psychsurf

Ok, sounds like it is time to dig up into the dash and play with that relay a bit... Mabye it just had a bad ground or something? Add relays to the list of things I know nothing about. I've been working every day, so I haven't had much time to play with it. But interestingly enough, I haven't had a single problem with it since it came back from the mechanics. Not one. Starts, runs, not CEL, no lurching, no nothing. On the progress side, I'm 99% I've got the knock sensor issue licked. It was so forehead-slappingly simple I almost hesitate to mention it. But I will, just the same. I went to check the connection on the KS, and it was loose. Like really loose, like it came right off the sensor without any resistance at all. So I fiddled with it and fiddled with it and fiddled with it... Finally I noticed the o-ring that goes around the top of the KS. And I noticed that when I was trying to seat the connector, it was stopping right at the O-ring... A little grease and a LOT (like a LOT!) of downward pressure, and it pushed down that last 1/4" to fully seat. I disconnected the battery for a half-hour to clear the codes (this IS one of the models that works on, right?), and tomorrow I'm going to go run all my errands in it and see if any of the codes come up again. I'll keep you all updated, and thanks again for the help!

What about what the mechanic said about ECU output to the oscilloscope? Does that sound like a legit thing, or blowing smoke? Its funny, it is starting and running as good as ever now, like it never had a problem at all. Gonna make it hard to figure out what went wrong before. I actually figured out one thing today, though. The connection to the knock sensor is really loose. I went to check it, and it came off the sensor with almost zero resistance. I can't imagine it's making a good contact to that pin on the sensor. Figure I can just crush that barrel connector a little to make it grab the pin better? On the downside, I'm getting major stress from my wife about this car still. Not a good decision from a marital bliss perspective. Seriously, anyone want to buy it?

Ok, got it home no problem... Not a hiccup along the way. I'm scratching my head. Anyone know if that ECU stuff was bogus? Anyone want to buy a subaru?

Ok, called a tow truck and went to go pick it up. Got there and the shop owner is like, "well you could just take a chance on driving it home". I said, but I thought wasn't running? "well, we had the computer hooked up the oscilloscope and it was outputting nothing. Then we tapped on it, and it started outputting. So we just turned the key and tapped the ECU until it started. Need a new ECU, probably got a loose transistor or something" I say, are you sure it wasn't a short somewhere under the dash? Nope, definitely the computer. Now it's starting just fine, so I'm back to get my wife out of bed to give me a ride to pick it up. The big question is, does what the mechanic says about tapping on the "bad" ECU make sense? Or is it as simple as I just got worked by an unscrupulous mechanic for an hour of "diagnostic" time?

Thank you, I appreciate the encouragement. I'm certain it is something simple, it is just the diagnostic process that intimidates me. I'm more of a concrete mechanic, "head gasket blown? Let me get a torque wrench!". Electrical issues just make my butt pucker. Now, to get it home... Tow rope, tow dolly, or tow truck?

By the way, what's the CTS?

Thank you. I'll try to arrange to tow it back here tomorrow and start picking it apart. Wish my manual was here already, but anyway. You're probably right about it not being the ECU. It'll hopefully wind up being something simple. How would a dead ECU present itself, anyway?

Yeah, I know, you guys told me so too. *smacks forehead* Why did I get it then? Well, it sounded like a good car with all the right parts (engine, tranny, clutch, axles, etc...) replaced or rebuilt within the last few thousand miles. The engine had 5k after a rebuild on a brand-new block. It didn't sound like it needed attention after years of neglect. I figured I'd be safe from what I had researched to be the known mechanical issues for this engine. It sounded like a well-loved car from an honest seller. I thought all I needed to do was get the AC working. And as far as I can tell, it is mechanically very strong. It just has some electrical gremlins I need to hunt down. But yeah, I won't be taking it to mexico or anywhere else at this point. This is a lesson well-learned. And yeah, I drove it in there... But it was also on a day that it was doing something new (the bucking) and had left me cranking the starter at a stoplight for a few minutes for the very first time, so I figured anything was possible. As for the mechanic looking at it, I honestly don't know anything about any of the mechanics here. The shop has a good reputation, but I don't know them from Adam. I'm generally just a trusting person. He did seem familar with the subaru in that he knew right off that was the year they made all the changes to the electrical system, for whatever that's worth. About leaving the test connectors connected, will it not run in that state? It wasn't doing the 1-second pulses I read about being what was supposed to happen with the green connectors connected. I let him check it out, and he said everything points to the ECU, that all the codes that came up could have been symptomatic of a dying ECU. Does that sound right to anyone else? He says either that or some major wonkiness in the electrical system. How do I check for a bad ECU? I guess now that I'm done with my whining and stuff, I still really need some help to get this girl running again, now more than ever. I definitely made a mistake buying this car, but now I need to deal with it. Please, any input is appreciated.

OH MY GOD!!! This just keeps getting worse and worse!! I went to pick the car up from the mechanic who diagnosed my AC issues, and it WON'T EVEN START! It cranks and cranks and cranks just fine, but won't kick over. This is in a car that two days ago would fire up when the starter barely engaged. The mechanic hit it with a test light real quick and said it was acting the like the ground was switching on and off randomly when the key was on. They hadn't called to tell me they were having trouble starting it because it was acting that way from the time I dropped it off. I have no idea what that means, so guess what? I'm leaving it with the mechanic and paying him another $100 to figure out what's wrong with it this time. I've seriously never had a car take a dump on me so incredibly quickly. It went from making a 600 mile trip with little more than a busy CEL to sitting dead in a mechanic's parking lot in the space of only FOUR DAYS. The worst part, and the part that currently has me riled up, my wife is relentlessly chewing my rump roast for flying 600 miles to buy a pig-in-a-poke that I didn't know the first thing about, taking a stranger's word that it was in great shape, and spending all this money fixing up a car that isn't even worth what I paid for it to begin with. And you know what? I can't say a damn thing in my own defense, because she's right! It was a stupid move, and now I'm reaping the consequences. Yeah, I can get it running and then sell it, that's probably what I'll do... And if I'm really lucky I'll get back what I paid for it. All the work I'm doing is just bonus for the next owner. I bought this car to drive to mexico for my surf trips... Think I can trust it for 3000 mile trips into the great unknown now? Yeah, don't think so. Screwed.

I'm doing this much for my own reference and research, but you can't accuse me of not contributing. So, since I couldn't find it anwhere else here, and searching the internet for this part was an exercise in extreme frustration... The part numbers for the knock sensor on the EA82T are as follows: ACDELCO - 213-2325 Found on autopartsgiant.com @ $69.38 and oehq.com @$61.02 and brightauto.com @ $56.00 Standard Motor Parts - KS89 on autopartsgiant.com @ $57.38 and partsamerica.com @ $87.99 Niehoff - WA1715 on partsamerica.com @$87.99 Key words: Knock sensor detonation sensor part number part# 1987 gl ea82t loyale turbo Hopefully this will save someone some trouble down the line.

Well, they said they were loading it up with oil, dye and coolant for the test...

Ahh, ok, I got it... So a good compromise that wouldn't involve buying a bunch of "never use again" tools would probably be to just put the system together myself, then just have the shop vacuum it and charge it with the freon for me? And its already been converted to the r134, so that shouldn't be a concern, right?

Wouldn't they have done that when they filled and checked the system at the shop today?

I thought about that... Don't I need special equipment to put the gas in though? Like pressure regulators, oil meters, all that jazz? Or can I just grab some of those "refill" cans with the little gauge on them from the parts store?

Been dead since before summer. Long enough. Not sure when it was converted.

I've done my share of wrenching on my cars, but I've never worked on A/C stuff before. So when the car I just got came with some kind of problem with the AC, I sent it to the shop to be diagnosed. Bad compressor. "No problem, they're a little tough to find, but we'll track one down. Its only $1100 to fix it." Ha! "Well, what if I bring you a compressor, mr shop guy, how much then?" "Around $350-400 for the labor and seals and stuff." Obviously I still don't want to spend that much, so how do I get out of this cheaper? I think I found a reman compressor online, so that's taken care of. How much of the labor can I do myself? They had to charge the system to find the leaking compressor shaft, so I'm assuming it won't have to be evacuated to get any moisture out, right? Could I just crack it open and slap on the new compressor and have someone fill it for me? It's already been converted to 134 freon or whatever. Do I really need the "recommended" new drier? What seals do I absolutely have to have? What else should I take into account here?

You know, that was my first thought, after having had a couple of cars that killed fuel pumps... Even scarier, it was my WIFE'S first thought too! Heaven help me if it is, I'm already getting an endless supply of "I told you so"s for even buying this car! So, then a bad fuel pump won't throw a code? And how to test it? I know, time to search again...

I managed to coax it into bucking one time on the way to the mechanic's today (for the AC, the only think I won't mess with). It really feels more like an electrical than fuel thing. It's like someone is simply turning the key on and off a couple of times real quickly. Complete and instant power loss followed by complete return... And repeat. But it was weird how it was the worst at the bottom of the tank. I'll check into the fuel system after I get my code gremlins sorted out after the shop tells me what's wrong with my AC system. Damn I have a lot of little things to figure out in the next couple of weeks. Anyone want to sell me a knock sensor for a 1987 EA82T?

How high-end do you want to go? I play with veneers a lot making surfboards, and I've often thought about using a stick-on veneer to woodify a wagon. If you've got one that came that way stock, it seems like it would be worth the time and expense to do it up right. You're making the wife mad already, right? Here some stuff: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2213 Some of that on a very well-prepared body surface, with a good clear-coat over the top of it would be orders of magnitude better looking than a decal. Not cheap though, and you'd have to cut it yourself... But since you're looking at custom decals to get it back to stock anyway. It would totally rock, I'm just sayin'.

Ok, pulled the codes again, they're the same as yesterday and the thread I started then... Guess I should have just posted this to that thread... Anyway, they are 11, 13, 21, 22, 23. Would any of these be responsible for that complete loss of power bucking when warm? I remember now that it did it once as I was getting to work last night, so it would have been run about the same amount of time at that point. Sorry about the two threads, a moderator is welcome to merge them for me. So, anyone have any input on this new and much more disturbing development? It was just a nuisance light before, but now it's a real problem!

As if I didn't need one more thing to mess with... 1987 gl turbo ea82 yadda yadda. Headed back home this morning, was about 29 degrees as I started my 40 minute commute. Warmed it up, took off and was thinking, "wow, it's really running great!". No sign of a CEL, no problems at all, turbo turboing with gusto. CEL only flickered once, about 25 minutes in. Once I got to town and hit the stoplights though, it started acting funny. I'd take off, and it would buck a couple of times as I started to accelerate out of my upshifts, the CEL blinking in time to the bucking. It did that through the first couple of lights, then on the third light bucked hard twice and died. It was really hard to get started again, and when I did I had to keep the revs above 1500 to keep it running. At this point my tank was showing just under 1/8 of fuel, my little red indicator had just appeared. I pulled into the next gas station, filled it up with 12.5 gal of gas (not a full tank, I was far from running on fumes), and no more problems. So... What the hell am I looking at now? Is this a fuel pump now? Kind of seems like dying fuel pumps I've seen in the past, but wanted to get some further opinions. Could this have anything to do with the knock sensor I'm already throwing codes for? At the time, the CEL only flashed in time with the bucking I described, but after I filled up it came on and stayed on with code 22 flashing.

Ok, I'm going to try to crack that nut this afternoon... Now where the heck to you get a knock sensor if this one is bad? And how do you test the sensor? Looking around online I only found one place selling them, and I had to tell the parts search function that I was looking for a 1988 knock sensor, plus they want like $80 for it! Surely there must be some other place to source these? Oh, and by the way... I've spent just about all night at work looking up everything I can find here about the knock sensor and the temp sensor. When I read about some of the voodoo problems people have run into with this stuff, it just makes me feel ill... Especially knowing that the PO and his mechanic were well-versed and well-experienced with ea82 subarus, but left it with this code. I'm hoping (fingers crossed!) it was as simple as not wanting to spend $80 on a new KS.

What's up, cougar? How cold is anchorage right now? I'm from Homer, way back when. Don't miss it a bit these days! Thanks for your reply, cougar. It actually crystalized some latent information in my head... Tell me if I got this right... The knock sensor, if activated and doing what a knock sensor is supposed to do, won't actually trip the CEL, right? It'll just retard the timing a little. So, since the CEL is indicating the knock sensor, there's really something wrong with the sensor or sensor circuit itself? For some reason, I had it in my head that the knock sensor code was coming up because it was detecting a knock!

If you think that a dealer's price on a comparable subaru is a better indication of market value than the ebay and craigslist prices... Well, you're just wrong. Market value is determined by the market, the people who are actually buying the cars. Look around at how many old subarus are changing hands through dealers compared to being sold by private individuals. I'm betting that the overwhelming majority of them are being sold person-to-person through classifieds, craigslist, ebay, etc... What that means is the market IS defined by those desperate people trying to unload their rusty old roos on the internet, and those sources are ABSOLUTELY the very best indicator of true market value. Whatever THOSE same people are willing to pay for your car, that's what it's "worth". Now, since you originally posted looking for advice on how to value your car for insurance purposes, I don't know why you are even making this argument. You got your info on how to try to substantiate your claimed value to your insurance company. You were told a couple of times that you need to document what you have into it, get it appraised, and present that to them. It almost seems like you got your feelings hurt by the people who scoffed at your project, and are trying to make a point about what the car is "worth". I wouldn't bother. You know what it is worth to you. You now know you have to convince an insurance company of what it is worth. You also now know that it isn't worth nearly that much to the subaru junkies here. Finally, the "market value" of your car isn't anywhere near what it is worth to you, but that doesn't matter, does it? You're going to have a very hard time justifying your expenditures on your car to anyone but yourself, so why are you trying so hard? You built it for yourself, just enjoy it.

If I had a ton of disposable income, I would probably very seriously consider building up an old gl into the ultimate "4x4 sleeper", just because I love tha soob. As for the original question, the answer is simple: It is worth what someone will give you for it. If that someone is the insurance company, you'll need every shred of documentation you can dig up to prove to them the value you want to assign it. Reciepts and values of all mods, and appraisals from multiple sources are your friend here. If you cover your bases that way, you'll maximize your "totalled" coverage from the insurance. As for "for sale by owner" value, again it is going to be whatever someone is willing to give you for it. Unless you just happen to find the right buyer at precisely the right time, you probably won't be able to sell it for more than a third of what you have into it. But it sounds like you're building it as a labor of love anyway, so I'm betting (hoping) you'll be keeping it.