notnowles

John, thanks for the follow up with the o ring information/links. The car seems fine at the moment, but it would make sense for the o ring to be a cause of the no start condition we had yesterday. I will post again if the symptoms return. Thanks again!

Thanks for the suggestions! I'm still not quite sure what to think... A whiff of starting fluid into the intake with the air cleaner open, and we were off to the races. Seems to run fine, still no codes stored. The car was tuned up at a local shop a few weeks back. One of my theories is that, perhaps, they installed too cold a plug, which fouled. That's just a theory, of course. I could pull a plug later when it cools down to see if they appear to be the correct ones. Haven't road tested it yet because it's rush hour here, but will do later. Hard for me to believe that it won't run fine though as I have had it running for quite a while, engine revved up, etc. Not sure just yet that the final chapter is in but at least it's not a broken timing chain as I first feared! Thanks again!

Hello again, So today I got to thinking about this no start problem and I asked the neighbor owner if the car had made any noise when it first refused to start. The answer was no. So, I decided that my initial fear diagnosis of a broken chain was wrong with a capital W. No way a chain could have snapped on a start attempt w/o some sort of clunk or bang. The engine does have an unusual sound when it is cranking, but maybe that's my imagination. I'm used to a G1 EJ22. I checked this 03 H6 for codes (have a scan tool) and none were stored. This seems odd to me. I tried cranking it for a bit and it actually fired once or twice rather lamely, but wouldn't start. So, sorry for saying that an H6 had suffered a major failure at 70K. Soobies are better than that! Now, to figure out what is wrong with it... I'll have to figure out how to check those coils and to get into the fuel line to see what's there. Thanks to all.

No, have not done a compression test. Not yet anyway. When I say it freewheels, I mean it sounds like it has a broken timing belt. Starter spins the engine w/o resistance. I can see the crank pulley spinning so I know the starter is working and the crank is turning. If you have ever heard an engine crank with a broken timing belt, you know what I mean. Engine turns much faster than normal with the starter due to compression loss. It's the way an engine sounds if you remove the plugs and crank the starter. Thanks for your input.

I am looking at this car for a neighbor friend. She went to start it this morning and it didn't. When I got there, we tried it again and it's obvious that the timing chain (I believe it's a chain?) must have broken because the engine just free wheels w/o any signs of compression. Car has just turned 70K. I am experienced with my old EJ22 engines with belts and no interference. Just wondering if anyone has had experience with this and can guide as to how bad it's likely to be. I am guessing that it probably has bent valves (?) Thanks for any help/guidance!

I have a 91 wagon. Found a later (94?) in a local yard with good front fenders. I realize there is an extra hole at the belt line for an amber light which my car doesn't have, but wondering if the fender is the same, otherwise. (Thinking maybe my belt line moulding would cover the hole). I can see the 95 fender is very different with a different shape cut out for the parking lamp. I find new fenders on line for 92 to 94, but nothing for 90 to 91. Any wisdom/experience here appreciated. Thanks!

Thank you, Nipper. I have read about the leaking plates but so far have been lucky with the 90 sedan. The only leaks it has at the moment are vc gaskets, which I will do soon. (I did all the front seals on it when I did the timing belt some years ago) The wagon is still an unknown commodity but I couldn't resist it because it's a desert southwest car so it has a really nice body. I have decided I like the G1 cars quite a bit and had been watching for a solid one, so coming across the wagon seemed like a stroke of fortune. The 90 sedan has seen lots of winter salt, and looks it... But it goes great!

Thank you very much, Grossgary. Great information to have! One of the reasons I'm interested in the spare tranny is that I noticed what I believe was a bit of torque bind in the newly acquired wagon. I have only just gotten the car, so haven't driven it much, but when I pulled into my driveway, I felt a bit of shudder... So, first thing I am in process of doing is a fluid drain and refill. I figure I will do maybe 3. The tranny actually felt good on the road, with smooth, firm shifts, etc. but the fluid was old and smelly... The wagon has 150K on it, and I will be planning to do front seals, timing belt, water pump, etc. Is there anything else I should be doing as part of that timing belt job at the same time? Engine seems to run well the little that I have driven it. Any suggestions as to what else I should be doing initially? Would be interested in your experience as to how long things like ball joints, and such last. I just did a rear wheel bearing in my sedan at 120K because it had gotten very noisy. Thanks again.

I have a couple of G1 Legacys, a 90 sedan and a 91 wagon, the latter which I just bought. I am in the process of going through it to see what it needs, ordering parts, etc. I'm ordering things I need to buy new (timing belt kit) and looking in the U Pull It yard for a few other things. I lucked into a 90 wagon from which I bought a few things, and noticed it's a FWD, as opposed to AWD, which both of my cars are. I'm wondering if it's worth my trouble to try to get the tranny (4EAT) even though it's a FWD rather than AWD. Would there be any way to make the FWD unit work in my car, if needed at some point? Also ran across a 95 with a brand new looking radiator, not even dirty, though it's an aftermarket part, not OE. I see that the 90 through 94 is listed as taking a different part. Wondering if anyone knows what the differences might be, would that 95 part work in my early car? Not an expert on these cars myself... The reason for my interest in the FWD tranny is that the car shows just over 100K, which is pretty low for these cars in yards, in my experience. Often they seem to have a lot of miles, often more than 200K. Thanks in advance for any help with what may sound like dumb questions...

So now I am replying to my own reply! After posting, I realized the questions had probably been asked and answered previously, so I used the search, and voila, I think I have some answers to my questions. Happy February! Here in the Washington, D.C. area, winter has been better thus far than Spring usually is!

I have a 90 Legacy sedan with EJ22 and 4EAT. The body is lousy, but the engine runs great at 115K. I do oil changes at 3K intervals and keep an eye on things, as I should with a 22 year old automobile! I am keeping my eyes open for a newer car, preferably a wagon, with a blown engine for which mine could be the donor vehicle. How much later can I go in model years and still have something into which I can drop my EJ22? I am in Maryland, where lots of salt goes down in the typical winter (which this winter has not been so far!) so cars do rust around here. Also came across a clean used EJ22 engine with 109 on the clock, which I was thinking to buy to have a spare. Would be interested to know what others think that engine would be worth if I try to get it. Thanks in advance for any input, thoughts, suggestions, etc. This board makes for great reading, lotsa fun!

I appreciate the positives, and looking outside the rust belt for another example is a good idea. Funny you should mention the t'stat... I don't think the heater in this car is wonderful. I need to check to see how warm the engine is running. The gauge looks normal (a little bit below half). I checked a local auto parts store for a t'stat, and they have in stock a 170 which they say is the standard temp for that car. I used to use that temp stat in other cars as a "summer" t'stat, but most cars I have dealt with since about the 80s had a t'stat setting of around 190. If anyone else has experience with this question, I would be interested in your input. I should follow up by saying that this car looks pretty bad, but it drives very well, feels solid, has a comfortable ride, and cruises nicely on the road, especially given its 20 year old status. I need to track down a front exhaust pipe, that goes between the engine down pipe and the converter. Someone told me it's the same pipe that was used on a newer Forester, which is kind of hard to believe. Parts store says it's the same on all 90 -94 Legos. Thanks again for the helpful suggestions and words of encouragement!

Just a child, eh? That's funny! I have heard that they last a long time, but I guess I figure it's 20 years old... If it continues to run well, my idea is to look for a better body, maybe a wagon, that might need donor parts from my car. Thing is... This car is so old, that I don't see many around with good bodies of this vintage. I live in an area with lotsa salt on the roads in winter, and it takes its toll. I can be patient, though, and perhaps something will come along one of these days. As I recall, the engine in this car (1990) will fit a few years later (?), and the tranny (4EAT) maybe a couple of years later (?) Of course, were I going to put this 4EAT in another body, I would certainly dismantle it enough to replace that speedo gear. Meanwhile, the body doesn't look so bad sitting outside under a fresh blanket of snow!

Hey, I am glad to hear the fuel economy figures, which lead me to believe my old car is not doing too badly in that department. The CEL is kind of weird. It hasn't been coming on much the last couple of days, which I believe is due to the fact that the speedometer is likely to kick in at low speeds, and my driving has not been all that fast the last day or 2. I can induce it by letting the car idle in neutral for a few minutes, which is the AIC, if the code is to be believed. I still need to get my used one cleaned up, get a new gasket from the dealer, install it, and see what happens. At least I have been able to narrow my CEL to 2 different things: the VSS and the AIC. I am very happy to hear that the "converter dance" (I like that term!) happens to others. You know how these things are: You have a couple of known "issues" and then you're paranoid with every little thing that happens that seems the least bit different. With 115K, I am wondering how long the drivetrain in this car will live. I changed the ATF a couple of times in succession, and it is staying a nice pink color, and the engine certainly sounds good. Again, I'm a little paranoid, because I went through a dark period with bad injectors and they flooded the crankcase with gasoline... That said, with the most recent change and 10W40 oil, the oil has remained clean and unpolluted, and the engine purrs...

I did another 300 miles today, most of which was highway, but not Interstate, so speeds were generally much lower than yesterday's 300 mile round trip, which allowed 75 and 80 just to keep up with traffic. The CEL was actually on very little today. The gears inside the tranny "catch" just often enough to give me the periodic thrill of seeing the needle move, which turns off the CEL. My guess is that the AWD and closed loop are intact if the CEL is off (?) Another little aside to this saga is that, last winter, when the speedo was not working at all, due to the seizure of the little takeoff device and broken cable, the tranny "Power" light would flash a # of times upon start up, which I read somewhere (probably here) meant that the AWD system was disengaged and the trans was in limp mode. Now, with the periodic but random operation of the speedometer, I never get the flashing of the Power light when I start the car. I believe that what I described as going in and out of gear at high speed is the unlocking/relocking of the converter when I lift my foot off the accelerator and then hit it again. This seems to happen when I do the lift/hit of the pedal between maybe 50 and 60 mph. Perhaps this is happening more because the VSS is not getting its input. I don't know... My frustration is that the speedo in this car is just fine, but that blankety blank gear inside the case is stripped. The body on this car is really beat, but mechanically, the car seems quite strong. I am the second owner, the first owner having been a friend, so I know the 114K to be actual, except that I am now putting miles on it which don't show... The body is so rough that it's hard for me to justify going inside that tranny to change the speedo gears. That said, the car runs great. It looks like it is doing right around 25 mpg, based on distance traveled and fuel purchased. It's my winter beater, but I am going to keep my eyes on CL for a better body for which my car could be a donor vehicle. Thanks for the input, and the link to reading material! And I am going to do a search here for the info on the speedo gear replacement, just to give me something to ponder. I remember someone quite knowledgeable had an article about 4EAT work/overhaul with great photos, which showed the speedo gear installation. Hope everyone here had a great Christmas!

Yes, this car has a cable operated speedo, and the VSS is in the speedo head. The gears in the tranny are stripped. They were stripped by a seizure of the little "takeoff" device which threads into the top of the tranny to which the cable attaches. I spent a lot of time trying to fix it and diagnose it when it happened. (Sigh...) I replaced the little takeoff device and cable and checked the speedo head. The speedo head is good. At this point, the speedo operates enough at low speed, especially when taking off from a stop, to keep the Check Engine light from coming on. It's certain that the lack of a functional VSS is causing the CEL to appear. The light will go off anytime the speedo kicks in, which it does from time to time. I'm just wondering how/if this would affect fuel economy. I was pushing it down the road today, 75 and 80 much of the time, so I wasn't exactly driving for economy. I will know after tomorrow's drive as to how much fuel, etc. I was just wondering what is "normal" for the car. EPA shows 19/26 and I am probably somewhere in that range. I think I saw a post once here that described pulling the differential apart on the passenger side to allow one to get a hand back inside the case to access the smaller driven speedo gear. Subaru has some great engineering, but I have never seen another car that has the smaller driven speedo gear attached from inside the case... Oh well... All in all, for a 20 year old automobile with 115K behind it, I think it's doing pretty well, all told.

I am curious as to what others find to be sort of average fuel mileage for a car similar to mine. It's a G1 (1990) sedan, EJ22, 4EAT with 115K miles behind it. I don't have a working speedometer most of the time (stripped gears inside the case, so I am using my GPS as a speedometer...) and today did 300 miles on the highway. Seemed like I used quite a bit of gas (but maybe it's the $3/gallon figure that is affecting my perception!) Anyway, I will do another 300 miles tomorrow, so at some point I can try to come up with a rough estimate of fuel mileage. Another question is that, with the speedometer not working much of the time, I get a "Check Engine" light when the speedo is out, and I wonder if it is affecting the 4EAT. Trans shifts smoothly, but sometimes when I lift my foot off the gas at high speed and then depress again, it gives the sensation that it is either shifting out of and back into high gear, or perhaps the converter is unlocking/relocking??? I realize the 4EAT really wants a functional speedometer sensor, but I don't have the wherewithal right now to pull it apart and replace those gears. It looks to be a long, long way into them! And... Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it! And thank you for the help/suggestions/opinions. This board is absolutely invaluable to a guy like I who has an ancient Subaru!

Naru, thank you for the suggestion to swap IACs. I think that's a good idea. I will get over the dealer next week and get a new gasket so I don't run the risk of creating a leak where there wasn't one! And I need to clean up the extra to give it its best shot at helping me. Thanks again!

I am having a problem with a rough idle after warm up, which sets code 24 (Idle Air Control Valve, I believe). It will only do it if I let the car idle in P or N, never in D or R. In D or R, the idle speed steps up and is very smooth. By shorting the plugs one at a time, I have figured out that it is the front cylinder on either bank that is missing when the rough idle is present, and when this is the case, the “Check Engine” light appears. I sprayed “Intake Cleaner” into the air inlet hose of the IAC valve, but it seems as though the valve is working, because the car idle speed does step up and down as I believe it should. I am suspicious of a vacuum leak under the manifold, but I don’t hear or see anything that would be a clue. I have been living with it for a while, because the idle is fine as long as the car is in gear. However, if I let the engine run in P or N, the idle speed will remain at just under 1500 for a bit, then abruptly drop to just below 1000, at which point the missing and check engine light appear. I have a used IAC valve which I could clean and install, but again, it seems to me that the one in the car is working, despite the setting of code 24. Any thoughts/suggestions are welcome and would be appreciated!

Didn't mean to imply that all cylinders are filling with gas. I believe it's probably one. It would only require one cylinder to cause the starter to bind, i.e., engine not turn over. It wouldn't take all 4, I don't believe. What I do have is an overfull crankcase defiinitely containing gasoline. I know I didn't overfill it with oil when I changed it. My main interest is in whether or not I can use any other injectors besides the gray tops, because they are harder to find. I know I read somewhere that at least one person had used either manual transmission injectors, or ones from a 92 to 94, possibly with the appropriate fuel rail, and had good results. I believe the way the injectors are set up in this design (side feed), a bad o ring might result in the cylinder filling with gasoline. In any case, thanks to all who responded for your help, and if anyone else has any suggestions, I would be interested. I will let you know what I turn up. Thanks again!

I have some bad injectors (have not checked them individually yet) but the leak is so bad somewhere that the engine will not turn over sometimes. It tries to turn and stops. I first thought the starter was bad so I replaced it and still have the same issue. I believe the engine is locking up due to hydraulic pressre in one of the cylinders due to an injector leak. I haven't been driving the car lately because of a bad miss and a glowing cat the last time I had it out! Today I discovered that the engine oil is overfull and smells of gasoline, so I believe there is at least one injector that is leaking fuel into a cylinder after shut down. I have had trouble with injectors before and have had a hard time finding the gray ones in a junk yard. Can I use injectors from another year in this car and are they any better in the newer cars? It seems like the gray top injectors (which is what my car has) are usually missing from parts cars which leads me to conclude they may be more problematic (?) I remember reading that the 90 and 91 had a different fuel rain from later models. This car is a driver and not a show car so performance is not an issue, though when it's not running on all 4, it is! (Low standards here, perhaps!) Thanks very much to anyone who can help.

I am following this thread because I have a 90 EJ22 with not too many miles and I would like to part out this car and use the engine in a newer wagon (for which I have been looking). My thinking has been to find a newer car with a bad EJ25 engine, and replace it with mine. Reason being that the body on my old 90 sedan is not good, and it should be easier to find a younger wagon with a decent body. So, it sounds as though I could put my car's engine in something as new as 95 but run into the problem of no EGR on my car? And into something newer than a mid 97, my engine simply will not work because of the bolt pattern change? Just trying to get this straight so I don't buy a car that needs an engine I don't have. Thanks!

Many thanks to all 3 of you for the input. I now know a lot more than I did about the T vs. non T. I think I have decided to pass on the Turbo, with what you have told me, and keep my eyes open for a better example of something closer to what I already own (90 Legacy, EAT) that has a better body. I do see newer ones (95, 96,97) models for sale with blown head gaskets and engine trouble that have nice bodies. I would prefer a wagon with a decent body (my car is a sedan with a very beat body) for which my car could become a donor vehicle. Which begs the question: How new a car could I buy and expect to use my old EJ22 (and perhaps 4EAT) as replacement parts? As I understand it, the 2.5 is the one with the head gasket issues. Could my old 90 car's engine be installed in a newer one with a blown engine? The engine in my car has no overheating issues and has 115K miles on it, which I know to be actual. Thank you again for all the help and information. I love reading this board!

I found out about a 90 Legacy Turbo wagon for sale with blown head gasket(s) that is supposedly in excellent condition otherwise. I wonder what others think it might be worth, as is, and how different an animal it is from my own 90 Legacy sedan non turbo, i.e., if I used mine for parts, would there be much that is interchangeable? Both are 4EAT, both are 1990, one is a sedan, the other a wagon. The wagon for sale is thought by the seller to be worth a good bit because he recently spent over 2 grand on a trans rebuild and radiator. My perspective is that, with blown head gaskets, it can't be worth a whole lot. Also wondering how good/bad the turbo models were. My experience with other brands is that turbo cars always have more problems, sometimes directly related to the turbo itself, others the result of changes that were made to make the car a turbo. Any thoughts/perspectives appreciated!

I am wondering about my car's engine in a younger car, i.e., at 114K miles, my car's engine seems strong. I often see newer cars advertised with bad engines (mainly 2.5L models which often have blown head gaskets, or started with blown head gaskets and now have ruined engines.) How far forward into a younger car's body could the engine in mine be transplanted? Thanks again!