Idasho Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I just finished putting my 4-speed back together. I had is apart to replace the input shaft seal, axle seals, and shifter seal. Everything went smoothly. I even managed to keep track of all the little bits in the transfer case. Springs, balls, etc... Now that I have it back together though, Im concerned about the shifting. The trans is still sitting on the shop floor, with the shifter rock mounted. The thing seems to be stuck in neutral. I can get a bit of forward and back movement out of the shifter, as well as all the way to the right, feeling the spring loaded detent for reverse. And looking at some of the photos I took as I went through it, I never touched anything related to the shifting. The only innards I touched was associated with the input shaft. Should I be concerned? Do you think the whole thing need to be spun a bit, and lubed for the shifter guts to start working properly? Thanks for any help. Id hate to get thins thing all the way back into the car to realize I need to pull it right back out again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idasho Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 A small change. It looks like it is stuck in gear. Any help? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjw Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I don't think anyone is ignoring your post, it's just that it's really hard to diagnose. I know you should be able to run thru the gears by hand without the advantage of the shift lever. I've done that plenty of times. Personally, I'd have someone spin the input shaft while I tried to shift the thing. If that didn't work, I'd body slam it a couple times. And then try it. But that's just me. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idasho Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 Thanks for the response. I know this is a tough one. Everything seems to be spinning fine, no binding or weird noises. And I had already tried spinning the input shaft while trying to shift it. No luck. I think (hope) its just bound up from being drained and fiddled with. Unless somebody else has some input, Im going to chance it and install it. Fingers crosses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idasho Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Bah.... I cannot do it. My help flaked on me this evening. We were going to reinstall the trans. I guess Ill go through the thing again. Stay tuned. Im going to take LOTS of photos this time. I might as well put together a photo-how-to. Er... or maybe how-to-not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idasho Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Well, Im glad I tore it apart. As I got deeper, I started to think that I had dug back into it for no reason. I couldnt find anything wrong. Just as I was about to start prepping the case halves to go back together I spotted it. One of the 4wd Low range syncronizer slides was missing. It had fallen off when I pulled the input shaft out to replace the input shaft seal. Thanks to my trusty magnet, I was able to find it, hiding in the gear oil behind the ring gear. So I guess it was stuck in low range, and the slight binding was holding the trans in gear. As soon as I pulled the input shaft out again, the trans shift rods and forks moved freely. Still, it was a PAIN to get the slides back together, along with the two springs. I think this must be assembled out of the case, vertical on the bench. Even with heavy wheel bearing grease they didnt want to stay put. I managed to get it back together though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjw Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Wait! That hole in the side of the forward bearing, in pic number 1, is suppose to find a pin in the bearing shell. You probably know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjw Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Hmm. Maybe not. I can see the bearing shell in the second pic. I don't see a locating pin. Unless it's in the other half of the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idasho Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Wait! That hole in the side of the forward bearing, in pic number 1, is suppose to find a pin in the bearing shell. You probably know that. Nope, that is a depression that holds an oil guide in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjw Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Nope, that is a depression that holds an oil guide in place. Well, I'm glad you got it working. I had trouble with the sycro sliders as well. Seems they just fell out and I had to look for wear marks and such to determine they're correct position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idasho Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 it isnt quite working just yet.... I still have to reassemble the transfer case and tail housing to the main case! And I think by the time I get it back into the car, Ill be a 4speed expert. Silly really, after all the work Ive done to this trans, Im still out less than $25. Stay tuned. I took LOADS of digital photos. And I will be putting a very helpful 4speed service guide together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HATCHY Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Thankfully I live 20 minutes from both pull a part junkyards. LOL. I could never rebuild a tranny or even take It apart. I do all my work in the Weather in the mud on the ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HATCHY Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Congratulations though man. That's sick you fixed It Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idasho Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Thankfully I live 20 minutes from both pull a part junkyards. LOL. I could never rebuild a tranny or even take It apart. I do all my work in the Weather in the mud on the ground So you spend what, $50 bucks and a few hours every time you swap out a questionable trans?? That sounds silly, when you can spend less than half that to completely reseal one, in just a few more hours. Then you have one that you KNOW will not spring a leak in 100k+ miles. Even this trans has less than 140k miles on it. The input shaft seal basically fell apart when I pulled it out it was so brittle. I can safely assume that any junk yard trans you will find will have an input shaft seal in similar condition. Either leaking, or damn near it. Thats my take anyways. Especially now that Im familiar with this particular trans. I could tear one down in less than an hour now. Hell if there is the interest, I can offer the service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idasho Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Well, I'm glad you got it working. I had trouble with the sycro sliders as well. Seems they just fell out and I had to look for wear marks and such to determine they're correct position. I learned a bit more as things went back together tonight. The lever on the drivers side of the trans that actuates the low range can hyper-rotate allowing those slides to pop out or bind up. Funny that the case doesnt have a stop to keep this from happening. If the case is together and the low range shaft from the transfer case to the front of the trans is removed, and you rotate the lever all the way back, the sliders will pop out, and you will be stuck cracking the case..... again.... dont ask me how I know.... TWICE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 When you get it back together and working, the satifsfaction will be worth it. I built a 5spd D/R using a transmission I found dumped in the state forest and one I blew up. We mixed and matched and swapped to get the best parts out of each into one unit, torqued it all to spec with an impact gun, and tossed it back in the car. It made it another 6 months before chunks got caught between the ring gear and the case and blew the bottom of the case apart. That was pretty average longevity for transmissions I was pulling out of junk cars, so I was pleased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Wait! That hole in the side of the forward bearing, in pic number 1, is suppose to find a pin in the bearing shell. You probably know that. Good thought, but no. That hole is where it's supposed to be. The bearing has 3bolts to locate it on the face, and they are corect. Thhose holes are for a thin metal shield that acts as a oil scraper and director for proper lubrication of the D/R gears. The shield has 2 prongs on a flange that clip into that hole, and another on the other side. (not shown) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPGvan Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 more transmission pics please:popcorn: i have a 83 brat 4speed... i know nothing about these transmissions.. i have been so busy fixing other things in between the rain drops that i haven't had time to even look at the transmission... i finally got it licensed and tabbed a little over 2weeks ago.. the first road trip was almost scary..lol very loud gear noise mixed with grinding sounds so i replaced both front cv joints.. the car feels a little tighter.. but still loud growling, loose, clunking sounds especially when lugging the motor.. the linkage (if it has linkage) feels VERY SLOPPY and easily pops out of gear if not firmly placed all the way into gear.. <at this time it is my only source of transportation> so i just want to put a band-aid on this problem... i was thinking about adding Powerpunch or STP oil treatment to the transmission and maybe quiet it down enough to find out if the noise is cumming from the tranny or elsewhere... also i would like to know what it would take to tighten up the linkage.. does it have linkage? can i replace a few bushings or maybe adjust the linkage or shifter to take some of the slop out??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPGvan Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 more transmission pics please:popcorn: i have a 83 brat 4speed... i know nothing about these transmissions.. i have been so busy fixing other things in between the rain drops that i haven't had time to even look at the transmission... i finally got it licensed and tabbed a little over 2weeks ago.. the first road trip was almost scary..lol very loud gear noise mixed with grinding sounds so i replaced both front cv joints.. the car feels a little tighter.. but still loud growling, loose, clunking sounds especially when lugging the motor.. the linkage (if it has linkage) feels VERY SLOPPY and easily pops out of gear if not firmly placed all the way into gear.. <at this time it is my only source of transportation> so i just want to put a band-aid on this problem... i was thinking about adding Powerpunch or STP oil treatment to the transmission and maybe quiet it down enough to find out if the noise is cumming from the tranny or elsewhere... also i would like to know what it would take to tighten up the linkage.. does it have linkage? can i replace a few bushings or maybe adjust the linkage or shifter to take some of the slop out??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idasho Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 Ill get some more photos up for you shortly. Is there anything in specific you need shots of? As for the linkage, check out this thread... http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=86901 There are a few methods of repair for the sloppy linkage. I tried the bolt method, only to find it still didnt help much. I drilled it out to 3/8, and drive a 10mm roll pin into the hole. Then bolted it to hold the pin in place (not that it needed it) More of a precaution, at best. Ill get some more photos up for you shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idasho Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 here are a couple of photos that should help you. This is your trans... This is your trans stood on end for a service: THIS is the linkage in question.... Look for the grade 8 gold colored bolt. That is the "3/8 bolt fix" But it still leaves room for improvement. I do remember a new fix, that involves actually tapping the shaft to thread a bolt in, but that requires some tools that most do not have at their disposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPGvan Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Thanks Idasho the detailed pictures will be most helpful i look forward to seeing them... i just haven't had the time lately to even opening the hood... i don't have a shop and lately it seems when i do have the time its ether raining or dark...lol hopefully by previewing the pics and reading instructions i can gather the tools needed and cut the repair time in half Thanks Again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPGvan Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 oh Idasho.. sorry i didn't see your posts i went to this from bookmarks.. i guess i need to reload the page each time to see new posts...... i do have a Tap-Die set and i don't see the rol pin you are talking about.. i need to go back and read the full link you posted again... sory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPGvan Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 after checking out the link you included i think the problem could be the top of the bolt hitting the case. because 4th and reverse is a real pain.... it also makes noise if i rest my hand on the shift-knob while driving i guess i will have to get off the couch grab the flashlight and inspect the lower bushing/rubber sleeve, see if the bolt is hitting the case in 4th and reverse and check roll pin for slop... THANKS GUYS i know what to look for during my inspection and the items needed to fix it:clap: does any one know where to find a lower bushing/rubber seal if needed??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idasho Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 The dealer is your best bet. So far the local dealer here has been able to get me every part I need. And has yet to hand me an incorrect part. Im really impressed with Subarus parts database. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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