srs_49

Yeah, I think it's unreasonable. Sounds like the dealer is fishing for work. If it's just an oil leak (which does not seem to have been determined yet), forget about it unless you're really worried about your driveway/garage or it's causing running problems such as fouling spark plugs. You can put an awful lot of oil in a car for $1,800! I wouldn't worry about the head gasket if it's just allowing an external oil leak. Unless it's letting coolant to leak into a cyclinder or into the oil system, or causing a loss of compression, I would just let it go. There are ways to tell if one of those conditions is present. Valve cover gaskets are usually a piece of cake to do. I also think $800 for brakes is way out of line. I did my fronts, replacing pads and rotors for ~$150US. That also included new brake fluid. Haven't had to touch the rears. This is on a 2002 Outback with 85,000 miles. I would replace the timing belt though. I'm not sure if the 2.5L engine in the Forester is a non-interferring design or not. If it's not, then losing a timing belt will damage/break valves, gouge the combustion chamber, and in general wreck all kinds of havoc with the cylinders. I speak from experience on this, having lost a timing belt on my '73 Fiat (yes, a Fiat) years ago. Then again, my som lost the timing belt on his '94 Merc Tracer, which was a non-interfering design. That just left him stranded, but did no further damage to the engine.

It depends. I have a '94 Caddy which kept coming up with a failed O2 sensor code on the OBD. Actually, it was a failed O2 heater code. Some O2 sensors have a heater built into them to help them reach operating temperature quicker. If the heater circuit is not working, it may be interpreted as a failed sensor. On the Caddy, there's a ground clip that goes around the outside of the sensor housing that I assume is there to provide a solid (?) return for the heater. It's just a friction fit - no screw or clamp. I took the clip off, squeezed it smaller, cleaned up the outside surface of the O2 sensor, and put the ground clip back on. Things have been fine for the past month - no OBD codes or check engines light. Don't know if the sensors on the Subaru's are the same or not, just thought I'd pass on the info. FWIW, I wouldn't try cleaning an O2 sensor. They are very sensitive to any type of contaminate on their active surface, and trying to clean it could just exasperate the problem.

:)Success! On Nipper's suggestion, I removed the vacuum hose assy between the brake booster and the intake manifold. The check valve is embedded in the hose, so it's not something you can remove separately and replaced. It did appear to be sticking a bit (the old suck test), so I cleaned it with carb cleaner and dried it out with compressed air. The past 2 mornings, when the temperature was 10 deg F (yesterday) and 8 deg F (this morning), no problem at all! Had good brakes from the moment the engine started. Problem solved, at least for now! Though the car was in the garage those past two nights, the garage is unheated so it's, at best, only a couple of degrees warmer than the outside. I'm not sure if this fix would solve everyone's problems, but you sure can't beat the price ($0). I'll probably buy another hose/check valve assy to have around in case the problem resurfaces. Thanks for all the suggestions. This problem has been hanging around for over 3 (4?) years. I brought it up to the dealer's attention when the car was still under warranty, but they did nothing because they claim they could not duplicate the problem. If anything changes, or if the problem comes back, I will post an update. BTW, there's another thread on this forum started by OswaldtheBold about this same problem. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=70543

:banana:Success! On Nipper's suggestion, I removed the vacuum hose assy between the brake booster and the intake manifold. The check valve is embedded in the hose, so it's not something you can remove separately and replaced. It did appear to be sticking a bit (the old suck test), so I cleaned it with carb cleaner and dried it out with compressed air. The past 2 mornings, when the temperature was 10 deg F (yesterday) and 8 deg F (this morning), no problem at all! Had good brakes from the moment the engine started. Problem solved, at least for now! Though the car was in the garage those past two nights, the garage is unheated so it's, at best, only a couple of degrees warmer than the outside. I'm not sure if this fix would solve everyone's problems, but you sure can't beat the price ($0). I'll probably buy another hose/check valve assy to have around in case the problem resurfaces. Thanks for all the suggestions. This problem has been hanging around for over 3 (4?) years. I brought it up to the dealer's attention when the car was still under warranty, but they did nothing because they claim they could not duplicate the problem. If anything changes, or if the problem comes back, I will post an update.

I disagree in that I sure there is a failure/malfunction involved. Our '92 Outback exhibits the problem when the temperature gets below 32 deg F, which is not really very cold. I have owned ~12 vehicles over 40 years of driving, living in the same general area, and the Outback is the only one that has ever exhibited this kind of problem. One of the things we all could do is file a report with the NHTSA and have them open up a safety-related case. If they get enough complaints, they may do an investigation and ultimately, force Subaru to issue a recall or at least look into the problem. You can do this on-line at the NHTSA web site. Try http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

I'm going to try the check valve this weekend (see the other thread about this same topic). Luckily, it's supposed to remain cold for the next week or so, so should be a good time to troubleshoot. In the past, as soon as I would try something, the weather would warm up and the problem only occurs below freezing.

I'm going to try and look at the check valve this weekend. I'm all for trying the cheaper fix first, though I think I can get a vacuum booster assy on-line for ~$115, which isn't too bad. I'm sure the dealer would want to do the booster assy (more $$$ for them), but I don't trust 'em to touch the car.

Yep, that's the exact problem/symptom I've been having. See my latest 2 posts.

I tried Nipper's brake booster test this morning (4:30AM). Outside temp was 20 deg F. "hrmmm do you have a long hill by your house thsts straight and safe to try a test on? With the car off pump the barkes 10-15 times. With your foot on the brake pedal start the car, the pedal should move to the floor. If it doesnt you have a bad booster. Do this test first thing in the morning when the car usually has no brakes." The brakes reacted just as he decribed. Hard as a rock when first pumped up with engine off, then still hard (no braking,or very little) when engine first turned on. After maybe 10 secs of really standing on the pedal and the engine running, could feel the booster kick in, the pedal moved down a bit, and I had the normal braking (started down the driveway to confirm). My next step is the vacuum power boost or the one way valve in the vacuum line someone else suggested.

I've been fighting the same problem with my wife's '92 Outback. I replaced the master cylinder back in July. Could not tell back then if it solved this problem, since it only shows up when cold. But, now that's it's finally gotten cold, the problem is still there. The master cylinder recall was for brakes that would not release, not for brakes that were hard to apply. I just ran the brake booster test suggested by Nipper in a post to my earlier thread. "hrmmm do you have a long hill by your house thsts straight and safe to try a test on? With the car off pump the barkes 10-15 times. With your foot on the brake pedal start the car, the pedal should move to the floor. If it doesnt you have a bad booster. Do this test first thing in the morning when the car usually has no brakes." The brakes reacted just as he described. So, at least in my case, this problem is not master cyclinder related. I'm going after the vacuum booster, or maybe the one-way valve some else suggested to look at.

As promised, here's an update to the thread. I mentioned previously that I replaced the brake master cylinder back in July '06. The winter weather around here (central Maryland) has been very mild up until a week or two ago, so it wasn't until last week that temperatures dropped into the relm where the problem shows up (below freezing). Well, the brakes still don't work after an all night soak in 20 deg or lower weather. The problem is still there, maybe even getting worse since my wife says it takes here a couple of tries to get the brakes working before she leaves the driveway. Symptoms are the same as it has always been - feels like something is keeping the brake pedal from depressing. There's absolutely no feel to the brakes at all when this occurs, and, no braking (or very little). So, the problem is almost definitely not in the master cylinder. I guess the next place to look is the vacuum boost, which some of the posters here have suggested. Stay tuned

This problem sounds similar to the one I reported in another thread. Look for my update to that thread on 9/9/2006 and you can backtrack it to the start and see if the problem is what you're experiencing. Unfortunately, I haven't figured how to attach a link to another thread when posting a reply. See if this link works. May have to cut and paste in into your browser 's url window. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?p=232522#post232522

Here's an update on the problem. My wife pulls into the driveway back in July and all kinds of smoke is coming out from under the front wheelwells. Looked like the front brakes were not releasing after being applied and were just dragging on the rotors. After letting things cool down (this took quite a while), I tried the car and lo-and-behold, no brakes at all (well, maybe a little bit, but not much). Tried bleeding the brake lines, but could never build up any brake pressure in the front (right front, specifically). So, I replaced the master cylinder, re-bled all 4 wheels, and this fixed the problem. It will be interesting to what happens this winter. If the original problem reported (brakes not working when cold) does not surface, then I would assume the problem was in the master cylinder. Will keep this thread updated with the results.

I used the breaker-bar/starter motor trick to break loose the crankshaft pulley on my old '69 Camaro.

Interesting (and timely) thread! I just pulled into the driveway from a weekend away and, low and behold, the parking lights would not go out (2002 Outback wagon). Couldn't find the owners manual, and never even knew the switch on top of the steering column was there. Must have gotten bumped by one of the dogs or my grandson. Tried this forum and BAM!, there was the answer, right in front of me. Damn fine library system down there in Mississippi, a97obw.

I put Goodyear Assurance Triple Treads on our 2002 Outback wagon last November (2005). Have been pleased with them so far. Did not have much snow this winter in the Baltimore area, so were not able to give them a good test. Even our place in the mountains of West Va had little snow. They have been fine in the rain. Only drawback (very slight) is that they are a bit "mushier" in turns than the OEM Bridgetone RE-92's, probably due to softer sidewalls. Bought them based on reviews at tirerack.com

I looked into the recall issue when the problem first surfaced. If memory serves me, the recall had to do with brakes not releasing when cold. This problem seems to be just the opposite.

Have not done the brake booster test yet. It's on my things-to-do list. This is one of those problems that, when it shows up, the conditions are not very conducive to troubleshooting (20 deg in the morning). When the weather is more friendly, like in the spring and fall, the problem is not there.

Thanks for all the comments. Mine sounds like the booster. Yes, if I let the car warm up and pump the brakes a few times over the course of a minute or so, I can feel the brake pedal "give" a bit and then the brakes are working. BTW, I really don't care for my dealer, so that's why I won't take the car back there for servicing. They forgot to tighten the oil drain plug during one visit and my wife had to call them (she's 35 miles away) to pick the car up when she noticed a big pudle of oil under the car. Don't think there was any engine damage, but am keeping my fingures crossed. They want the car for most of the day just to change the oil and rotate the tires. Really poor service. If I hadn't bought a lifetime oil change/tire rotation package from them, they'd never see me again.

My wife's 2002 Outback's (LL Bean) brakes sometimes don't work when the car is started, either first thing in the morning when leaving for work or, less frequently, in the afternoon after a cold soak on the parking lot. First time it happened, ended up the neighbor across the street's driveway. Symptom is like the power assist has failed (no vacuum boost?). Car can be stopped by really standing on the brake pedal. Problem only shows up when outside temperature is below approx. 25 deg F. After 1 or 2 minutes of either idling or slow driving, problem clears up and car is fine for rest of drive. Also, through experimentation (it's been below freezing all week), found that pumping the brakes really hard several times when car is first started seems to get things working. Anyone else have similar probelms?

My wife's 2002 Outback's (LL Bean) brakes sometimes don't work when the car is started, either first thing in the morning when leaving for work or, less frequently, in the afternoon after a cold soak on the parking lot. First time it happened, ended up the neighbor across the street's driveway. Symptom is like the power assist has failed (no vacuum boost?). Car can be stopped by really standing on the brake pedal. Problem only shows up when outside temperature is below approx. 25 deg F. After 1 or 2 minutes of either idling or slow driving, problem clears up and car is fine for rest of drive. Also, through experimentation (it's been below freezing all week), found that pumping the brakes really hard several times when car is first started seems to get things working. Anyone else have similar probelms?