PictureChasers

Urgently need help on dealing with Subaru dealer on engine they completely rebuilt! We are in BC. We have 2 Justy's which we LOVE! My wife & I live over 800km apart, so we NEED them! Our first Justy had it's engine completely rebuilt by my local Dealer 5 months ago, complete with warranty, or so they said. We paid to remove & replace in car. Asked them many times to tell us anything else it needs, so we could approve it. we wanted this engine to last! We change the 20-50 oil every 2-3,000km, use Subaru filters, use fresh Prestone anti freeze. We maintain it, and we use it a lot! Our initial oil changes were at 40km, 200km, 1,000km, 2,000km. Motor cooked as my wife was driving last Monday. Our local dealer INSISTS that to be covered by Warranty that it must be brought to THEM(local dealer) at OUR cost. It's over 500 km away, there are 2 other Subaru dealers MUCH closer! I havent seen it but they say it's the bottom end, of course. Then they will remove and tear down, THEN decide if they choose to cover under warranty. If they choose not to cover, they expect to be paid in full for engine removal and teardown. They tell us that if any PART whatsoever is at fault, we must wait until they try to get money from the part manufacturer. Does this sound right, or should they warranty their engine rebuild as a whole? Any thoughts, comments? Among my potential actions are forget the warranty and have my competent Justy mechanic build another one, ICBC complaint resolution dept, Subaru Canada, BBB, letter to the editor, or simply parking across the street with window lettering that clearly states our problem and lack of warranty support... THANKS! Darren FYI This dealer originally took so long rebuilding the engine that they cut about 40% off their price, and lost their parts & service girl. The story is she quit after getting in constant trouble for promising us a speedy rebuild. She said a few days, it took a few weeks. Since our rebuild they have also lost their manager, I don't know why.

Hey Andy, What is mini-baja? Gotta link? I know that tires will provide adequate propulsion. We will not have "really knobby" tires, but full winters. We are only expecting to make 5 knots in water. Not concerned about electronics. I actually enjoy wiring! This is actually my first project vehicle where everything worked when I got it, often I rewire from scratch. Currently rewiring a 76 dodge motor home & a 1959 MCI motor coach. As to stability, the maker of the amphi-geo says most anything will float. If stability is a big issue once it floats, I plan to add removable pontoon bumpers, but I don't expect this to be necessary. Just to add once again for the thread, we are not crossing oceans, only want to cross the occasional river. Primary purpose actually is emergency preparedness. We photograph wildfire and soon floods. We are looking to create a versatile sporty 35 MPG vehicle, that can't easily get pinned down by disaster. We saw first hand 7 Amphicars floating in Seattle parade, will post link to images soon.

I just wrote them to see if they do Justy engines.

Hmm, I think that Subaru may have that glitch DOCUMENTED... ;-)

This year I get both boating license & ham. I grew up here, so boat license is no problem. I have Coast Guard friends, and they patrol most lakes in BC, heavy patrols on long weekends, to catch the drunkards. Since I have no desire to "end up in the brig", permit on the way! I think my insurance will be invalid, but what else is new? Stock looking? http://www.rallybc.com/photos/2002/Tbird/stuffs/tb02stuff22moreincomingtrafficdarrensweetandadonicaomara.jpg http://www.rallybc.com/photos/2002/Tbird/betty3/car69darren.jpg Our last car was hardly noticable lol Being camooflaged as a cow, our new Moobaru will hardly be noticed on land or sea. ;-)

This is true, but I dont think too many will bother. There have been thousands of amphibious cars made, they havent inspired the masses to the ocean. I hear thet there will be about 7 of the "famous" Amphicars in Seattle Opening Day Parade, I'll have pictures of them all. Could have ridden in one, butwe'll be working from a Yacht instead.

Well, I started this never imagining that it would reach several pages. Have learned a LOT recently. Hopefully soon, we will again actually be glad we bought a Subaru. Here's what I have learned. - Basicaly we were VERY poorly informed (repeatedly) that first there were shortblocks, then there werent. (BUT there are!). So we are now stuck wasting about $2,000 CDN on a rebuilt which is totally NOT what we wanted. We figure this rebuilt will last 2 years (lots of use), then we will go directly to WJM at Prestige SUBARU Parts Department. 1-828-298-9600, and buy a new shortblock (since the Canadian Dealers can only find them in Japan?), and bolt it in myself. THEN we will finally have (about $5,000CDN later), what we had requested from dealer. - First of all, sounds like some of you have not even met mice people there. My local dealer is stocked with good people that have been very nice at all times. - Just because they say it's available, it may NOT be. - Just because they say they are NOT available WORLDWIDE, or NOT in NORTH AMERICA, they MAY be! - best machine shop I could find was Paul's Sevice in Oroville, 3 pistons up for these guys (I only have 3) - Get all the parts you MAY need before anyone cracks a nut. We went in for a possible spun bearing, and made sure that NEW crank and NEW short block were available. We were misinformed that they available, then AGAIN MISINFORMED that they were NOT avail in North America. It seems now that it's too late that there are several in the US. (Which I had thought until I went to Subaru was within North America, maybe I should pick up a new map from Subaru?) - Don't rebuild the engine in your car if it still runs and is your daily driver. Buy an unknown donor and rebuild it first. - Even better, BUY A NEW SHORTBLOCK from a dealer that can actually find one, like WJM at Prestige.

Are these "older" cars doomed if even Subaru won't stock parts in North America? Mine is 1990. My biggest issue is first being told these items were available, before we even bought the car to rebuild. Items necessary to complete stages of our rebuild. Then they take our engine apart, now saying, oh, you meant you might actually want to SEE the part, well that's another story. Had they told us initially the REAL parts availability, we would not be in this spot, nor owning a Subaru yet. We seriously considered abandoning this car at dealership today. We only have $640 into buying it, if things dont improve on the dealership end soon, we may still yet abandon this car at dealer, and shop for another Rabbit to rebuild. We told them that too!

Do many of you use dealer either for parts or service? We are having a huge string of major issues over rebuilding our Justy engine at Subaru dealer. It's not about price, it's about competency & telling the truth. We bought this Justy to rebuild only after confirming through dealer that for our rebuild, both new crankshaft & complete brand new Subaru shortblock were available in Canada, depending on how far we had to go. Our last rsort was to order the short block if internal parts were hooped, which sounded fine. We let them rebuild it before our biggest trip of the year, it's now apart all over their garage, and OH, now there's a problem. That crankshaft they had confirmed, doesnt really exist, and the engine available on 1.5 days notice, is now only possibly available, in JAPAN. And the engine seal kit? It was imaginary as well, oh but there are 2 seal kits to relpace that one, for twice the price. How can we do any mechanical job if the dealer is not responsible for being right when they tell me there is a part available? Should they not be liable to tell the informed truth? Who else can I ask if Subaru has a shortblock, if not my dealer?

Actually most of those issues are side benefits. I dont want engine in water, and needed front buoyancy. I suspect we will be WAY cleaner than an average rec boat, and would not go in water designated "No motorized Vehicles. Up here that gets you a visit from the Coast Guard, no thanks. Actually we can do better. We RV to a central safe location, then will detatch Justy. Could easily rinse it off then as we have 50 gallons of water pressurized, and outside taps. No sweet little pressure washer though, yet. So I'm glad you no longer object to my plans. This year we are simply rebuilding for light off-road fun & TSD Rallying, so we'll be doing lots of fairly common mods for soobies. We photograph & write about each phase of this project. Hopefully next year I can begin work on flotation. We actually plan to see very little water, simply want the capability. As a photojournalist I have repeatedly passed up opportunities to shoot images of flooded areas for publication. We've seen a foot of water in out 35' motor coach in Ocean City. Like everyone else wet get the heck outta there. OK, ok, so we turned around & drove through flood 3 times, it was pretty cool. With our final version of this Moobaru, we would have parked, pulled the pin & swam off to get the story!

Sorry bout that, and you already got the definition. They have brief but well worded description at link below. Not certain who runs rallies in WA or OR, but we would be willing to attend any preferably 2 day race. We run in the BC TSD Championship at http://www.rallybc.com/html/tsd_events.html Novice rules for BC are here http://www.rallybc.com/html/novice_rules.html You get a series of instructions, with symbols & distances. He who follows the directions the closest WINS! You need a navigator that can read, talk, listen, do simple math around a complex theory (at first), and above all, NOT PUKE! Events are about 4-600 miles over 2 days, though there's 1 day events as well. The ones we have entered had primarily timed sections on logging roads, and non-timed stages on pavement. You will have to hustle here if you lost time in previous section. Cars are a minute apart, so if you even SEE another car, one of you has miscalculated. If you pass anyone, likely you will debate with yourselves whether that was right, or whther you should slow down to let them pass. We survived a spectacular blowout at 50mph. Passing Steven & Michael (cause they passed us!) we had a sidewall blowout from a cattleguard about a mile back. As I was clearing them they covered me with mud, I could NOT see at 50 mph 2 cars wide. Then our tire went, on their side! I barely felt it in the greasy mud, but knew my control in deceleration could possibly be very bad. Only safe way was to finish my pass, cut them off frantically signalling right as the 2 lane section ended. Camera crew got there for half the tire change, we were howling & covered with muck. We had NO plan for what to do with a dead wheel completely covered in muck, INSIDE our Rabbit. Fun tip! If you give your navigator a horn button & hi-beam control of their own, they can honk frantically and flash hi-beams to signal passing. I apologized to S & M for cutting them off (couldnt see them a bit) and they said no way, it was radical driving! If you want a CHALLENGE, try the winter TSD rallies of Thunderbird in spring, and Totem in Fall. We plan to compete again at Totem this fall!!!

This little car has few options, and is quite low CG. Most cars will sink engine first but ours will have sealed engine compartment. Weight will be fairly balanced with engine in front, humans in middle, and cargo in back. Any car parts below the water line act as ballast, so the wheels, floor, half of engine and our butts will be ballast. We also have air in the tires acting as pontoons at each corner. In a Justy, they are very close to corner for car, not much mass extends beyond the wheels. That "Amphi-Geo" I posted makes a good bow plane and small wake. I DO respect your opinion, and being quite environmentally friendly in both business & personal matters (tree hugger), in fact we sponsor & clean a Kilometer of highway near the Okanagan Mountain Park Fire of 2003, so I certainly dont want to sound like I am anti-environmentalist, but... Firstly our own engine will be tubbed in an easily cleaned metal box. Our motor is completely rebuilt & resealed by Subaru, or will be if they ever get finished. I certainly HOPE it won't leak for some time, and very easy to clean up after. Our exhaust will likely be ducted above water line, and certainly near the water line. Is it my idea that you don't like? Or is it all off roading that involves crossing water? (this would likely include mud bogs) IMHO this polution caused is no worse than the pollution caused by driving to work, leaking oil on the roadways, then allowing the first rains to wash it in lethal dosages into small streams from where it's stored on the pavement. Don't forget, when you wash your car in your own driveway or most car washes, your crusties from your car enter directly into our waterways. Most communities have no way to treat these non-biodegradeable materials, some can capture some of it for the landfill, much gets washed directly into the most convenient river. We have ships INTENTIONALLY dropping their "bilge oil" in Eastern Canadian waters, each bilge dump in the neighborhood of the "Exxon Valdez" disaster. This happens DAILY! Only now does the Coast Guard have the many millions it needs to catch these freaks of industry. So I don't feel that a few offroaders in the water is anything worth preventing. My biggest concern abour river crossings is the cars that drive across the bottom spinning. The damage they cause to animal habitat, not to mention running over fish. Our environment can only be saved by most everyone EXPERIENCING it. We can't all walk through the mountains, and I peronally don't want to. There is already norrmally a hike or climb at the end of our off roading, to get to our final destination, usually a waterfall. So many of us will drive "out there" just to see. I drive out there to educate not only myself & my partner, but our 12 y/o son, who MUST see this. A) To help preserve it, before it's potentially gone!

Well we have more than a week to do it. Even without a true bow, our nose will not sink because it contains air. There are videos of soobies on THIS site that indeed float as long as they are moving foreward, we simply want to extend this ability to stay on water a little longer, and to stop. If we truly need a bow front end, I will completely remove fenders, and make a bow angling from door with to radiator width. If we simply need either more flotation or stability, we will add removable pontoon bumpers ay both ends, which will weigh almost nothing & provide stability in both directions. Alternate bow front end, scroll down to Trippel, T77-Military in 1977 http://mitglied.lycos.de/amphicar/englisch/carlist5.html About 1/3 of amphibious cars on link I posted use only tires for propulsion. Mark Roehrig's "Amphi-Geo" worked so well that he is now reworking a school but for an amphib trip around the world. http://mitglied.lycos.de/amphicar/englisch/carlist5.html

Hey Zefy, we ran 2 TSD's in 2002, before a street racer in Oregon hit us headon in 2003 at 65MPH in a 25 MPH zone. The only reason we are still alive is that we drive a 24,000 lb highway coach (with $30,000 damage). All walked away, though still waiting for State Farm to pay for ANYTHING even though other party was charged (and found guilty) with dangerous driving, speeding, and causing an accident, and ruled 100% at fault by police! (Good neighbor? yeah right!) After a couple years later we are recovered & ready to rally again. In our first rally in 2002 I think we placed same as you. We spiked a tire on cattleguard in first 30 minutes. Then cooked an alternator in second stage. Missed the night stage while we bought a CHARGED battery & left stage to rebuild an alternator on the highway in the dark. At 11PM on Raceday1, we're in the parking lot of hotel asking EVERYONE that's still out for a fan belt, cause we now need a different size for spare alternator. A youth that worked at Hyundai in Kamloops, helped us out. He worked at dealer, drove us to his house to get key, then to delership at midnight to measure belts, left cash on the counter for his boss, then drove us back to hotel. Our Cowcar was back the next day to everyone's surprise. Race was around 500 miles, and no timed stages were on roads with much traffic, we mostly commuted on pavement, and rallied on gravel / snow. During non-timed stages, we had to make up for alternator & tire, so we MAY have sped to catch up with our next start time, cause I think I saw some blurred cars on my right driving backwards.Number 69 dude! http://www.rallybc.com/photos/2002/Tbird/betty3/car69darren.jpg Our second rally, Heart of Darkness was a night rally, started just before midnight I recall. We have mixed feelings about this event. After busting our humps all week to prep, we were in no shape for an all night rally off road. If we do THAT again, it will only be if we can prep on time to get there a day early with car completed (and some Red Bull). Best part was, first 2 stages were rained out by mudslides, so 70 of us "commuted" beautiful highway 5A at night to avoid the Coquihalla toll. I had never before "cruised" on a windy highway at night, with SEVENTY other buddies, not sure what the speed limit was on THAT one. Now THAT was a rush, headlights & tailights ar far as you could see, thrashing like a giant snake through the mountains! For anyone thinking of TSD, it's GREAT fun, not too competitive (at back of pack anyways), and not that hard on your car. It's more fun than stock car racing, and you can drive most any car. It's about prep, skill, teamwork, and timing accuracy. We entered in a convertible, open cars require a single hoop roll bar, and VW though to add one from factory that's a REAL roll bar.They tell you how fast & how far, what to do next, the closest time wins. Time must be calculated constantly by Navigator, my Nav is uncarsickable, so we're good to go. Our cost runs about $500/rally in Canada, mostly for 2 nights hotel & entry fee. Rest went towards fun, and doing work on car that need to be done anyways for our use. We now have an RV & a motor coach to flat tow with, so we'll have MUCH more fun, a little cheaper!

We seem to have the issue cleared up. It seems that anything will void your warranty, if it causes overheating or other failure. Thanks for the input.

That would be great! I could just(y) use a place to start. Had considered a winch mount that was removable and also moves to rear.

Anyone here TSD? Does Subaru void your warranty on engine parts & workmanship? We seem to be having an issue mid engine rebuild, that our dealer now says that they may not honor warranty if we use car for TSD rallying, which is what we told them it was for before rebuilding engine. Anyone have similar experiences? Bottom line is that we would have rebuilt it ourselves, but we wanted an engine sealed & warrantied by Subaru. Seems like a pointless effort & expense now. For anyone not familiar with TSD, we drive on open public roads with street legal insured cars, don't wear hlemets, and are required NOT to break the speed limit. On logging roads we are instructed to drive about 40 MPH, depending on event & terrain.

Good point, just challenge me to a race across water. What's better, 5 knots of glub, glub, glub... Don't worry though, the car will be camooflaged as a cow, so no one will notice it. My original Cowcar was in the Freemont Art Car Parade all over Seattle in 2001. It didn't float (that I know of), and was 2WD though. Looks like I will be seeing my first Amphicars up close in Seattle for "Opening Day Parade" (boats) next weekend.

Show me your rides & designs for lightweight bushbars. We are fabricating combo bushbar / light bar / pullout hooks / towing bracket to flat tow behind RV. Thinking of styling after old rusted Soobie bushbars, with add ons for towing. Pictures appreciated, has anyone got designs of one either as an image or CAD? Darren Sweet PictureChasers Photography darren@PictureChasers.com www.PictureChasers.com www.CelebrationofBeauty.com

Floating school bus to circumnavigate the world amphibiously http://mitglied.lycos.de/amphicar/wheelsea/wheelsea.htm

A few amphib cars from the past. http://mitglied.lycos.de/amphicar/englisch/carlist.html The Amphicar and many others simply used tires for propulsion. The plan is to only achieve 5 knots. No water skiing with this soobie. Our criteria involves a water crossing say 50' across and too deep to drive, with a 30 degree incline at sides. I will hope for up to 45 degree shore capability but require 30. I know we will never get out if shore is 30 degrees and muddy. Tires partially submerged would be ideal, but I calculate (with several assumptions) that we will ride close to top of tires in water, with tires mostly or all submerged but not deep. While I am NO engineer, I believe that the wheel bottoms will provide propulsion foreward. While the TOP of the wheel is indeed going foreward and still moving some water, that water is trapped by fenders and I think will mostly churn around. If we remain high enough to keep air in the fenders then I think this will help as well. Backup plan is an electric trolling motor. Though I had not yet thought of tying controls to car. We could turn steering wheel, front tires assist in steering and fishing motor turns as well, I kinda like that. Darren Sweet PictureChasers Photography darren@PictureChasers.com www.PictureChasers.com www.CelebrationofBeauty.com

Have considered a removable exhaust snorkel. Still my favorite option if my own P-trap air system doesnt work out. It's manual. Gear shift an interesting question. At this time I am planning to tub engine bay, but must let drivetrain out. Have considered including transmission in my engine bay tub, to keep it dry, then do the tub sealing mostly to the trans, and leave the shafts freely protruding from my waterproofing tub. Originally planned this flotation for Rabbit convertible, but needed 4wd to get out of water, among other things. We will use our convertible for our initial "flotation" tests, for easy exit. Planning to sink the Rabbit a few times in stock trim, to see HOW & hopefully WHY it sinks. Upgrading seals around doors from a larger car for thicker door molding, water will push in on door & assist seal once door begins to submerge. Hoping that water will only run about 9-10 inches from BOTTOM of door opening. No idea how yet, but plan to have secondary door latch of some kind, mostly to prevent human error and trying to opening the door. Emergency egress is through the window. It's a 2 door, and I don't think we will allow anyone in back seat during any serious flotation for safety reasons. Darren Sweet PictureChasers Photography darren@PictureChasers.com http://www.PictureChasers.com http://www.CelebrationofBeauty.com

The exhaust snorkel would be a last resort, I would prefer not to look like "Smokey and the Bandit". I dont even really want an intake snorkel cause many figure they are only for show, but don't see much choice. What if the exhaust tip went straight down from muffler for a few inches to the exhaust tip? I wonder if the air in the exhaust will keep out the water trying to get in, exactly the reverse of a P-trap under a sink? If the air in the exhaust upon stall can't escape the down section of exhaust, and the exhaust has no leaks, then no room for water! Maybe my P-trap idea and a flapper either at the tip or in the pipe somewhere? Darren Sweet PictureChasers Photography darren@PictureChasers.com www.PictureChasers.com www.CelebrationofBeauty.com

Ours has only fender rust that's visible, was pretty well cared for, that's why we picked this one. Will have small sump pumping from engine bay, floor & spare tire compartment for any leaks or splashes. We plan windows open during all nautical operations, to prevent a death trap. Have no plans to ever swim more than a few yards from land, the stuff we want to see & photograph will be at the edges of water, not in the middle. What about water getting in exhaust if engine shuts down, does it need to be above water, or does some miracle (or even a P-trap) keep the water out of exhaust when you stall during water crossings? Darren Sweet PictureChasers Photography darren@PictureChasers.com www.PictureChasers.com www.CelebrationofBeauty.com

Good one Ross, you had me worried so I went to check. PLEASE if anyone finds a flaw in my rough theory speak up. I am a photographer, not an engineer Jim! It seems that to float anything, it must simply weigh less than the water it displaces. Ignoring for nor both stability & saftey simply to test feasability . Let's assume the Justy will weigh 2000 lbs both stripped down & beefed up. Likely more but I need a round number. Fresh water weighs roughly 8 lbs per gallon. This car will displace very roughly 250 gallons of water, hopefully surface water, not deep water. If the Justy measures about 60" wide by 145" long, or about 8700 square inches. The first inch of my theoretical Justy would be 8700 CUBED inches. 8700 cubed inches divided by 0.004329 = 37 gallons for this theoretical inch. In my abstract reasoning, simply to determine if possible says that if the Justy were a cube, and it sunk an inch (draw), it would displace about 37 gallons of water. We need 250 gallons, or close to 7" IF THE JUSTY WERE A CUBE. So if the Justy were a box, my guess is it would sink (draw) about 7" (should have bought a Volvo?). Assuming the engine bay will be sealed somewhere near floor level, here's the factors I already know must be factored in. - Wheel wells won't be sealed, and must be subtracted from car mass - also subtract mass that doesnt exist at both ends of car below bumpers - Air in tires will want to float, anyone know how to calculate that? The swamper guys know it's no laughing matter, but what about on a 175/60R-13. I know my Cherokee threw my 15" spoked steel front wheel a mile over a cliff, and it floated. I suspect that 4 tires mounted at corners will act as outriggers and add at least some stability. I do not plan to go surfing in any wave action. Should I actually need more area to displace water, the Monster Garage guys extended the bumper of their Swamp Buggy Beetle a few inches at both ends, filled with some 2 part foam that I need a good source for. This would assist with bouyancy and greatly improve stability by being at extreme ends, the full width of the car. Hoping to not require these pontoon bumpers, but mine would be removable & weigh almost nothing. I am estimating & hoping that car will ride just below top of tires in still water. Any engineers out there got any ideas, or a reason why it simply won't work? Darren Sweet PictureChasers Photography darren@PictureChasers.com www.PictureChasers.com www.CelebrationofBeauty.com