sublute

I don't have one. How much do they cost, for future reference? Are the connectors standard for this device? It seems like a good tool to have. I'll have to check if Autozone "rents" them. I'll check when I take the 1/2" drive torque wrench back...

Hello Yes, I've been doing that. I've just been going over every connection. I'm unhooking and unplugging and replugging just in case it didn't click or seat.

Yup, That one is right on top staring you in the face.... I'm not looking at it this moment and I will double check it... Could I have messed something up when I was cranking the engine to circulate oil and I didn't have the coil pack plugged in? The CEL light comes on when I turn the ignition switch and stays on while I crank and goes off when I turn it off. What is the indication that it is collecting codes?

Yes, the spark seemed too often and the wasted spark makes sense now. I didn't know about that. That also answers my question about the crank reluctor. I'll drag out the timing light and check it out. I did find the DirectIgnition.pdf and was scanning it. Thanks for the other link. I caught myself trying to figure out where to support when I was leaning over the engine... I broke this one vacuum hose digging to check the if the coolant temp connector was attached. It was OK while I was trying to start the engine. The PCV Y-connector was glued and may have been leaky... I'm making a second attempt at gluing it. I'll get a replacement later. I have been looking and looking for anything I missed hooking up. I was being very careful not to leave any stray ends...

Well, I would have plugged it... I may get out the sillyscope and try to look at the blips, tomorrow. I guess then I'll start down the diagnoatics "engine not start" in the OEM manual. It is for '97 and mine is 96. eveything so far has been the same. Maybe I'll need to "rent" a code reader from Autozone. I can't understand why it doesn't start. It was running just fine before I started this whole process.

Thanks, should I take off the fuel line when doing this cranking?

For the crank sensor I'm fairly sure I read 6 blips in a rotation. I rotated it several times reading on an analog VOM and also a DMM. All the tabs were on the crank reluctor when I looked at it the other night. Seems like it would take something major(drop) to break one of those off. I couldn't figure out the pattern for the cam sensor but it was blipping~ .03-.05 VAC in a pattern. What is the pattern supposed to be for the cam? 96 EJ25l I forget, to crank the engine with a switch from the engine compartment, does the switch go from the batt+ side to the spade (selenoid?)connector on the starter? I could get a better idea of the pattern then. I might even be tempted to get out the old sillyscope.

Coolant temp. sensor. Check. Casualty the Y tube connector broke from the oil separator to PCV to air intake. Plastic POS.... I'll try to epoxy it together. Actually, it broke on assemble and I glued it once.... I'm not sure it will glue. I'll check the local Subaru supply place. Also, a little piece of rubber tubing that connects from the intake manifold to the fuel rail and some other thing on the wheel well.. I will have to check in my tubing section. Should have something that will work there. I checked the crank and cam sensors and get a 1.9k ohm reading and then an AC reading when turning the crank by hand yielded very small blips on the analog VOM 2.5 VAC scale. I couldn't really discern a pattern as I was busy trying to turn the crank and read. I tried the DMM on the 2 volt scale and the highest reading was~.05 volt blips from both sensors. Sound OK to you???

Is there any way I could have damaged the TPS or Idle air control air valve when I was spraying gum-out and wiping out the throttle body when I had the intake manifold off?

Hello, I am almost positive that I installed the proper cam pulleys in the proper position. They are marked R andL IN and OUT and it's obvious which one has the magnets in it. It seems so incredibly hard to hook up spark plug wires on the engine. It seems like one could do it blind.... mount the coil up side down and the primary hook up doesn't reach... direct relation to each cylinder plug... The easiest layout ever... If a plug is saturated with fuel doesn't mean you have to throw them out??? Does it??? At one point, I took all four out blew them out with comp. air, dried them with a 500 watt heat lamp, put a rubber tube on the air nozzle and blew each cyl. out to clear fuel. I am trying to find how to check the crank and cam sensor right now. I can't find it in the OEM manual. It just says check sensors and gives a section 2-7 10AKO. Darned if I can find it. Haynes says check the resistance, but gives no values. It has been so long since I considered hooking up a remote starting switch, how does it go? battery+ terminal to the spade lug on the starter?

Yes, this is driving me NUTS!!!!! but at the same time, it is forcing me to understand this EJ25 engine which is good.... I will be armed for any future situations. Although I have not had that many no-start situations with all my Subarus and then it was always quick fix.... Thanks nipper for the sensor information. Crank is spark and cam is fuel... I'm still curious how it tells the difference between compression stroke and exhaust? The crank reluctor has 6 trigger points and I can't remember how many on the timing pulley. Does the grouping of two reluctor points reference the stroke? I took the t-belt off and put it back on...check. The dashed line is on the crank reluctor/case marks and the other four line up correctly. Subaru OEM belt. The plugs are wet, and I unhooked the fuel line, put it in a container and plenty came out when I cranked. At one point I dryed the plugs out and blew compressed air into each cyl to clear gas. Could the injectors be dumping too much gas in?s I can't say that I hear the injectors clicking, but I'm cranking from inside the car... I do hear a very faint hum or sound coming from the throttle sensor after an attempt at starting. I goes away after a short while. Compression- #1-175 #3-165 #2-173 #4-I just couldn't get the plug out last night... the other numbers seemed OK, so WTF... I forgot to open the throttle and disconnect the fuel when doing this test... I'll have to find out how to check the sensors for the pulse... I should rig up a switch to crank the engine from the compartment... My cheapo vacuum guage was stolen with my tools years ago and I have refused to pay $25 now for one that doesn't look any better than on I paid a couple bucks for. (Cheapskate...) I need one though... I have been back over every connection over and over. I made sure they were seated firmly and clicked

Hello, I'm starting a new thread the old one was "96 2.5l OBW head gasket project" and was 12 pages long... Background, the car is back together and not starting. It's getting plenty of fuel, compression is good. I see a spark at each cyl. although I'm a little suspect about the spark quality. The coilpack measures 1 ohm across the primary and flashes 19k across 1-2 and 3-4. That seems right? What should I check next?

Hello, I will take your advice and start another thread... I was on a one track state of mind to get this done. I had briefly ruled the coil out after checking that it had been replaced 35k miles ago, however I did pull the coil and measure it last night. I got 1.0 ohm across the primary and a flash of 19K across the secondarys 1-2 and 3-4 It is a Diamond unit. That seems within tolerances. My DMM is off by several tenths in the lowest range, so that 1 ohm is closer to the .7 ohm spec. The flash of the 19K has to do with the way the DMM reads pushing through the coil??? I'm still suspicious about the spark, too. I ran the fuel line into a container and yes, plenty of fuel. plugs are wet when I pull them. Could the injectors be stuck and dumping fuel? Do I start checking sensors? Anyhow, I'll start that new thread, now.

OK, I checked the compression on cyl 1-2-3, Sorry I just couldn't seem to angle #4 to get the plug out tonight... Mojo's not there... 1-175 2-165 3-173 4-??? I forgot to hold the throttle open when doing these... I also didn't disconnect the fuel pump spark seems kinda wierd? it seems to be firing too often and maybe weak. All the plugs 1-3 were wet. I checked with an old dry plug, too. same result. One #2 cyl. the plug flashed significantly brighter. I'm going to compare with the Loyale right now. Do I suspect the coil? Sensors?

Good idea about checking the spark on my Loyale. I'm not used to these fancy platinum spark pluge and that would provide a good reference. I can also just get the reference from an old platinum plug I pulled from the car. It is unfortunately raining hard today... I did have questions about how hard or easy it was to crank the engine. I could feel the compression on strokes as I rotated the crank to align the belt/cam/crank. That warmed me up for the t-belt job.... I will now quantify this with the compression test. I just have to get some office work done and hopefully have time to do this before I pick my 3 yr. old daughter from pre-school. I used a small crow bar to jam into the slot in the flex plate slot via the inspection window to undo and torque the cranshaft accessories pulley. I didn't read about anybody doing this. See any harm in doing it this way?

OK, thanks for all the responses. I understand now that the cam sensor determines the type of stroke. I did take off the t-belt and put it back on. I at least know that it is right and I realize it can be done in 2 hours. I am also understanding much more about this engine. Thanks everyone for your patience while I think out loud in trying to figure this out and for good answers and advice. In answer to the three questions, I do know there is fuel getting to the cylinders. The plugs were all wet when I took them out yesterday. I dried them out and blew out the cylinders. I know spark is getting to two cylinders. 1 and 3. I will check the other two and do a compression check today. The car sounds normal when I crank it, but I don't have any experience with the New Gen Subaru's. On a side note, I would like to say that this is the most civil site I've been to. I have not seen a single flame or A-hole type behavior anywhere on the USMB. I am a luthier specializing in lutes and early music instruments and this site is more civil than the lute listserv! Another newsgroup I moniter is rec.audio.tubes and it is a mess with a really high A-hole factor. Thanks... OK, enough of the warm fuzzies and time for the coffee to kick in and roll up my sleeves and do spark and compression tests...

OK, The piston sucks fuel in -stroke one, then the piston compresses- stroke two, then the plug fires and the power stroke three, the piston returns to TDC again to blow out exhaust-stroke four (no spark). If the computer tells it to spark at exhaust stroke and not at compression stroke, it is out of sync 360 degrees, right? Anyhow, the reluctor on the crank has 6 tabs, I can't see how many trigger magnets the drivers side intake cam has and I'm not going to take it off to see.... I just took the T-belt off and will rotate the crank 360 degrees. I'll let you know what happens. If I'm wrong, I'll at least know how to change the T-belt in my sleep now....

Ok, If I got the crankshaft 360 degrees off and the cams are in the proper position, cylinder will be in exhaust when it is supposed to be firing. Right? So the crank and cam shaft sensors tell the computer TDC fire? They don't fire on the exhaust stroke, do they? They must be timed as each sensor has 5 trigger points on each 360 degrees. If the crank shaft to camshaft is 2:1 then the computer is referenced to TDC when the 5th sensors on the crank and camshaft come together every 2 turns of the crank. That explains the 5th trigger point that is off the 4 points of the compass... I was wondering about that point... Thinking that rotating it 360 degrees (this was without the belt on of course) was OK and I was back to proper index.... Wrong...4 stroke engine...I should have known better. I deserve a dope slap... I got the fuel lines right... double checked with a photo I did on start...

Actually, I had the marks correct when I put the t-belt on reluctor mark at 12 o'clock and hash marks matching on the cam pulleys, then putting the t-belt on matching the correct marks. In short I think it is timed to spark on the exhaust stroke and the crank is off by 360 degrees. I think I must have rotated the crankshaft once for some reason and didn't rotate it again... I wasn't thinking straight or basically being stupid. Thanks for bearing with me and helping me to think out loud and find what I think is the problem and solution.

OK, I got my answer from and old post regarding interference engines. snip---- 05-01-2006, 12:27 PM Wayne Boncyk vbmenu_register("postmenu_456825", true); Eat, Live, Breath Subaru Join Date: Aug 2004 City: Denver State: Colorado Age: 52 Posts: 347 iTrader: (1) Photos Re: Interference or non? You are indeed correct. The 1996 2.5L DOHC engines are "interference," in the sense that both intake and exhause valves cannot be open simultaneously. They hit each other in that mode, with nasty consequences. Still, if my memory hasn't completely failed me, there is enough clearance in that DOHC design so the valves don't actually contact a TDC piston when they're open. Bottom line - there are different flavors of "interference." end snip.... next post in the thread snip... ANY and ALL DOHC Subarus are valve-valve interference. Yes this is properly called 'interference' because as has been explained in previous posts, serious damage can result that requires the engine to be torn down. end snip So, as long as the camshafts move in proper alignment with each other, the valves would not have contacted each other and they wouldn't have been whacked by the piston at TDC.... Now, I will go and do the compression test to see if I got the wrong position. If it is wrong, how do I find the proper position which I assume is for cyl # 1 to be at or after TDC??? Would it be 360 deg from the current wrong position? Actually, I should get compression on cyl 1 but the plug would be firing on the exhaust stroke, right? I can't visualize what is happening to the other cylinders... Maybe they would be off with compression. I have to find that neat moving gif of the 4 cylinder movement of a subaru engine...

OK, I'm doing a major re-think. It seems like the only thing could be out of timing. Have I toasted the engine(bent the valves)? The pistons look like this which suggests that it could be non-interfereing???? have I dodged a bullet? Or is it interference between the valves which causes the damage? In which case the valves were all moving relatively to each other in proper order because the cams were aligned to each other just not timed correctly with the piston position?? I guess the compression test will give me the answer... I remember rotating the crank at some point and maybe I got it off???? If I take the t-belt off and try again, how do I find TDC for cyl 1 which is the proper place to start to reposition everything...

Yes, I found out it takes a few complete turns to get the TB to align at all the marks again...I was freaking out that I had really not gotten it on properly, then it lined up perfectly. I took my vest off somewhere in the middle. Check on the three electrical harness connectors... I did figure out that pulling the plugs from below was the ticket... # 4 is still a PITA... I'm going to check for spark at each plug, then do a compression test tonight. On the T-belt alignment, when you align all the cam pulleys with the arrows up^ the front mark ^ on the crankshaft points at 12 o'clock and if you put the front t-belt cover on and the pulley for the AC, etc... on, the highlighted notch will also align on the 0. If you then properly align the hash mark on the reluctor (clockwise~6-7? teeth) the double hash marks on the camshaft pulleys come together and the single hash marks on the camshaft pulleys align to the marks on the plastic back covers. This is the position for T-belt replacement and all that. See my photo's of their position when I took the belt off. Does that make sense? I just read your next post and the http://www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Pdf/082001_08.pdf illustrates what I'm talking about perfectly. When the timing belt/pulleys are in their proper position the arrows on the cam and crank pulleys all are clockwise by ~6-7 teeth. Photo's 1,2, and 3 in this PDF show this. I took the belt off when all the arrows were at 12 o'clock then realized the reluctor mark was the right one and rotated the crank to that position ~ 6-7 teeth clockwise. Thanks, the more I go over it, the more I'm sure I did it right. Compression test should tell???

As far as I can tell, I got the T-belt right. I made a slight mistake when I took the belt off when I lined all the arrows upright on all the camshaft pulleys and the front arrow on the geared crankshaft pulley was upright. All I had to do was rotate the crankshaft 6 teeth to clockwise to align the reluctor mark with the sensor case mark. The camshafts were off of the proper position by 6 teeth counterclockwise. So in otherwords I aligned all the arrows straight up but relatively the proper position for all the cogs was ~6 teeth clockwise. The double hash marks on the cam pulleys would have aligned, the single slashes to the cover index marks and the crankshaft reluctor to the case mark would have all lined up when I rotated the crankshaft 6 teeth clockwise. There is only one position of the crankshaft that this happens, right? I took the the covers off the other night when I was freaked out thinking I had done it wrong. I rotated the crank until the hash marks lined up and all the single marks lined up with the cover marks and I couldn't see the slashed line on the belt on the crank, but when I align the arrows upright, the crank pulley for the AC, steering pump,etc.. is indexed at the 0 on the center plastic timing belt cover. The same position as when I took the TB off. So, all looks good there. The coil position is as I remember you can read the label and the connector exited left rear to meet the proper hook up connector. No crossed wires. Seems very hard to get wrong... By the wet plugs, I assume there is fuel... could there be too much? I checked both the crank and cam sensor connections... And each injector connector. and anyu connector that I could find... I have already verified 1-3 getting spark I can do the other 2, then do a compression check...

OK, this is driving me nuts... I took all the plugs out this morning and blew them out with compressed air and dryed them out with a heat lamp (500 watts). I then hooked one up to a spark plug wire and observed the spark. Looked OK. I also hooked up an old one and that looked OK. While the plugs were out I connected a rubber tube on the end of compressed air and blew each cylinder out to clear any fuel. I put the new plugs back in and put the wires back on. I got a very slight studder when I cranked it then it went back to an occasional near miss on maybe one cylinder. What could be happening? I have changed engines, replaced timing belts, etc... on my Loyale and never had such trouble! It is really making me feel like and idiot! The battery is recharging again...and I need a fresh look at what the problem could be.

I will pull the 3 easily removed plugs and try to dry the cyl's out and put in 3 old plugs. Also, I'll do the spark comparison before I put the old ones in. Maybe I didn't dry the old plugs or cyl's out enough? Anyway, that will be tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestions