Lorryb

Thanks for the help everyone, got the seals out without too much trouble and the new ones slipped in nicely. It looked like all 3 seals were leaking somewhat. Hopefully that will take care of it. Lorry

Update: I just finished installing the Heli-coil, spendy little items ($70cdn for the kit) but I guess that's cheaper/easier than swapping out the block!. As it turned out, I didn't have to predrill the hole, the threads were trashed enough that I could tap straight in (at least for the 1st half, the back half was obviously into good threads as the tap was harder to put in). It receives the bolt very nicely now, hopefully the advertisements are true and I can torque the idler down to 32 ft.lb. I'll be putting it all back together tonight. Who knows maybe even fire it up? I can see a light at the end of the tunnel........hopefully it isn't a train! Lorry

Where are Legacy's and Imprezas built? If in the US when was the last year for Japanese built for both models? I am in Canada and am wondering if we get our Subies from the same place as those in the US.

I don't suppose that the newer Outbacks have that little switch for the park lights on top of the steering column? And I don't suppose there's another person as dumb as me. I didn't know it existed and inadvertantly bumped it on and killed my battery 2 days in a row! ;^) Probably way too simple an answer!

more troubles! had trouble getting the t-belt on so it would line up. Anybody else have trouble getting all 3 marks lined up? It would seem that the passenger side cam sprocket needs to be just slightly past the timing mark, not much just a wee bit. Does that sound right? Then it happened..... before I mounted the belt I put the bolt holding the adjuster idler in, or tried to! Couldn't get it started so I got my handy little picks out and poked around in the bolthole. Oh oh, metal filings coming out! Looks like it was crossthreaded! Cleaned it up and finally got the bolt started with my fingers, ran it in about 4 turns and then it stopped, thinking I must have it started ok and there's just a bit of cuttings left inside, I ran it in with a socket, it went in nicely and withdrew nicely. Then.... got the belt on and tried to install adjuster idler. Again bitch of a time starting but finally seemed to thread allright, ran it in with a socket to almost tight, then put the torque wrench on it. 32 ft.lb is the spec I believe, somewhere before 32, the dreaded slippage became apparent. After 5 minutes of meaningful language I backed the bolt out, yep threads chock full of cuttings. What a pain in the rump roast, what a poor way of designing an adjusting idler! With the lateral pressure on it from the T-belt a cross thread is just dying to happen, especially in nice soft cast aluminum. Oh well what's another day or two without the old Subie. Its off to the auto parts store tomorrow for a Heli-coil kit. Anybody else have experience with Heli- coils thread repairs? Hopefully someplace in the nearest city will have a metric Heli-coil kit. :boohoo:

The ignition relay is a bit of a bitch to get at. In my 91 Legacy wagon it is attached to a plate attached to the left fender wall near behind the ECU. The harness plugs into it there. When I changed mine I just unplugged the harness and plugged in the new relay, leaving the old one still mounted. To get at it you have to remove the panel below the steering wheel. Then remove the ECU for better access. Its likely to cost you a bit of skin! On my wagon you could see the relay thru a little gap that would have been behind the coin box. Good Luck!

UPdate: I guess the keyway wasn't "fine" after all, I had trouble getting the gear on so I had to clean up the nose of the crank a bit. the edges of the keyway were a bit rough. A little emery cloth took care of it. I torqued the cam sprockets to 50 ft.lb. and the oil pump mounting bolts to 10 ft.lb. _ Is that right? 10 ft.lb seems a little soft to me. BTW when I pulled the oil pump to replace the o-ring, guess what I found? Yep, one of the screws on the back plate had worked itself very loose! Good thing I checked! Good thing I read USMB! What a great message board! Hats off to the guys that make it happen! I had to reset the engine timing as my cams were off due to the belt skipping. As per the Endwrench and some other relate posts on USMB I set the cam timing marks to the top, matching the marks on the back timing covers and I set the crank/oil pump gear to 12 o'clock high. Does any body know if there is a mark somewhere to match the mark on the crank/oil pump gear? At least one article says 12 o'clock high but I was wondering if there is something else that will indicate the crank is in the proper position. Tomorrow the belt goes on and I hope to fire it up.... Lorry

On other posts folks have advised that one should change the cam seals when doing the T Belt, What about the crank seal? Should I do it as well? How do you get any of those seals out? Just pick away at them with a sharp object? Also mentioned was changing the o ring on the oil pump, can you get at the oil pump when you remove the left cam pulley and left rear timing cover? Anything else I should be changing while I'm in there?

UPDATE: So here's what I found: Some eejit must not have tightened the crank pulley bolt sufficiently when they changed the T belt! Oops, mea culpa. I distinctly remember using the torque wrench so perhaps its not all my fault, I read somewhere on USMB that the given torque setting is wrong and should be 110-130 ft#. I don't remember what I torqued it too but not enough obviously. It wasn't a complete write-off thank goodness. The crank pulley got loose and wobbly, ate the timing cover and I can only assume caused the T belt to jump a couple of teeth. Does this seem logical, I can't find any other reason for the belt to skip. Good news is that the keyway in the crank is still fine, the key is hooped and the keyway in the crank pulley is a little iffy. I have a new key and pulley from my donor car though. now in the process of refitting everything.... Lorry

Latest news on the dead Legacy. When I picked up my Subie from the dealer they had obviously pulled the crank pulley and taken off the timing cover. Oh oh, the timing cover has been worn/eaten away apparently by either the back side of the crank pulley or something caught in it. The Dealer said I "might" have trouble removing the crank pulley. Hmmm I wonder why they said that? They apparently got it off, and then put it back on! Unfortuneatly when I picked up the car the mechanic was gone for the long weekend, so I'll have to wait til next week to question him. Meanwhile I'm gonna try and pull the crank pulley, the belt etc. and have a closer look.

FWIW - I had an 85 Camry (bought new) - it was a dog, it ate struts, mufflers and T-belts every time you turned around, the crappy white paint job lasted exactly as long as the warranty, and to top it all off the cruise control never did work in spite of about 20 trips to the dealer and numerous letters to Toyota Canada. I'm glad I switched to Subies (obligatory Subie content). I ain't never gonna own another Toyota.

Thanks Josh, I did the T belt a while back and thought that if it was reverse thread I would have remembered it. This is a quote on the Chilton's or Haynes' thread I started: Maybe the 2.5 engine is reverse thread?

I read in a post that the crank pulley is a reverse thread? Is that true on an EJ22 as well? (I don't wanna spend too much time turning it the wrong way!)

I did a web search and could only find reference to HTKYSA for 1975-1988 Subies. No mention of an edition for Legacy's or the EJ22 engine. Am I missing something? If the older Subie engine and the EJ22 are very similar perhaps I should just keep using my 1986 Subaru factory service manuals?

Got the diagnosis from the dealer today. Not good news. Apparently the timing belt has slipped a couple of notches and there is significant oil leaking around it. Probably the seal for the oil pump. They seem to think the oil pump may need to be replaced as well. Also they hinted that there may be damage to the crank and that if I have to change the oil pump the crank pulley may be difficult to remove. Hmmm. also the tensioner may be shot as well as perhaps the bearings on the cam pulleys? I think a lot of this may be speculation if they haven't pulled all the timing belt covers. They felt that running the it with the belt off a tooth or two may have damaged the crank? Does that make sense? Judging from the way it failed ie I drove it twice while missing and running rough for a total of about 60 miles, then it wouldn't start. I would suspect it jumped a tooth, I drove it, then when it jumped another tooth it wouldn't start. The only thing I can think of that might have caused this is a faulty tensioner, I checked the tensioner when I replaced the belt and thought it was allright at that time. The check had something to do with compressing the tensioner and timing its recovery if I remember correctly. So I'm not really sure what I should do. I have a donor car with an engine that runs well although it has 100k km more on it than my engine. Should I just scavenge the appropriate pieces or just swap the whole thing out. I just can't decide. I'll keep y'all posted, no doubt I'll have lots of questions as I go along.

I'm sure this has been asked before but I did a search and didn't come up with anything. Any opinions on which repair manual is better for an early series Legacy ie 90-94? Chilton's or Hayne's? I've been getting by using my factory manuals for my old 85GL but that doesn't work so good. Is anybody interested in buying my set of 1986 Service Manuals? I'll post them in the Marketplace.

I give up......... I have tried replacing the alternator, the coils, the ignition wires, the igniter and the main ignition relay. Still no results. There is fuel and spark. What more should I need? I also popped one of the timing covers and the timing belt appears to be sound (although I saw the previous post showing a broken key, I hope that isn't my problem) So yesterday I did the only thing left, I put it on a flatbed and took it to the dealer. :cornfuzz:

Thanks for the input everyone, I'm making a list of things to check when I go back, 1. Fuel Delivery 2. Spark 3. Fuses I think the connectors I found were in fact for the codes, but when I connected them and then turned the key to on, the "check engine" light flashed continuously not in any sort of morse? code. Any ideas what's up with that. My wife had the car in at the dealer's about a month ago and one of the tech's pointed out a (in my wife's words) valve? that should be changed. He advised the car could just stop if it quit altogether, but she can't remember which little piece it was, just that it was on top of the engine. I have contacted the Tech but he hasn't returned my call yet. Any ideas on what little thingy he could be talkin about? O2 sensor perhaps? I'll keep y'all posted

Can anybody tell my where the "main ignition relay" is located on my 91 Legacy?

Visited my dead Legacy today..(nice sunday drive if you like 8 hour sunday drives!) .... Changed the alternator, charged the battery, changed the spark plugs and leads including the coil? or whatever that block is they connect to. Also added some new (better?) gas. Alas no change, It doesn't seem to want to start, it doesn't even sound like its firing! Also turning over the engine seemed to kill the battery rather quickly, it sounded like the starter was having to really work to spin the engine over. I am at a complete loss. I searched for the black leads under the dash in hopes of getting the ECU codes, but couldn't find them. I did find a pair of wires with black connectors (one wire was red) but when I connected them and then turned the key to on, the check engine light just flashed continuously. Any suggestions???

I had a similar prob on my 91 recently, hub was very loose, not 3 or 4 inches maybe 1 inch or so. The Midas Muffler shop quoted me at $480 Cdn to replace the bearing. "3 hours of labour!" but that didn't include a new hub if necessary. I got a second opinion and they just tightened and adjusted the bearing, said it would be fine ......... cost...... $80 cdn (so I took my wife out to dinner with my savings! )

My 91 sedan may turn into a donor car for my wagon allright, I hadn't decided what to do with it yet, but I was gonna pull the alternator and take it with me. I don't really think bad gas is too likely, I filled up and had run out about 1/2 a tank when the problem started. I filled up on Monday, drove about 200km on the tank, then parked the car for 2 days, then the problem showed up. I'll check the board again in the morning, maybe somebody out there has some other ideas on what the problem might be. Thanks again............Lorry

2 years is well within my expectations for the life of a battery, Do you think the alternator can cause that missing? I have a spare so I will take it out to the car tomorrow, charge/replace the battery (I have a spare one of those as well) and see if that's the answer. I sure hope so, its a long drive to my car (4 hours, its at my cottage and I am home now) I sure don't want to have to tow it, that would be awfull spendy! Even if I can only limp it home it would be great. I can't think of what else it might be. One thing tho' my check engine light has been on lately, I pulled the codes and it indicated the Purge Solenoid thingy was bitched. I have kinda ignored it as somebody told me that this was only a anti-pollution doo-dad that controlled the amount of exhaust gases fed back into the intake manifold. Do you know anything about the Purge thingy? Would a faulty one have this type of impact upon the engine running smoothly? Thanks Carl ....Lorry....

Thanks for the input Tex, The battery is of indeterminate age, ie not too old, maybe 2 years, the alternator was also rebuilt about 2 yrs ago. There hasn't been any engine work done to it since I changed the timing belt last fall. Also we just came back from a major road trip (6000km in 14 days) 2 weeks ago and it ran like a clock the whole time.

One other thing, it shouldn't be a timing belt issue, I changed the belt less than 25k km ago.