outback_97

I'll throw in my $.02 The 2.5 in the Impreza has plenty of power for normal driving IMO. We have driven many miles with camping gear / luggage in the car at high altitudes from 5,000 to 10,000 feet, never felt like it was too weak. Around town it's just great. We have taken it on two 2500 mile road trips to Oregon / Northern Cal, and numerous treks through the mountains and deserts of MT, ID, UT, and AZ. It's been on pavement, gravel, dirt, sand (beach on the Oregon coast), snow, ice, and has been a great little car. We paid around 17K for it brand new, at that time WRX's were 22K to 23K. No regrets getting the 2.5 N/A over the WRX. Actually the 2.5 is probably better around town since our car is a 4EAT (automatic). Only problem in over 15K miles so far was a bad radiator cap that was replaced for $15 or so. Steve

Not an Outback... but at least this one's real! Steve EDIT: Why no photo, just a link? Can anyone tell me what I did wrong with the img tag? Edit: it had both sets of tags.... (img and url)

That's an interesting first introduction, Richard! Welcome to the USMB. You'll probably get a better response from folks on internet message boards if you opt to not type in all caps. That's considered SHOUTING and bad manners. I'm sure you'll get a response to your post, though You might also try http://www.nasioc.com in the Legacy forum and http://www.edmunds.com if you haven't been there already. Good luck, keep us posted on what happens. Steve

www.cars101.com is great for comparing models and difference in years too. We opted for the TS (now called RS wagon) in '03 because we could get a new one for the price of an '02 OBS with 20k miles. Also, we prefer the single color (like the WRX has) over the two tone... the two tone seems very '90's to me, but that's what my OB looks like and maybe we just wanted something different. That's all personal preference. In '05 there's probably even less difference than the "bugeye" models. Ours lacks disc brakes in the rear and previously lacked a map light, cargo area light, fog lights, and 16" alloys. All (except brakes) added for around $400 and some labor and shopping around. As far as the in dash cd changer, I've never been crazy about those, but to each his/her own. I think you'll want to upgrade the speakers at least if you care at all about sound quality. We did this too and even with the stock HU it's a big improvement. Writeups for the map light, speaker, and fog light install are available, just ask. Unless you feel you need the "extra" ground clearance (which amounts to what, a cm or two plus a little more body roll probably?) go with whatever you prefer and can get a better deal on. I think you'll like either one very much Steve EDIT: Took my own advice and perused the cars101 site. It's .4 inches, or 1 cm of ground clearance. That's not much. Other than projector beam fog lights and a rear 12v outlet (and of course the different look) I didn't see much else that seemed important. I've used my rear 12v outlet in my OB about 3 times, so fog lights are the only thing IMO. And those can be added, all these cars are wired for various accessories even if they're not there.

If it's from a tire the sound should relocate when you move the wheels around, so maybe try rotating them. I did this when I had a noise from my front end and it didn't seem to make any difference. My front wheel bearings were going out, and it did sound a lot like a knobby off road or snow tire. Mine was most noticeable from 25-50 mph though, and would change in volume depending on which way I was turning. Above 50 mph wind noise started to over ride the bearing noise I think. Drive through some s-curves, on and off ramps, or any area where you can reproduce the sound consistently and note if it's louder when curving right or left, or is it the same either way? Steve

My '97 OB does this too, I think I posted about it, quite a while back though. It was improved a little by draining the tranny fluid and refilling, then repeating this process so most of (but not all of ) the fluid was new. I think I'm just used to it, since it's been doing it for so long. My car now has around 110K miles and the tranny still seems strong. I wouldn't worry about it, although it is more harsh than many other auto transmissions. You can learn to modulate the go pedal to make it smoother, as it sounds like you've already noticed. Next time I change fluid, I may try the synthetic to see if that smooths things out a little bit, thanks Chip. Steve

Benny BB: We're about the same height... for what it's worth the Impreza is fine for me for four or five hundred miles in a day... longer than that and I feel cramped. We drove from Billings MT to SLC UT (650 miles) in one day recently and my body didn't like that, but I don't know if I would have been comfortable that long in any car, I just don't like to drive that far. The Legacy OB does offer a little more room, it's not a huge difference but noticeable. I'd say the OB is more comfortable, the Impreza more fun to drive. Good luck with your decision, I think you'll like Subaru. Steve

The Impreza has limited space in the back, I think you'd need to look at Forester, Legacy, or Baja if that's what you want to do. We have an Impreza and 1st gen Outback and while the OB can do what you're talking about (I have a pretty large framed mountain bike that's been in there), I can't imagine the TS handling it although I haven't tried. I'm a big fan of roof racks though... that's what I would use. There was a great thread on www.nasioc.com that compared the relative dimensions of the three (Impreza wagon, Forester, Outback)... I'll see if I can find that... and here it is: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=689844 . Plus on www.scoobymods.com there's a thread with dimensions in inches, but I think that was Forester vs. Outback and didn't address the Impreza, so it might not be as helpful. Go down to the dealership and try it out, they should let you do this (unless you just got back from a muddy trail ). Steve

90k miles on the originals??? Wow! Do they use the same OEM tires in Canada as here in the states (195/60/15 Bridgestone RE-92's) ? We took those tires off our TS with about 2000 miles, and got a set of WRX takeoffs with low miles for $250. I'm trying to sell the OEM 15" rubber since I have removed them and replaced with snow tires, too bad you're not local cause I'd sell them for $100 for all four. IMO: I'd recommend getting a set of brand new WRX wheels and tires from somebody local, shouldn't be more than $300 US or so, then you have a set of nice alloy rims plus tires for less than the cost of some all season tires. Check www.nasioc.com for regional forums and I bet you'll find someone selling a set, they're always on there, you just have to look around. Then, you can put some snow tires on your 15" steelies. You'll have the best of both worlds, better looks and handling for the warm months, better snow / ice performance in the winter. Steve

That's a lot of miles, but the price is probably consistent with what they'd ask around here too. If you have a little more room in your budget I think you should consider one with lower mileage, or a TS which will be cheaper than the OBS at similar mileages. Just my $.02. OTOH, highway miles would take less of a toll on the car than many short trips, so maybe that's not such a bad thing. We have an '03 TS which is 97% the same car, 98% if you don't consider the paint scheme, and we love it. Very good transportation. We should do a FAQ about head gaskets. The problems you've probably read about are mainly the Phase 1 2.5l engine, which was used from roughtly '96 to '99 and is a DOHC engine. In some cases it experiences an "internal" leak which can be very tricky for mechanics to diagnose and reproduce. Subaru has revised the head gaskets for this engine a few times over the years. Since they don't admit to a problem and it often happens out of warranty period, there's no good data on what percentage of engines suffer this problem. The car you're looking at has the Phase 2 2.5 l engine, it's a SOHC and some of these experienced external HG leakage, much more noticeable and the consequences of it happening seem less damaging. The HG concerns mainly affected '00 to '02 engines IIRC (not sure on that). Not sure if '02 was subject to the "coolant conditioner" service campaign, which is pretty much a stop-leak product added to the coolant by the dealer. On the plus side they extended warranty coverage if you had the additive added. Supposedly my '03 is not subject to this, evidently they had fixed the problem by then. Bottom line: I would not worry about HG's on an '02 SOHC engine. You could find out from service records if the "coolant conditioner" was added but that warranty was something like 7yr(?) / 100k miles and you're past that anyway at over 100K. Message boards like this tend to amplify problems anyway... most people don't seek out places like this unless they're having problems, so you hear about the bad more than the good. Steve

Two thumbs up from a two subaru family. Consider the Legacy wagon or Outback wagon if you're looking at the Baja. Unless you're hauling really specific things that just won't fit in the wagon, I don't see any advantage to the Baja. It's a cool concept, but IMO the size of the cargo opening in back (too small) makes it not all that useful. It makes me think of compact four door pickups which strive to offer the best of both worlds (cargo hauling of a truck, seating of a sedan) but offer the worst of both worlds (cargo area too small vs. a regular truck, too cramped, uncomfortable rear seating vs. a sedan). That is all just my $.02 of course. Steve

FWIW, that price wouldn't be unheard of here in SLC, that doesn't mean it's not a lot of money. Dude asked why the timing belt was done at 53K, I'd guess the oil pump seals leaked and there may have been concern that oil got on the belt. They had to get in there to do the oil pump seals anyway, and so it would have made sense to do the timing belt early. Just a guess... not too far fetched, considering it happened to mine. I have a 97 OB (same engine as the one you're asking about) with just shy of 110K miles. No HG problems yet, but I watch it very carefully and have to admit I worry about it. But, this is the best car I've owned. It has never left me stranded, is very comfortable and easy to work on, and I enjoy it a lot. Steve

http://www.geocities.com/hobiegary/hesfix.htm Assuming you've read this? Steve

Wow, this was an old thread, but I missed it first time around. Very interesting read. When we put WRX wheels / tires on our TS, I was concerned that the speedo would read too low since they're 3% bigger than the stock tires. Actually, it is now much more accurate according to roadside radar displays. Steve

Have you checked the tire pressures? I find that my car is really susceptible to things like that when the pressures are just a little bit different from side to side, moreso than other non-AWD cars I have driven. Steve

Sweet: Well, we pretty much keep it to 75-80 at the most, I see no reason to drive faster than that. And there are a few towns with slow speed limits along 41 from Dillon to Whitehall, so that adds a little bit of time but I thought it was a nice diversion from constant freeway driving. We left Billings at 7:30 or so. Got home (Murray) at 5:30 or so, and that was with near perfect weather (except for a little fog and wet roads near a pass by Bozeman. Only stops were to gas up and bathroom breaks. A very long days drive IMO... I don't like to drive more than 500 miles or so in a day. The TS is a great little car, comfortable for most trips, but my 6'4" body is sore today. I'm just a little too tall for that car on the longest trips. Observations on the skill and courtesy of drivers along the way: let's just say it went downhill as we went from MT to ID to UT to SLC. Steve

Hello from Montana! Actually, we've been here for over 24 hours, but haven't had time to follow up. Here's what we ended up doing. Left work a lil' early on Wednesday afternoon, my wife had the car ready to go, we headed up to Idaho Falls (220 miles from SLC, took us 4 hours due to snow storms and after dark driving in Idaho). Got there later in the evening, woke up to a brisk -1 F, but very beautiful blue sky. Headed up I-15 to Dillon and took Hwy 41 over to I-90, nice drive, good road. I-90 was not bad, there were some packed snow / ice patches in the passing lane, very windy in spots, some blowing snow, but not that bad. I'd like to try the W. Yellowstone road some time, maybe not in winter though. Our objective was to get here ASAP and safely to spend time with the family. I like Montana, I could live here, I'd miss the desert of Southern UT though. Thanks for the advice, mtsmiths! Steve

Haven't left yet... we're watching the weather to see if tomorrow or Thursday looks better. So far looks to be about equal either day, chance of light snow and kinda cold, but no big storms forecast Steve

http://www.subaruparts.com/cart/?pn=H4510FA100&submit.x=19&submit.y=3 Use it to look up the fog lamps at a place that sells subaru parts. Search for "subaru parts" on google? Steve (edit) found it at www.1stsubaruparts.com too

You might want to peruse this: http://mysite.verizon.net/vze730qe/guestlog.html This is a guestbook for folks who have blown headgaskets in the Phase 1 2.5l engines, and some with leaky gaskets in the Phase 2. Skip put together a great breakdown of how to do the repair. It is quite possible that you are having HG issues, it seems a lot of mechanics have trouble diagnosing this as it's an internal failure. Hydrocarbons in the coolant is a big sign, I'm afraid. These things need to be addressed before you ruin the engine heads. Steve (not a HG club member yet at 109K)

FWIW, some snow tires have different compounds at different levels of the tire, so keep that in mind. Example: Blizzaks (IIRC) have snow and ice compound for the first 50% of the tread depth, then after that they're just plain all seasons with no advantage over normal tires. So, in your case, @ 55% they're pretty much done if they were that type of tire. Oh, one more thing, do you know how to read the DOT date code? http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/determtireage.jsp I learned (after purchasing my tires used) that although the tread was around 90% and the PO told me they were "a couple years old", the tires were several years old. If I'd known that before purchase, I may have kept shopping. But since they seem to be in decent shape I'm giving them a go but keeping a very close eye on them w/r/t pressure and condition. Steve

A question for people who drive in SW Montana in the winter... we're travelling from SLC to Billings for Christmas. Mapquest says to leave I-15 at Idaho Falls and take 20 to West Yellowstone to 191 to Bozeman. My brother in law in Billings says to avoid that area as they aren't plowing some roads this year (???) He says to take I-15 to Hwy 41, from Dillon to about 20 miles east of Butte, then head over on I-90. Any opinions from locals? Thanks in advance. Steve

That looks like a really good deal, good to know if I ever need one for my 97. The url is probably that way because it looks good to the search engines, as does the way they have written their home page. You found them online, right? So it worked. Steve

It might be beneficial to know the year and engine (Phase 1 or Phase 2) and PLEASE DO NOT WRITE IN ALL CAPS!! It means you're shouting when you write in all caps FYI. Thank you. Steve

http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~scoobydoo/imprezaweb/reviews/handling.htm This article discusses the merits of different engine / drive wheel arrangements and compares several cars in terms of handling. I thought it was interesting, if older. New to me. Anyone else see this before? Steve