subpennyman

I did rotate the Dist clockwise about 1/4 inch that placed it up against the stop. It still would not stay running- but I did take it for a drive! When I accelerted away from a stop the engine hesitated real bad and I had to back off on the throttle to just above idle to get the engine to run again. I rotated the dist back to its factory original position- about 1/4 inch away from complete c/w rotation! Now there is just a real slight hesitation during hard acceleration- but it is liveable- until I can get a timing light on it!

OK- I am getting an Air Flow Sensor Code error # 23 - What do I do Now?

I cannot drive the car with the Green connectors connected- the engine dies just after it starts !

Current trouble codes: 23 Air Flow Sensor 34 ? 35 Canister Purge Control Solenoid. Anyone have any clue on what to do with these error codes? Does the timing need to be set to 20 ° BTC with the Green connectors connected?

No I have not had the Distriutor out. Dark colored connectors? What is this about? I will try adjusting the timing (by rotating Distributor) and reconnnecting greens after I take the car for a cruise and read the codes. Thanks for everyones help! Subpennyman

Skip-Thanks a million for bringing to my attention the Post and link by and to Miles! And Miles, thanks so very much- the Subaru manual that I had checked out from our Library didn't say one word about the 3 hash marks on the Flywheel or rotating the crank 360 ° after you set the Drivers side up! Skip, your link to Timing Belt Stuff fixed my timing issue. The car is running-Praise the Lord! So I taped in a sticky note with the link written down on it to the page on timing and returned the book! However- when the Green connectors are connected- the engine still dies! What should the timing be set to, onced I get things to work with the green connectors connected? I will take it for a drive tomorrow and then read the codes again. Hooziewhatsit, thanks also for first telling me that I had messed up big time!

OK Need some real Brains here. Replaced timing belts and set both cams to 12 O'Clock along with Crank shaft gears (had to pull Crank gears off to physically locate timing marks(sube puts them on the aft side) and then I marked front side with chalk and scribed with exacto knife! Reassembled and verified correct alignment- even rotated engine through 2 complete revolutions and reverified!Reassembled and attempted to start-not good! Verified TDC of #1 Cylinder (Cylinder closest to right front fender). Rewired distibutor cap 180° from where it was when I disassembled things! Car starts with full throttle and barely stays running at 1/2 throttle. Cylinders 2 & 4 not running-pulling cap wires results in no RPM change! Notes: Car will run with wires swapped 180° on Cap. Did not try and verify which cylinders were operating in this backwards configuration. Tried to see if connecting white or green connectors made any difference- they do not! Removed timing belt covers and reverified timing marks align at 12 O'Clock and with the slots in the top of the case aft covers. Rotating the distributor does not help in making cylinders 2 and 4 fire. Question: Where should the timing marks on the flywheel at the back of the engine be when my cams are set at their timing mark align points. Comment: I changed theses belts once before at 70,000 miles ( now 155,000) and did not have this much grief! I put the timing marks on the cams at 12 O'Clock-marked the gear on the crank, and changed the belts! Zing a 5-6 hour job for the first time! This has turned into a night mare! Almost 2 months now!!! Help- my wife needs her car- and I need some sanity-and a break from having to work on her car in every spare moment that I have! If anyone wants to call me, I can be reached at 253-921-4374 Pacific time zone please!

No! I have the timing belts off and new ones ready to go on- I am a fair weather street mechanic, and it is raining today! And yes I am having trouble with the starter energizing-sometimes have to rotate to start several times before the starter will crank!

How long will my ignition switch last? Can I ultimately expect this switch to fail? Sub

Timing Light? Am I supposed to use the light while the Green Connectors are connected? What if I use the light with them diconnected? Will that skew the results? The car wont stay running with the greens connected! I do like your suggestion of timing belt! Some of my co-workers express the same thing do to codes 11 and 13 coming up and the fact that it will not stay running when the greens are connected! And it should! I think I am going top tackle all the other code issues before I jump into replacing the stretched ( highly possible) timing belt! I also need to deal with the starting problem that I still have after cleaning both Battery terminals real well! When the key is turned to start, sometimes the circuitry acts like a loose/ dirty battery connection- and the starter will do nothing or click once! After turning the key several times, the starter will rotate and the engine will light off! My wife says its getting worse! I suppose if I wait long enough- I'll get total failure and be able to track it down a lot easier ( I am starting to suspect starter-maybe brushes? 155,000+ miles) Sub

Computer Codes 1 long 1 short Crank Angle Sensor (No Reference Pulse). 1 long 3 short Cam Angle Sensor. 2 long 3 short Air Flow Sensor. 3 long 4 short ? 3 long 5 short Canister Purge Control Solenoid. 5 long 1 short Neutral Switch. Here is another interpretation: I like this one Better it is from : http://www.troublecodes.net/Subaru/ 88 and later models with Single-Point Fuel Injection 11Crank angle sensor or circuit 13Crank angle sensor or circuit 23Air flow meter or circuit34EGR solenoid or circuit35Purge control solenoid or circuit51Neutral switch continuously in the on position Now to go figure out what they mean! Sub

Disconnected the Battery tonight (01/24/05) for 30 minutes. Reconnected and verified codes were cleared with 5 flashes (fast). Wife is going to drive car again tomorrow- I will check for faults in the evening. She also confirmed that the car runs rough/ hesitates during acceleration (in town). I noticed it when getting on the freeway!

Replaced O2 sensor on Catalytic Converter and reconnected wire. Car runs. Went to clear the codes per this post: You're supposed to run the D-check procedure. Warm it up, shut it off, connect both the D-check green connectors and read mem connectors. (edited later: I left this part out: Turn on the ignition, verify that the CEL light comes on, press accelerator to floor, then back off to half throttle for two seconds, then release it completely.) Then drive it constantly above 5 mph for at least 39 seconds (yeah, I know). CEL is supposed to blink, indicating no codes found. If, after about two minutes of driving above 5 mph, you get the CEL light again and it's not blinking, it's done with the diagnostic mode and it found another code, which you can then read. On my rig, I sometimes get a 51, Faulty Transmission Inhibitor Switch. Balls -- switch tests fine. Maybe it's intermittant, but it's sure no fun to get out and work with: I've done it once. __________________ Regards, Al S. After connecting the White and Green Connectors- the Car would start and die- Just like original problem! With White only connected- car runs ok. With Green only connected-car starts and dies. With White connected and car running: when green is connected-car dies! Seems like it is starving for fuel! I think what has happened here is that both the white and green connectors (were noticed to be disconnected by owners/operators during under the hood inspections) and not knowing what the functions of the connecters were, reconnected them! So the car was driven for (I don't know how long!) in clear the memory mode! Or would it be better termed read memory + d-check mode? Long story short- I cannot clear the memory!

Thanks! I removed my badly carboned, brand new, Autolite plugs today and heated them in the Toaster Oven and then sprayed them with oven cleaner (my wifes idea)! My plugs look almost brand new again! The CEL light is still inop, the light on the ECU is flashing 3 longs and 3 or 4 shorts(very hard to count) and then 2 longs and 4 shorts. I then realized that I have the O2 sensor disconnected as well as the white connectors! Atleast the LED is flashing again! The O2 Sensor cost $22 and change at Schucks- its a universal sensor- and it looks like it is going to be a royal pain to change! Sub. Again thanks to Royboy159 for his fantastic and knowledgeable help and insight last night! I would still be broke without him!

Kudos to Royboy159!!!! This guy helped me out immensely! The rich running fuel problem that I have been experiencing was caused by having the Green Connectors (used to set timing) [and located under the hood drivers side] connected!!!!! Disconnect these 2 connectors unless you are setting timing ! When I disconnected mine, engine RPM picked way up and rich running operation ceased! I have since taken the car for a test drive and drove about 2-3 blocks and the engine started to miss and surge and do something totally new! I limped the car home, let it rest awhile, and did the same thing again- with the same results! Outside air temp is approx 60°F. Again Royboy159 to the rescue! "Try unplugging the O2 Sensor" was his right-on advise! Sensor plugs into Catalytic Converter and has an Orange-ish wire that comes up under the axle against the Transmission and then heads towards the Firewall and into a connector. I unplugged the connector-and problem solved! So now I need an O2 sensor plus other unfinished business; 1) What caused my original failure- car died on the freeway with my wife driving. Would restart, but die as soon as the key was let go. 2 My Check Engine Light (CEL) is inop! 3 My LED on the ECU below the steering column is totally inop! It worked earlier this evening- I had 5 rapid flashes and then 5 more rapid flashes and so on. I started disconnecting the Throttle Body, when I was interrupted by Royboy159. After reattachment (2 nuts and 4 hose clamps), and disconnecting Green and White connectors (used for testing), the LED would not Flash. Sub

This is an ongoing problem and my original post has gotten buried............Right now the car starts and runs (not driveable)- it runs very Rich, Rough* and Hot! 3 of 4 Spark Plugs are Soot Black and Cylinders 2 & 4 exhibit some slightly noticeable change in RPM when the wires are pulled from the Cap- Cylinders 1 & 3 have a very noticable RPM drop! ( The wiring and Firing order has been checked and verified as correct.) HISTORY This problem started out with the car dying on the freeway (a week before Christmas) - and after a tow home, I found the Fuel Injector stopped putting out fuel after the engine started! (This is what I call the Original Problem) I dug around the engine compartment as well as in the passenger compartment-pulling dash panels trying to figure out the whole fuel injection/computer driven ignition/emission control nightmare by looking for the connector for the Code Reader- and in frustration put it all back together again! And things worked (the engine stayed running) - but very rough*! Thinking a Tune-up would help (because one hadn't been done in a while) I performed a tuneup (Plugs, Wires, Cap,Rotor, Air Cleaner) . But no help! I didn't find this out for about 10 days because the car would no longer stay running after it started. (The Original problem had returned)! I should point out that while executing the Tune Up, I did my best to make sure that I didn't cause any more damage to the engine or pulled down wiring and panels inside the vehicle. When I had completed the parts change out for the tune-up - I was very surprised to find that my Original Problem had returned! So I continued digging and trying to understand how this car works. When I felt that I had reached a dead end, I reassembled everything and prepared to tow the car to the repair shop. In one last desperate attempt, I started the car again. And the darn thing stayed running! But it ran very rough and lacked power! It was at this point that I drove the car down to the repair shop (not a dealer). When I talked to the mechanic several days later, he advised me that my catalytic converter system had gotten quit hot in my driving the car to him-(about 5 miles) because the engine was running very very rich! The repair shop had it for 2 weeks, came up empty (but didn't empty my wallet praise the Lord!) - and now this deadish car is back in front of my house ! The car repair shop found the engine to be running very rich-they said the Fuel Injector was metering excess fuel into the Throttle Body. They (and I have verified this) removed the short black 3"hose at the back of the Throttle Body and found no vacuum coming out of the center of the Throttle Body going over to the Fuel Pressure Regulator! They connected up a Hand Vacuum Pump to the FP Regulator and applied 28 In Hg of vacuum and the engine ran fine! They said that they had to get to 28 for things to work correctly! I have verified that 28 InHg is necessary! They also said the Fuel Pressure Transmitter wasn't putting out the 36-50 PSI the book calls for! It was 22 PSI. When the vacuum on the Fuel Pressure Regulator was increased to 28In Hg, the FP dropped to 10PSI and the engine ran correctly! Am I looking at a defective FP Regulator? Or Fuel Pump? Also, during the tune-up- I used Autolite Plugs. Is this a serious mistake? And having driven this about 5 miles to the repair shop (with it running super rich)- my new Autolite plugs are thoroughly carbon/soot coated black! BTW-I towed it home. Any help any of you can offer would be greatly appreciated!

Skip-What is a can of dry gas? Where do i find it and how many gallons do I add to my 1/2 full Loyale Tank? Cougar- That is exactly correct! I wonder if I should try try disconnecting the starter-rather than letting go of the key? I dont know exactly where to get another SPFI on a barrow basis. Would you? Sub.

Skip- Not so - That is the Valve positioner 4 wires! My mistake. The injector has 2 wires that are soldered on right smack in the middle of the SPFI Throttle Body! GLEN- Also, the car will run after the key is released if starting fluid or additional fuel is poured down the throat of the SPFI! Sub.

Skip: So let me get this straight You have the engine cranking over to start You look down the TB and see gas being injected You connect the coil primary side???? The engine fires - you release the key to the "run" position The engine runs for a short time and dies. Is this correct? Almost.... I stop cranking-reconnect the center wire to the Cap- crank it again- it starts and runs for about 4 to 5 seconds and then dies- pumpiong the accelerator does nothing other than add more air to the mixture. Normally; upon cranking the car will start and run for 1-2 seconds and then die. If I chose to inject gasoline or starting fluid down the throat of the spfi after it is running- it will stay running as long as I give it fuel. Last week.... I disconnected the 4 pin connector(valve position sensor) at the SPFI body and attempted to take voltage measurements- 2 pair had approx 6 volts dc each. Not knowing what specifically to do with the information or where to go from here, I decided to put everything back together and go inside and think about it! But before I closed the hood, I tried to start it one last time- the thing started and stayed running! It was very rough- and thats when I realized I had never tuned it up since we bought it new-it has 155,000 on it. Well, I tuned it, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, air filter (it was plugged pretty good)! And the gap on the plugs was easily .88 twice of what the spec calls for. After the Tune Up, I am now back to my original problem! It starts and then dies! I had never heard of the NOID- Thanks for the info. I also tried the car with the seat belt and shoulder harness plugged in- no change. Sub.

Skip, Thanks for all your words of wisdom. In the history of troubleshooting this problem, I was able to get the engine to run with the MAF assy diconnected from the throttle body-ie the engine was running but no airflow was going through the MAF. I also have tried to run the engine with the MAF disconnected- whether it is connected or disconnected, it failed to stay running. Also the device under the cap appears to be working because my injector is pumping fuel with the coil center wire disconnected. Sub.

With the Coil disconnected, I can look down the throat of the throttle body and see the injector consistently squirting fuel. The moment I connect the coil- the car starts and dies when all the fuel is burned up! Something is telling my ECU to turn off the injector! What devices have the capability to tell my ECU to kill the injector and how can I bypass these devices to narrow things down? Does anyone have a wiring diagram/schematic for a 93 Loyale Wagon/manual trans? Or a link to one? If so please contact me through this board or directly by e-mail scottyd9@nventure.com. Cougar- I appreciate all of your help. Sub.

Yes, I can hear it. And all fuses are good.

If an injector can prime the sbfi, does that mean the injector is ok?

I have a battery-operated handheld VOM, a Bench DVM (or DMM) and a 4 channel O'scope. In looking for pulses, wouldn't the scope be better? Or can I get by with the VOM? The reason I ask is, I have had my VOM plugged into the low resistance leads and measured voltage while cranking (but not connected to the injector) and measured a constant 5vdc- your saying I need a load to see the pulses? Could I drop a resistor across the leads and maybe see the same results? If so, what value would you recommend? 100,1K, 10K or something else? Or do I really need to hook the Injector into the circuit? Sub.

Yes- No blown fueses!