Cookie,
I joined USMB Forum several months ago because of the need to replace a CV Axle, The CV Axle was a no brainer. But I also had some cooling issues that were out of "my norm" meaning that all the usual stuff was not resolving the problem and knew that I was going to have to go after the Water Pump. So I was just doing the reading about replacing Timing Belt, Water Pump, and what not. I must say; I'm not some "Mech-Head", I'm more of a "Back-Yard Mech" I do have several things going for me such as several Mechanical Engineering Degrees and have always been good with my hands...even with autos. With all that said; during my investigating of the finding the "best" Timing Belt Kit and Water Pump I came across your post about finding TDC with a coat hanger. I kept it in mind because of the constant warning about making sure of this in many books and posts across several forum boards because of this engine being an "Interference Type".
Well Cookie, Guess what.... After all was apart and I began the process of putting on the new timing belt I discovered that cam pulleys were all "f"d up and the marks were never going to all line up unless I went thru the process of finding TDC on #1 AND ,,,I Do mean AND!!!...and then making sure that #2 was were it was suppose to be. Pulling the spark plugs and using your coat hanger trick worked!
After turning the Crank Sprocket to align notches and arrows as shown across the mountain of literature that I have found concerning this engine, I found TDC on #1 (using a Coat Hanger in SP port #1) rising it to the top (coat hanger sticking out the farthest), seeing that the notches on the cam pulley did align with the engine. I then went to SP port #2 with my coat hanger and did a check on that to ensure that it was at the bottom of stroke (coat hanger sticking in the farthest), at the preceding moment of start rise, again the notches all aligned as they should. Then as a triple test I pulled Plugs #3 & #4 and compared the positions on those with each other and #1 & #2 as well. I Know the last part was a bit dumb cuz the cam shaft can only do what it does...But I'm an Engineer and over checking is just part of who I am. I'm Not OCD..I'm An Engineer! LOL !!
Cookie the long and short of all this is I wanted to Say Thank You!!!! Your Info was correct, logical common sense stuff and very helpful. Everything is back together and running one hell of a lot better as of day 1.5.
Summary:
I believe that the problem that I encountered and others have posted, is a result of timing belt stretch. What I mean by that is this; If the person replacing the timing belt only does the paint pen method of marking across belt to cam pulley from notch on engine it will work for awhile, IF the cams have not already started to walk out of time because of belt stretch which will have a appreciating effect every time the belt is replace using the paint pen method. But thinking about what I encountered leads me to believe, that if your replacing the timing belt for let me say more than the 2nd time and the Mech used the Paint pen method before, (which was clearly visible in my case) the cams have already stated to walk forward. I have +174,750 miles on my Forester, and have the anal service records from the previous owner showing that the last time the timing belt was replaced was at +/- 90,000 miles. So In my estimation of the books all stating "FIND TDC" its worth the time with this type of engine.
Cookie, I joined USMB Forum several months ago because of the need to replace a CV Axle, The CV Axle was a no brainer. But I also had some cooling issues that were out of "my norm" meaning that all the usual stuff was not resolving the problem and knew that I was going to have to go after the Water Pump. So I was just doing the reading about replacing Timing Belt, Water Pump, and what not. I must say; I'm not some "Mech-Head", I'm more of a "Back-Yard Mech" I do have several things going for me such as several Mechanical Engineering Degrees and have always been good with my hands...even with autos. With all that said; during my investigating of the finding the "best" Timing Belt Kit and Water Pump I came across your post about finding TDC with a coat hanger. I kept it in mind because of the constant warning about making sure of this in many books and posts across several forum boards because of this engine being an "Interference Type". Well Cookie, Guess what.... After all was apart and I began the process of putting on the new timing belt I discovered that cam pulleys were all "f"d up and the marks were never going to all line up unless I went thru the process of finding TDC on #1 AND ,,,I Do mean AND!!!...and then making sure that #2 was were it was suppose to be. Pulling the spark plugs and using your coat hanger trick worked! After turning the Crank Sprocket to align notches and arrows as shown across the mountain of literature that I have found concerning this engine, I found TDC on #1 (using a Coat Hanger in SP port #1) rising it to the top (coat hanger sticking out the farthest), seeing that the notches on the cam pulley did align with the engine. I then went to SP port #2 with my coat hanger and did a check on that to ensure that it was at the bottom of stroke (coat hanger sticking in the farthest), at the preceding moment of start rise, again the notches all aligned as they should. Then as a triple test I pulled Plugs #3 & #4 and compared the positions on those with each other and #1 & #2 as well. I Know the last part was a bit dumb cuz the cam shaft can only do what it does...But I'm an Engineer and over checking is just part of who I am. I'm Not OCD..I'm An Engineer! LOL !! Cookie the long and short of all this is I wanted to Say Thank You!!!! Your Info was correct, logical common sense stuff and very helpful. Everything is back together and running one hell of a lot better as of day 1.5. Summary: I believe that the problem that I encountered and others have posted, is a result of timing belt stretch. What I mean by that is this; If the person replacing the timing belt only does the paint pen method of marking across belt to cam pulley from notch on engine it will work for awhile, IF the cams have not already started to walk out of time because of belt stretch which will have a appreciating effect every time the belt is replace using the paint pen method. But thinking about what I encountered leads me to believe, that if your replacing the timing belt for let me say more than the 2nd time and the Mech used the Paint pen method before, (which was clearly visible in my case) the cams have already stated to walk forward. I have +174,750 miles on my Forester, and have the anal service records from the previous owner showing that the last time the timing belt was replaced was at +/- 90,000 miles. So In my estimation of the books all stating "FIND TDC" its worth the time with this type of engine.