michaelbteam Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) Looked through the threads for similar complaints, no luck, so hoping the gurus can advise me! Put my 97 OB wagon [225K miles] on jackstands to diagnose slight shudder. [Driveshaft was very recently replaced, also trans mount, and used auto trans installed.] BUT what i found was with car running in drive, the right front axle is not turning, and with a stethoscope there seems to be an internal clicking coming from the transaxle [or is that the differential?] on that side. The right wheel turns freely by hand, no brake rubbing or wheel bearing binding, and YES the pin is IN the axle. Axle stubs on both sides have some play, and my other 96 [manual] OB wagon has no play in the axle stubs. With the car running in the air, left front and both rear wheels are receiving power, right front wheel is stopped. Seems like the transaxle is shot?? Thanks for any advice. Edited September 23, 2009 by michaelbteam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log1call Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Leave the left front wheel on the ground and jack the right front wheel off the ground. Put the car in gear or park then try turning the right hand wheel. If it wont turn then it was just the diffaction letting it not turn. If it does turn have a look at the axle as you turn the wheel and see if the axle turns. If the axle turns then the trouble is in the diff or inner cv joint. If the axle doesn't turn then the problem is in the outer cv joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelbteam Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 Thanks, Log, will give it a try. Discovered front diff was way too full, so changing it now and checking for particles. I've seen wheels turn at different speeds [diffaction?] but never had one stand still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 incidentally, what brand of axle did you use? There are pages and pages of posts complaining of shudders and vibration due to poor quality axles on legacys. MWE or OEM seem to be the only reliable choice. I'm not saying you can't get lucky with a store-bought axle, just that those two reportedly have the least chance of failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash321 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 You will also want to make sure that the axles are seated securely in the transaxle. This can cause all the problems you describe also. Since they are wobbly, I would suspect either worn splines or axles that are not properly seated. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelbteam Posted September 24, 2009 Author Share Posted September 24, 2009 So, I over-reacted, there is power to the wheel. However, I drained the diff and 68 ounces came out instead of the 1.3 qts it's supposed to take. [about 41 oz.] I just bought this car, I wonder what other surprises there are? The inner axle stubs are loose in the diff, I wonder if the over-fill can affect that? Probably the source of the vibration. Thanks for your support, comrades! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) Over filling wouldn't cause the stubs to feel loose. A new axle has new grease in it. New grease is thicker than old grease, therefore you get more drag (resistance) when trying to turn the new axle than trying to turn the old one. The front diff is "open", so one wheel can be completely stopped, while the other spins about twice as fast due to the ratio change that happens when the differential spins. You might not feel this difference in drag, but the effect is that one wheel is basically held in place almost like the brake is on. The other side (lower drag) is able to spin freely because of the action of the differential. Give the non spinning wheel a nudge by hand and see how it reacts. Lots of things can cause vibration. What is happening with the car when you notice the vibration? Edited September 24, 2009 by Fairtax4me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelbteam Posted September 24, 2009 Author Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) Thanks, Fairtax. As an occasional "backyard" mechanic I am always relearning lessons. Both inner axle stubs have play, side to side, not in and out. Maybe the splines are worn,? 225K mi. on the car. The vibration is an "even" hum at speed, no variation. Changed rear diff fluid, seems fine back there. New driveshaft and trans mount, all seems tight. Wheel bearings "seem" fine, brakes are new, ball joints and tie rod ends tight. Not sure about steering rack. Also, tires are evenly worn and I even swapped wheels and tires with my other outback, same result. Still searching, thanks for your input. Edited September 24, 2009 by michaelbteam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 The stubs are probably fine. Axle vibrations are usually most noticeable when accelerating (wobbling). You'll also usually get a harmonic type of shimmy similar to what you would feel with a bad U joint. It will come and go at certain speeds, and you might feel a clunk when going from drive to reverse. I'm thinking either a wheel bearing or tread noise from the tires. Wheel bearings are the hardest to test when on the drive wheels of any car. Best thing to try is jack up the car, grab the top and bottom of each wheel, and try to rock it back and forth. There should not be any play. If there is any noticeable movement, its likely to be the bearing or the ball joint. Have a friend rock the wheel while you look at the ball joint and the inner side of the hub for movement. A good place to watch is the outer cv joint. On non-driven wheels its easy, you just spin the wheel as fast as you can and listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log1call Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Just to elaborate on the wheel bearing test... You grab it top and bottom and push in at the top as you pull out at the bottom, then pull out at the top as you push in at the bottom. I have seen people try to push and pull the whole wheel in and out which won't show anything. If, when you rock it, there is any play from the wheel bearings then they are suspect. You can check the axle nut is tight and you can spin them and listen for a rumble. You can also drive down an empty street and swerve from side t side moderatly hard. If there is a rumbling noise that comes and goes as the car leans on one wheel or the other then that will probably be a wheel bearing. From the discription as a "hum", and an even hum, though, I'd suspect it is trye noise you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash321 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 just to elaborate on the wheel bearing test...You grab it top and bottom and push in at the top as you pull out at the bottom, then pull out at the top as you push in at the bottom. I have seen people try to push and pull the whole wheel in and out which won't show anything. If, when you rock it, there is any play from the wheel bearings then they are suspect. You can check the axle nut is tight and you can spin them and listen for a rumble. You can also drive down an empty street and swerve from side t side moderatly hard. If there is a rumbling noise that comes and goes as the car leans on one wheel or the other then that will probably be a wheel bearing. From the discription as a "hum", and an even hum, though, i'd suspect it is trye noise you have. +1:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelbteam Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share Posted September 29, 2009 I appreciate all of your comments. Interestingly, the vibration "seems" to be significantly less since I changed the diff. and put in the correct amount of gear oil, incidently synthetic. It had 64 oz. in it when 41 are called for. When I checked the wheels there did not seem to be any play in the bearings or ball joints, but of course I could be mistaken. The slight vibration is the same with two completely different sets of wheels and tire brands. Both axle stubs in the diff are quite loose and I don't know if there is any remedy except diff overhaul. [?] 226 K miles, A/T. I guess I'll drive it until it breaks!?! Thanks again comrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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