o_m_o Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Okay. Between the serious lack of gasket longevity in my Loyale's 1.8 motor, and the transmission problems of the 4EAT in my 92 Legacy, I really need some advice on what can be swapped between the two cars. I prefer the reliability I've seen in the 2.2 in mine, and it really seems in my best interest to invest in taking the swap solely for that purpose alone... I understand the long laundry list of parts that would need swapped -- but are they truly "bolt up" to the Loyale? Moreso, does the generation I have's 5 speed tranny have some sort of control unit? I'm told the 4EAT does and that it would be otherwise painful to incorporate that into my swap. I'm just looking for some answers. They'd be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor pole Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 what is in your Loyale? a/t or manual? if you are willing to take and strip down your legacy for the swap, go for it. Having a running parts car is what I want to do it when I finally end up doing an EJ in my wagon. what questions are you trying to have answered exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_m_o Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) what is in your Loyale? a/t or manual? if you are willing to take and strip down your legacy for the swap, go for it. Having a running parts car is what I want to do it when I finally end up doing an EJ in my wagon. what questions are you trying to have answered exactly? Both cars are FWD... The Loyale is a 5 speed, and the Legacy is a 4EAT. This swap is not going to be used for a 4WD conversion, either, and I'd like to do as little cutting/fabricating as possible, as this is my first swap. I understand the long laundry list of parts that would need swapped -- but are they truly "bolt up" to the Loyale? I know of what could be involved... I'm really simply looking for a short list of what can be swapped from one car to the other, based on the above. From the suspension to, well, anything that would really need beefed up. I'm beginning to be inclined to keep the Loyale's transmission, though, I'm most concerned if it will hold up against the 2.2L's powerbands without eating the transmission. This is only a technology swap with an emphasis on reliability in the long term, and I'm not trying to increase my power in any way. Over all else? I'm not fixing the Legacy. I hit a deer with it and creased the engine rail. Sure it drives fine, but, I'm already noticing it starting to warp, and the door's are starting to close funny. So once I'm done with the swap, whatever's left is going... Pfft. Anywhere. Hell I'd even be open to parting it out if anyone needs what's left. Edited January 18, 2012 by o_m_o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Almost nothing is a "bolt on" swap. You can mate the 2.2 to your 5spd, but you will need an adapter plate, and a redrilled 5spd flywheel.(redrilled to fit on the EJ22) It will be totally reliable, as long as you can resist lots of full throttle launches. Hammer on it hard, and the 5spd won't hold up long. You should read the EA to EJ swap sticky thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Yeah there is no bolt-up between EA and EJ chassis. Everything requires modification. The EJ could be put in the Loyale but I dare say it's not worth the effort on a 2WD body. What hangs up most people is the wiring. If you aren't good with wireing and electrical then what you will end up with is a nightmare that will be anything but reliable. If I were you - I would pull the EA82 and reseal it properly - get your gaskets from the dealer and replace applicable one's like the oil pan with something like Anearobic or RTV. You CAN make them leak free long-term. I've done it for people before. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_m_o Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Almost nothing is a "bolt on" swap. You can mate the 2.2 to your 5spd, but you will need an adapter plate, and a redrilled 5spd flywheel.(redrilled to fit on the EJ22) It will be totally reliable, as long as you can resist lots of full throttle launches. Hammer on it hard, and the 5spd won't hold up long. You should read the EA to EJ swap sticky thread. I did read the sticky thread, which is the only reason I asked about the mating the two together. I also know about the adapter plate, it's the precise reason I asked. The thing is, my Loyale's engine and tranny are both very rough. They "function", but at 67K? I'd rather have the 2.2L with 117K that I did the timing belts at 70K on when I got it. I'd rather have that engine in the car I often receive 450 miles from a tank of gas in out of the same 12 gallons (IE, I don't often put more than a quarter or half throttle down... I stopped racing years ago...) Obviously things are going to have be tweaked a bit, like the spare tire holder under the hood for example... Or the part about the engine mount bolts needing to be bent a certain way... Having different cooling fans... I mean I'm not beyond knowing these things... But does it just otherwise nestle down in there when mated to that tranny? That's the question I really need answered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_m_o Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 If I were you - I would pull the EA82 and reseal it properly - get your gaskets from the dealer and replace applicable one's like the oil pan with something like Anearobic or RTV. You CAN make them leak free long-term. I've done it for people before. I touched on this subject in the reply to Gloyale. The EJ engine also appears to be the relatively same weight as the EA's... So I'm only trying to find out what actual "modifcations", physically, need to be made to the Loyale in order to make it work. As for the wiring, I'm not deterred by it. It's just a matter of taking the time and, as the PDF says, getting down to what is "necessary" to make it work, properly, and not rushing the final outcome. It's been two months to lead me to this decision, and I've already put down the garage space to get the cars in there. I just need to know what works with what from the engine to the rest of the Loyale, specifically. Nothing else really matters entirely, and I greatly appreciate you guys taking the time out to answer these questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 But does it just otherwise nestle down in there when mated to that tranny? That's the question I really need answered. Yes. Mechanically speaking all you need is the adaptor plate and to modify the bolt pattern on your EA flex-plate to bolt up to the EJ crank. The engine will drop right in and sit there as if it were designed to do so. Cooling system modifications will be needed - some fiddling with radiator hoses and it's a huge benefit to have 1.5" inlet/outlet soldered into the EA radiator tanks. Fans have to go in front of the radiator to make room for the larger engine. Power steering lines just bolt up, etc. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_m_o Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 Yes. Mechanically speaking all you need is the adaptor plate and to modify the bolt pattern on your EA flex-plate to bolt up to the EJ crank. The engine will drop right in and sit there as if it were designed to do so. Cooling system modifications will be needed - some fiddling with radiator hoses and it's a huge benefit to have 1.5" inlet/outlet soldered into the EA radiator tanks. Fans have to go in front of the radiator to make room for the larger engine. Power steering lines just bolt up, etc. GD Awesome, that's the best thing I've heard in two months! After having read over the writeup again, can the XT6 flywheel be bolted on just the way it is to my EJ engine? Wasn't sure what the story is with that, or whether it also needed to be redrilled in the same manner, or if the clutch kit from it can be used in the same manner to perhaps reduce strain on the EA82 tranny since it's referred to being used for "street cars". Also, erm, flex plate should otherwise be equal to a flywheel, if I'm not mistaken? In either case, thank you again for your time, GD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Oh right - the EA82 is a 5 speed.... being a 2WD it will use a 200mm clutch assortment.... you could use an XT6 flywheel and pressure plate but you would need to use a 225mm disc for an 83/84 4 speed 4WD as well as the TOB holder for the 4 speed and the TOB from an 80's nissan 720 pickup truck.... should work but it will be a strange combo that you'll have to peice together as no one makes a kit with that drunken assortment in it . GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_m_o Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 Oh right - the EA82 is a 5 speed.... being a 2WD it will use a 200mm clutch assortment.... you could use an XT6 flywheel and pressure plate but you would need to use a 225mm disc for an 83/84 4 speed 4WD as well as the TOB holder for the 4 speed and the TOB from an 80's nissan 720 pickup truck.... should work but it will be a strange combo that you'll have to peice together as no one makes a kit with that drunken assortment in it . GD It does sound a bit like something you'd come up with at a bar, that's for sure! Even so, I'm probably going to order the adapter kit with the flywheel since it seems to be the way to simplify this entire process. Does that kit also include the offset bolts? And what other bolts would I use to rebolt it, anyway? I imagine the ones off the EJ tranny since they are the correct thread/dia. as the holes on the engine. I'm going to harbor freight next week to buy the jacks and such. I'll be sure to post some photos of the progress once I get the Legacy settled into the garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Oh right - the EA82 is a 5 speed.... being a 2WD it will use a 200mm clutch assortment.... you could use an XT6 flywheel and pressure plate but you would need to use a 225mm disc for an 83/84 4 speed 4WD as well as the TOB holder for the 4 speed and the TOB from an 80's nissan 720 pickup truck.... should work but it will be a strange combo that you'll have to peice together as no one makes a kit with that drunken assortment in it . GD Uhmmm....... correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't he just redrill his existing flywheel(whatever it's dimensions) and then install his whole existing clutch assembly with the EJ? I mean.......he's got all the parts to work with the trans......just needs to fit his flywheel to the new engine.....correct? So he'd still just need to buy an EA82 2wd 5spd kit any time he needed it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_m_o Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Uhmmm....... correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't he just redrill his existing flywheel(whatever it's dimensions) and then install his whole existing clutch assembly with the EJ? I mean.......he's got all the parts to work with the trans......just needs to fit his flywheel to the new engine.....correct? So he'd still just need to buy an EA82 2wd 5spd kit any time he needed it? This is the impression I'm being given through the writeups. Though I'm starting to also debate just finding any cheap auto and just sucking up what I don't like about the Legacy (IE it being automatic, parts being more expensive). After all... The tranny IS the only thing I've ever had go wrong with it. Get another 50K and it's worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Uhmmm....... correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't he just redrill his existing flywheel(whatever it's dimensions) and then install his whole existing clutch assembly with the EJ? Sure he could - but he asked about an XT6 flywheel - so that's the answer I gave him. :-p I assumed he was talking about the one Turbone has for sale in the marketplace.... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 What's actually wrong with the auto trans in the legacy? Did you pull any codes from the TCU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 What's actually wrong with the auto trans in the legacy? Did you pull any codes from the TCU? No TCU, it a 3AT.....purely mechanical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I don't think any legacy's came with the 3at... The FWD 5spd is in the Loyale, the supposedly dead FWD 4eat is in the Legacy, which is why he wants to swap the EJ22 into the Loyale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_m_o Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 I don't think any legacy's came with the 3at... The FWD 5spd is in the Loyale, the supposedly dead FWD 4eat is in the Legacy, which is why he wants to swap the EJ22 into the Loyale. Correct. I am missing 4th and Reverse on my Legacy. I had been told this could be the whole tranny, the diff, or the torque converter (same thing?), it'd be some at least $1500 to have a shop do. I'm going to spend tomorrow (today) calling around and at least checking on prices for it, because I after thinking about it, I don't want to tear apart the reliable car. Still leaves me up on the Loyale tho, but the garage space is the same for either car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I don't think any legacy's came with the 3at... The FWD 5spd is in the Loyale, the supposedly dead FWD 4eat is in the Legacy, which is why he wants to swap the EJ22 into the Loyale. Sorry...my bad.....I was confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It would be better to find a legacy or impreza 2wd 5spd and swap it into the loyale with your 2.2l than try to adapt the EA 5spd to it. Little bit more work with the transmission crossmember and shifter, but shouldn't be complicated. Much better than an adapter plate and redrilled flywheel. A used EJ FWD trans would probably be cheaper too. 4th and reverse are definitely transmission issues. If the diff or TC was gone, you wouldn't have any gears. You can use an AWD 4eat if you have a hard time finding a good 2wd one in a junkyard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 It would be better to find a legacy or impreza 2wd 5spd and swap it into the loyale with your 2.2l than try to adapt the EA 5spd to it. Little bit more work with the transmission crossmember and shifter, but shouldn't be complicated. Much better than an adapter plate and redrilled flywheel. A used EJ FWD trans would probably be cheaper too. Adapter plates are fine great. Hundreds of guys use them. You can get them from ranging from $100-$200, or make one. And the flywheel can be hogged out with a dremel and a carbide bit in about an hour. From there, zero modification to the car. Seems like the easier, tried and true, bolt in way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If you look at Numchux's ea-ej guide, you'll notice that the picture of the adapter plate is the one I machined out at home on the Bridgeport out of scrap aluminum. So... being intimately familiar with adapting the two, why would I recommend using an EJ FWD 5spd? It's a cleaner swap. You use standard EJ clutch parts, not mix and match, the drivetrain bolts together properly so anyone can work on it using a standard book. The CV axles should fit right on, a FWD impreza was 23 spline like a FWD loyale. You could probably reuse the EA shift linkage on the EJ FWD trans, or adapting the EJ linkage to the EA body is pretty straight forward. Same with the transmission cross member. Two easily changable parts that can be put together in a non-precise manner and are hidden under the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You could probably reuse the EA shift linkage on the EJ FWD trans, or adapting the EJ linkage to the EA body is pretty straight forward. Same with the transmission cross member. Two easily changable parts that can be put together in a non-precise manner and are hidden under the car. I disagree. Fabbing shifter and crossmemeber to fit precisely is not easy. And buying another trans, EJ flywheel, and a new clutch.....will cost more than an adapter and redrilled flywheel. To each there own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 For most people the adaptor plate would be easier because they lack the ability to fab the shifter and the cross-member. Adaptor and flywheel are availible to order from folks like SJR and others. No one out there makes the linkage and cross-member parts for an EJ 2WD transplant. If you can fab then the linkage and cross-member would probably be cheaper. But then you have to buy a transmission. Not that 2WD EJ transmissions are real expensive.... Just depends on your time, money, and abilities. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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