outback_97

Garner: Not sure why a search on Nasioc didn't work for you, but here's some links I found, searching in the Brakes under "drum disc": http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=356215&highlight=disc+drum http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=299489&highlight=disc+drum http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=430969&highlight=disc+drum Not your year of car, but good info nonetheless: http://wac.addr.com/auto/obs/disc/disc.html Hope these help. FWIW I have done a few writeups on TS mods myself, including speakers, fog lights, and map lights. Let me know if you are interested in any of that. Steve

cbone: What prompted you to take it to the shop? I'm just curious if it had some other problem. I can't answer all of your questions, but maybe a few. It's common for the oil pump seals to leak in this car, it happened to mine and many have reported this problem. Oil can collect at the bottom of the timing belt cover and they may have been concerned that oil getting on the timing belt would have shortened its life. On mine oil was seeping through the timing belt cover gasket, and blowing back onto the oil pan and exhaust. Didn't notice much, and no pooling below the car because it only leaked when the car was running. Very little oil loss (< 1/2 quart in 3000 miles). Random overheating can be a sign of head gasket problems, but that's just a possibility and hopefully not the case here. Can you get the codes stored in the car checked to see what the CEL is? That's what I would suggest doing. Steve edit: here a link re: the oil pump leaking thru tb cover: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/usmb/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9542&highlight=oil+leak+timing+belt+cover

Thanks! If that works and they're still available, I'll incorporate that into the writeup. Steve

I did a writeup for adding map lights to the '02/'03 and I would assume '04 TS. For some reason Subaru forgot to install them in everyone's TS's Anyway, here it is, hope this is helpful to any TS owners out there: http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/mods/maplights/ Let me know what you think, thanks! Steve

There is a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) about a clunk in the steering column when one goes over bumps with the steering wheel turned. Is that similar to your noise? I can't remember the number but a search on "legacy steering clunk" may turn something up. Also, one of the struts was bad (leaking) on the front of my '97, I had to replace both before 90K miles. Because the one was bad I ended up bending the mount. Steve edit: this turned up when I searched for TSB, but I still don't know the number: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/usmb/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5653&highlight=TSB This thread refers to the situation I'm describing.

I did round 2 of the ATF fluid change last night... didn't jack the car up at all, and there was still plenty of room to work on it and access the drain plug. I got the same amount of old fluid out (4.5 quarts) as when I had the front on jack stands. I ended up using 9 quarts of fluid in total. The car seems to shift a more smoothly now. Before it had that 'did I just get rear-ended?' feeling from 1st to 2nd, although it's never been what I would call smooth. Steve

Just wanted to say hi, I just found this thread and enjoyed reading posts from other UT people. We have two Subies, but they're definitely not the rock crawlin' variety. We have a '97 OB and '03 TS. I've always thought it would be cool to give the OB a little lift, but nothing extreme like you guys are doing. We've taken it on a lot of camping trips, somewhat back roads in the Uintas and a ways down the Hole in the Rock road (before it gets bad). It does seem like there's not too many posters on the USMB (or Nasioc or Edmunds) from UT, especially considering how many Soobs there are here. Glad to see some people posting. Steve

hb_kim: I just drained / refilled my '97 OB wagon's ATF this weekend. It was very easy. I opted to do this rather than a flush, based on concerns that a forced flush could do more harm than good. You'll get differing opinions on that, but I chose to just drain and fill. I did not drop the pan, just removed the plug. I don't think our cars have an external ATF filter. After driving for about 30 min, I put the front end on jack stands, put the drain pan under the plug, and removed the plug w/ a 17mm socket. It was easy to get to the plug from behind the front left wheel, rather than under the car. Be careful, the fluid will be hot. About 4.5 quarts came out, so I replaced the plug, put in 4 quarts of new Dextron III through the dipstick tube, and gradually added the rest to fill. I'm going to repeat this procedure and in theory should end up with about 70% brand new fluid, so it's not perfect but better than 100% old. Steve

Your mechanic's advice about the valve adjustment was consistent with what I was told by a few dealerships here, about my '97 OB. Here's a recent thread about the 105K mile service, if you haven't read this already: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/usmb/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10217 Still not sure what I'll do, but I'm not confident that any dealer I spoke with would be able to do this without potentially messing something up. It sounds like they just don't do many of them. Steve

Stu: You might want to consider doing the differential oils yourself, it's easy. Is her car an automatic or 5-speed? The auto has a separate front diff, the diff in the manual tranny shares fluid with the transmission. I did my front one this weekend (auto) and I have very little mechanical experience. This site will help you out a lot. Front: Remove drain plug, drain, replace plug, refill with 80W90 GL-5 (if it's an automatic). Rear: remove top fill plug, remove lower drain plug, allow to drain, replace drain plug, fill through top hole until it won't take any more, replace fill plug. Steve

lmdew: That's the plan, I'm just going to keep an ear on it and see how it progresses. It's not noticeable unless you're listening for it right now. I'm still wondering if it's normal for the area between the front diff and CV joint to be "loose" or have some play. Anyone? applegump: Go to endwrench.com and look in the archives, they have the procedure as a .pdf file there. Not something I'd feel comfortable doing, but many folks here would consider it a DIY. Changing fluids and unbolting / bolting on stuff is as far as I like to go, I'm no mechanic! Steve

This morning I: Rotated the tires, and readjusted pressures. Changed the front differential oil. Haven't done a real thorough test drive, but just cruising around it seems like the sound is still there, *maybe* a little quieter, hard to tell. In any case, the diff oil needed to be changed, it had been over 30K, but I was happy to see that there were very few metal shavings on the magnet. The ones that were there were very small. Still not sure if this is CV or bearings. I saw a post on Edmunds from a guy w/ a '97 GT that just had both rear bearings done. $1000 at the dealership, ouch! If mine need to be replaced I'll try an indy shop I think. Steve

Thank you for the replies. Last night I put the front end up on jack stands. The front wheels rotate freely, can't hear or feel any grinding, even holding a stethoscope to the wheel. Pulling in and out on the wheel... didn't budge or feel loose at all. There is something round rolling around in the RF tire... ice maybe? It sounds like it's BB or pea-sized. PSI was slightly low in RF tire, but only 2 pounds or so. Under the car, checking things out while I turned one tire by hand, the CV joint would flex slightly and lightly "clunk" when jogging the wheel back and forth, then seemed stable once the tire was rotating in one direction. Both CV's do this in the same fashion. Is this normal? The shaft seemed very solid, but the part between the joint and differential seemed "loose", both left and right sides. Is there normally some play or looseness in this? Then I noticed this (Right side, looking up at CV and front diff): http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/axle.jpg The boot seems to be leaking a little grease. Other than that it didn't feel any different than the other side. I'm due to change the front diff oil, so I'll do that soon. I didn't have time to rotate the tires, but I'll do that this weekend. The fronts were very slightly more worn (like a mm or less). Any suggestions? Steve

EDIT: It was in fact the front left wheel bearings causing noise. It slowly got louder and more pronounced. Fixed by an indy shop ($300), which is not cheap but I think they are a good shop, first time I used them. At least now I know what to listen for if the right side goes. ________________________________ '97 OB Wagon 4EAT w/ 100,xxx miles. At moderate speeds (25-50 mph) my car is developing a "droning" sound while turning (on/off ramps, curving roads, etc.) Doesn't seem a lot different right vs. left, but it's definitely louder when the wheel is turned than straight. It's not what I would call loud yet. Seems to come from the front of the car, not the rear. No change if I shift to "N" and coast. The frequency is speed dependent, but not greatly variable. Searching on "wheel bearings" here yielded MANY posts. But most of them refer to the rear bearings, and the .pdf I found through endwrench seems to only be a procedure for the rears. Do the fronts have the same problems as the rears... just not as prevalent maybe? I'm not sure my problem is the bearings, but it sounds similar to what others have described. Should I try rotating the tires? No uneven wear has been noticed. PSI is normal (mid 30's front, low 30's rear). Other things to check? Last time I looked at the boots they were fine. How does one positively diagnose wheel bearing problems? I don't want a wheel to lock up at speed, but it sounds like one has to keep an ear on things and wait for it to start howling louder and louder to know that's the problem. TIA. Steve

Here's a photo that might help clarify: http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/oil_leak.jpg Mine was the oil pump seal, and it leaked from the bottom of the timing belt cover, not enough to really pool on the ground but it would blow back on the engine and one could smell oil. The oil would lose 1/2 to 1 quart every 3000 miles. This is quite common on these engines, mine did it at around 70K miles IIRC. Steve

I have a '97 OBW with 100,xxx miles. In town only, I'm only getting 19-20 mpg... but it hasn't been above 30F here for weeks. In the summer I get more like 23 in town... it's the cold weather, and maybe the winter fuel as well. Hwy mileage is upper 20's. Are you going by the gas gauge, or how much fuel is actually used? The gas gauges on these cars are notorious for being pessimistic and telling you that they're empty before they are... mine says it's almost empty after 200 miles, but there's still several gallons left. Steve

For fun I called yet another local dealer (we'll call them Dealer D) and their story was similar to B and C, that is they don't recommend the 105K mile valve adjustment service unless there's a clicking noise after the engine is warmed up. They also said one had to remove the engine to perform the procedure. So... only one in four local Subie dealers seem to know what they're talking about, according to the consensus by most people posting here. Ironically, this same dealer (A) has lied to me in the past, screwed up simple tasks, etc. I understand why so many people do their own maintenance... but I think the valve adjustment is a bit beyond my ability. Still not sure if I'll have it done or take my chances and wait until something else breaks in the engine first. I may have the compression checked to get an insight into how the engine is doing, but I understand this doesn't always catch HG problems. FWIW, I emailed CCR last week but haven't heard anything from them yet... no big deal, but I was hoping they'd weigh in on this issue as I assumed they'd have some knowledge about it. Thanks to all who took the time to post their info, I appreciate it. Steve

Some googling just turned this up: http://www.endwrench.com/pdf/engine/FtEngineValveAdjustF00.pdf This is from Subaru's endwrench.com site, and is a somewhat detailed instruction procedure for the adjustment in question. In the second paragraph it mentions the special tool (ST 49818700) which makes the adjustment possible w/o removing the engine, although it says that clearance is tight. Guess dealers B and C don't have that tool, sounds like you guys nailed that one. OTOH, they say in these instructions that they did it while the engine was out. I'm not sure how I feel about the pre-emptive gasket change. I haven't been convinced that it's a guaranteed inevitability that they'll fail, only that it is a common problem encountered by many people on forums such as these. I'll try to contact Emily at CCR, but I do really appreciate all the information and points that people have raised. It's too bad that the dealers aren't as informed and helpful. Steve

I was wondering if I could get some info on the 105,000 mile "Valve Clearance" service recommended for the 2.5l engine. Mine's a '97, and the timing belt was done a while back so no need to do that at 105K, FWIW. Three Subaru dealerships have given three different answers when asked about the 105K valve adjustment: Dealer A: It costs $320 labor, plus the parts (shims or "pucks"). Don't worry about doing it on a '97, but if you had a '98 or '99 you should have it done. Dealer B: It would cost at least $1400. We have to pull the engine, send the heads to another shop, it's a PITA. Wouldn't recommend doing it, it's just too expensive. Dealer C: Over $1000, don't need to do it unless you're noticing a clacking or ticking noise from the valves. So, the consensus is don't worry about it, but how they got there varied quite a bit, and the information and procedure used seemed to vary a lot. I don't want to spend money if I don't have to, so I'm glad they're recommending not to do it, but I want to keep this car as long as I can. If the head gaskets went I guess that'd be the time to check the valves, but that hasn't happened. I just want to do what's best for the engine. Can anyone shed some light on this? Thank you very much. Steve

Mine just rolled over 100K also, woo-hoo! http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/mods/100k.jpg Steve ^ just a little bit obsessive about this milestone. Hey, this is my first car that's made it that far!

Disclaimer: I have little knowledge of the emissions systems but this sounds a LOT like a situation we had and subsequently resolved. edit: removed lengthy EGR problem description per Legacy777's statement on the lack of EGR valve on these MY's. Sorry folks, it just sounded too similar to the problem we had with our '89 and NOx. Steve

99,9xx miles on mine... can't wait for the big 100K later this week! I gained a few pounds over Thanksgiving and incorrectly assumed it was all the turkey... now I know better Steve

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=448179 ^ Check this out. Carl: I think I've seen what you're talking about, but it's for Imprezas, and made by Kartboy. I considered getting them for my TS but decided to use the method shown in my link above. The Impreza brackets probably wouldn't work for the Legacy OB... then again I could be wrong. Steve

Not quite what you're looking for, but this may give you some ideas. This is how I mounted the Hella 500's on my TS: http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/mods/fogs/ Sorry, not very many pictures of the lights themselves, but basically there's a 10mm mounting stud at the bottom of the back of the light. This can be fixed in a vertical or horizontal application so you have a few options for mounting. You want to make sure that it's sturdy or you'll have a strobe effect when you go over bumps and rough roads. Good luck, let us know how it turns out. I have considered upgrading my 97's fogs to these but haven't managed to break them yet. Steve

Commuter mentioned $1000 in a post above. I have heard up to 2X that at a dealer though. A member named theotherskip has an excellent writeup on the repair. Alias stated: I have a 97 OB with the 2.5l, this week it will turn over to 100K miles. So far no major problems, an excellent car overall. Of the many thousands of these cars (96-99) that have been sold, do you really feel that ALL of them have blown or will blow a head gasket? The only figure I have seen based on actual research was around 20% from a German magazine, Autobild. On this board and others I have heard of dozens with the problem, but I don't accept it as an inevitability. As an owner of one of these engines, I am obviously interested in this topic. Back on topic: I would put in a vote for the '99 as well. Also, consider the regular Legacy wagons with the 2.2l engine (early 90's to late 90's). They should be less expensive at a given mileage, and are considered to be more reliable albeit less powerful than those with the 2.5l. Steve