ignition is on.
The thin wire goes to the idiot light on the dash.
Hi,
This is the information I was looking for... Thank you.
I don't understand why the alternator's "field sense" and "voltage output" terminals would be tied together. The subaru must have this wire running through a relay?
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I can't find a diagram anywhere, and I've searched through the threads here with no luck...
EA81 alternator.
there are two wires. 1 thick white wire, 1 white/redstripe.
there are actually 3 wires, but two have been combined (by Previous owner)
2 conductor white connector (plug in)... this has a thick white wire coming off of it, and a thin white/redstripe
1 connector labeled BAT, with thick white wire coming off it (held on by nut, covered by rubber boot)
the thick white wire from the white connector is joined to the white wire coming from the BAT connector.
How do I wire this thing?
Is there an internal voltage regulator?
(links to wiring diagram would be appreciated!)
thanks,
Rich
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Success!
After playing with the 91 loyale ECU for a LONG time, I accidently dropped my hot-start wire into the open computer. No more 91 ECU :-P
I had tested both ECU's on the bench, with the 91 wiring harness and the 91 distributor. The 91 ECU would make the injector click when spinning the 91 dist. The 87 would NOT click with the 91 distributor.
So I plug in the 87, clip the 87 dist. to the harness. I get spray when I spin the distributor! The spray is VERY visible, so if you have any troubles starting, crank with the intake boot off and YOU WILL SEE SPRAY.
Ok, cut the connector off the 91 distributor. Same with the 87. Solder the 87 distributor to the 91 connector. put it all together... no run!
Check spray... none.
check spark... none.
ECU is reporting crank angle pos error.
So, it turns out the connector off the 91 distributor is bad.
I remove it from the 87 dist...
I use a 4 prong ?headlight? connector that was junk out of the harness.
solder it up. tape it up. put it in the engine.
crank..... pop pop. crank.... pop pop. Not backfiring, but firing and popping out the exhaust! It sounds like it's trying to start.
ok, connect the throttle cable, go to the drivers seat. push gas pedal half way and crank.... RUN!
It runs and sounds great!
it won't idle. This could be that the 91 AFM is not compatible with the 87 ECU (I'm going back to the yard and getting the 87 AFM) airflowmeter... both are the "hot wire" type, not flapper valves.
I also need to make sure the idle switch is operating correctly.
it took hours to track... I wonder if the 91 ECU would have worked if I had found the problem in the Crank pos sensor before I fried the ECU ?
thanks for everyones help!
Rich
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The FSM should tell you how to test the injector firing signal.
GD, this system drops the firing signal down to the appropriate voltage inside the ECU?
I cant find the injector firing signal test in the manual....
unless there is a resistor (very small) wrapped up in the harness, the ECU does all the work...
Rich
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Injectors don't run at 12v - that's why you have to use a noid light to test injector fireing on TBI and MPFI. but I AM sure you are making this much more difficult than it needs to be.
GD
Hi,
What is a NOID LIGHT? Is it something I can make?
Do you know what voltage level I should get at the injector during START?
I hope I'm making it more difficult than it needs to be! Because I've tested this thing over and over again. But I am learning how FI works, which was the main goal of the project.
I'm going to go through the entire section 2-7 today, and do *ALL* of the tests to see if I can find what's wrong.
Rich
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>Injectors don't run at 12v - that's why you have to use a noid light to test
>injector fireing on TBI and MPFI.
Ok... that's good, because they definitely are not getting 12v
>I'm not sure what 12v would do to the injector - quite possibly damage
>them, but I AM sure you are making this much more difficult than it needs to
> be.
12v for very short periods of time doesn't appear to effect them.
>Do the ECU power and ground checks in the 89 partial FSM pdf.
I've gone over every pin in the system. The only work I did on the harness is pulling out headlights, etc. Between the ECU connector and the intermediate connectors/sensor connectors, the harness is %100 original.
>You have wireing issues. The injectors do not fail and neither do the ECU's.
That's why I've been testing the wires :-) The injectors do in fact fail. The first one I got from the junkyard was definitely bad. I hope the ECU is ok.
>Your problem likely stems from your complete reworking of the wireing - you >should have done that *after* you got it started.
I didn't completely rework the wireing though...
I've verified that the +,- pins to injector are properly wired, not shorted, injector is within resistance range, injector is insulated...
thanks for replies!
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have you checked the ecu output for the injector signal while ignition is in start?
Yes. ECU output on injector power supply pins = 0 to 2 volts while cranking.
You did specifically mention checking the injector voltage then, but i couldn't find if you said you checked the ECU pin for voltage while cranking, too...
Tested at both injector, and at ECU. While cranking, 0 to 2 volts at both.
To the best of my knowledge, there is no "dropping resistor" or anything else in line between the injector and the ECU; but the injector may receive a grounding signal from the ECU and get constant positive voltage elsewhere.. It may be that you've got your injector wired backwards.
injector power supply pins on ECU:
48 = negative supply
43 = positive supply
48 is always connected. 43 (positive) is switched on/off by the ECU
I searched the FSM and GD's SPFI conversion writeup briefly, and couldn't discover an answer to the polarity of the signal from the ECU to the injector, but I suggest also checking for continuity between ground and the injector "firing" pin from the ECU.. it may be that the ECU is switching ground to the injector when you are looking for it to switch 12V+.
pins 48 and 43 show polarity of Injector power supply.
at the injector, RW = positive, RB = negative. The wiring harness is unmodified between the ECU and the injector (it is as it was in the loyale when I pulled the system)
Injector always has GND. the "firing pin" from the ECU (pin 43) is +12v.
I've tested everything I can think of so far. I'll test throttle idle switch tomorrow. perhaps it is sending "NOT IDLE" and "extremely low throttle" (IE, below "acceptable" range.. which may cause the ECU to tell the injector to open TINY ammount (2v worth), which is under-rating for injector to open.)..all because throttle sensor is sending too low signal for throttle position.... Maybe. I'll cross my fingers :-)
Rich
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there's probably an "amplifier" transistor leading to the +V side of Injector+ on the ECU (pin 43).. I wonder if that burnt out somehow. I'm going to test for +12v on the +injector supply inside the ECU and see what I get. maybe the connector on the end of the harness, or on the ECU has failed... I'll find out.
Rich
I looked inside the ECU, there is a transistor running to the Injector power supply output pin +. Makes sense, I get - GND at the injector even with IGN off.
I try:
+12, gnd to end of wiring harness (to connector that goes to ECU), pins 43, 48. Injector sprays.
+12, gnd to inside ECU, so testing the connection between ECU and the smallest connector. spray from the injector.
ok analog meter on pins 43, 48 inside ECU. Ignition on. computer flashing code 5 (from what I read, this is specification code?). Apply +12 to START on ECU / starter solenoid.
0 to +2 volts coming from ECU, going to injector.
Computer is flashing code 14, "injector: abnormal output".
Can anyone tell me if this is normal injector voltage? It could be the slow response time of my meter giving me false readings.
note: injector will not get any power if crank position sensor doesn't sense movement... IE you have to either pull it out and spin by hand, or leave it in and crank engine!
Rich
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any tips on cleaning or fixing the damaged injector (I'll go get a new-
used one at the yard tomorrow)
got it
New injector sprays good when power applied, stops spray when power removed.
previously, with the original sticking injector, the injector got stuck on, but I don't know if it was under power when it happened. the fuel pump could have pumped the line up to high enough pressure that the failed injector snapped open and let the pressure out...
with new injector:
try:
apply +-12v,
result:
spray
try:
apply +-supply to computer, ign on
apply +12 to START on ECU
result:
pump relay clicks on/off and pump turns on/off while START = 12v
injector = 0v (with analog meter.. the digital one takes too long to take a reading)
Ok, so now the injector isn't getting power..
injector resistance = 1.7ohms
injector + harness resistance (at ECU 43,48 RedBlack and RedWhite) = 1.7 ohms
so, good continuity, no short. harness isn't adding resistance to injector circuit.
No resistance between injector terminals and case (it's insulated properly)
on page 50, section 2-7 of the FSM, it says I should replace the ECU..
How did it go bad? did the sticking injector cause the ECU to fail?
there's probably an "amplifier" transistor leading to the +V side of Injector+ on the ECU (pin 43).. I wonder if that burnt out somehow. I'm going to test for +12v on the +injector supply inside the ECU and see what I get. maybe the connector on the end of the harness, or on the ECU has failed... I'll find out.
Rich
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I'm looking at the schematics, and I can't see how fuel gets into idle
circuit. with throttle valve closed, the only air entering the manifold
is through the bypass valve. the inlet to the manifold is below the
throttle valve. The only place I see that fuel enters is from ABOVE
the throttle valve...
how does gasoline enter manifold at idle?
I see... tiny hole that the idle adjustment screw regulates flow.. It
connects the throttle body above the throttle valve to the air bypass
chambers...
I have this wired correctly. I don't know about all of the smog stuff
(I cut ALL connectors off the harness, except for the ECU, and plugs
that go to sensors)
I'm going to need to add a speed sensor to the VW, so I can have
the ECU shut of gas while coasting (this is an awesome feature, especially
since the VW is automatic)
I did this project to (finally) acquaint myself with FI setups. This system
is really cool! Easy to understand. The wiring seems scary at first, but
if you spend some time on it, it becomes less confusing. All the wires do
is connect the ECU and the sensors/injector. Some go to the smog equip.
+to ECU, - to manifold (the - took me a while to trace :-), + IG switched to
red/lavender. Fuel pump grounded, fuel pump relay to +IG switched, coil to +ig switched. START on ECU to start signal (crank engine), and GROUND THE COIL.
In a few docs' Ive read, people claim that the coil gets supplied with - to make it fire. This is NOT true.
The coil is grounded to engine (connect a wire between bracket and engine case). There are two 2 conductor connectors on the Dist. 1 connector has Black to capacitor, cap to ground (radio spike absorber), the yel of this connector goes to tachometer, which isn't necessary for ECU operation as far as I can see.
The amplifier transistor does "amplify" the low current ECU output, but the transistor is actually used as a low to high current switch, IE all on or all off.
the other connector is to the "amplifier transistor". Must be similar to PNP transistor. One wire to + switched ignition. One wire to the ECU (ignition control). The wire to the ECU is coil control. the ECU sends out a low current signal on this line. The amplifier transistor "amplifies" this, and allows +12 (from +IG) to flow to through the coil, HIGH current.
So that would make the +IG connector the collector... Emitter to the ECU, and the base to the + power of the coil.
(been a while since I took electronics in college)
Rich
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EA81 (rebuilt), in a VW bus.
SPFI was cheap. So I stuck it on the engine.
SPFI was from EA82, 1991 loyale.
fuelpump, airflowmeter, distributor, ECU, harness.
(coil came from different SPFI sub)
Rich
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Gloyale wrote:
>Fuel pressure high enough? inspect for clogged injector?
I am having similar issues with 1991 loyale SPFI.. I could get it to fire
once in a while... more often with pedal to floor.
If spark is there, and timed correctly, then you have fuel issues.
Fuel issues:
1)fuel pump not operating
2)fuel pump not up to pressure
3)injector
injector:
1)no power
2)bad solenoid
3)bad seals
to check: put 12v to ECU start pin, with coil wire disco'd from dist.
you should hear the fuel pump spin. have someone else touch the pump and verify it's running.
you should also get some spray in the intake. leave the throttle closed, and you should see the fuel spray onto top of throttle valve.
no spray: no start.
put a meter on the injector leads (pull the rubber cover away from the top)
put +12 to start on ECU
you should get +12 on injector leads. if no, harness or ECU is bad
if you get power to injector, and no spray, you either have 1)bad fuel delivery or 2)stuck injector
(I know all this because I found a (the) stuck injector today in my SPFI)
Rich
EA82 SPFI injector question
in Old Gen.: 80's GL/DL/XT/Loyales...
Posted
Ok... It idles now (after making sure TPS idle turns ON when no throttle...sounds good) but sits at about 800rpm for about 30 seconds, then runs up to about 900rpm for about 30 seconds, then goes back down to about 600 and runs a bit rough, then back up to 800...
I'll be adjusting the TPS switch today. I still need to figure out which test connector goes to which ECU pin so I can time it correctly.
Rich