mikeamondo Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 My brother's 1995 Legacy wagon has an issue... 2.2L AWD auto, 180k. It both would not start, and then not shift out of park. I suspected that perhaps the shift lock release solenoid was gummed up from spilled coke or what have you.... so we took off the console parts and had a look.... the solenoid is clean and moves instantly when it does work. Turns out the issue is intermittent, so we began some testing and discovered the following.... Sometimes the ignition will not function, and the solenoid does not operate. Sometimes the ignition will operate, car will start, and the solenoid still does not operate and you can't shift. Sometimes the car will start and the solenoid will shift and operate fine. Put the car in park, shut if off and it may or may not start again. NOTE ... in it's non-start mode, turning the key to the start position yields a humming sound, but the engine does not turn. CLUE ALERT! We discovered that in the non-start mode, if we simultaneously held the brake, turned the key to the start position and pushed FORWARD on the gear shift rather hard, it would often go ahead and turn over and start. Pushing in the button on the gear shifter does result in a click in the ignition switch. The solenoid works intermittently.... so even when the engine does start, the solenoid may not operate. The car can of course still be operated by using a screw driver to push down the release lever to allow shifting, provided we can make it start.... SO...... the system seems to be a combination of the ignition switch, switch on the brake pedal, the solenoid, the manual button on the shifter, and a tiny switch on the passenger side of the gear shifter. Which of these makes the most sense as the culprit and how should we proceed? Also.... solenoids tend to work or not, correct? So does the fact that we see it work occasionally rule it out? Thanks for looking! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 It sounds like the neutral safety switch is malfunctioning. Basically the car doesn't know what gear it is in so it will not start or allow shifting. It's on the transmission not inside the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeamondo Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 Ah... so yet another possibility... Does the neutral safety switch fit the symptom that pushing forward on the gear shifter would 'fix' the issue and let the car start? With the shifter in park, foot on the brake, key turned to 'start'.... you hear a hum, but it doesn't turn over.... and then you push on the gear selector .... (only moves a fraction of an inch to the stop)... and something connects to let the car start... turns over and starts. We repeated that test several times.... enough to believe it's not a coincidence that it fired at that instant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeamondo Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 By the way... what is the function of the really small switch at the base of the shifting mechanism on the passenger side? It has a couple or three black wires attached. Seems activated by shifting out of and back into park...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) https://mega.co.nz/#!XxwRnKQI!MIFxw2L4DacFXxa6SbYgOmh8Rv4vyNoCfo6cIiFzHJw That's the FSM for a '95. I would check the shift linkage (may be out of whack) along with the inhibitor switch. But it also sounds like you might have a failing brake sensor as well. Basically it sounds like you are having two issues, they me be related only to the shift cable. 1.) Vehicle does not start in Park/Neutral 2.) Vehicle does not shift when started (intermittent). A no crank scenario like that tends to lead me to believe the inhibitor switch (neutral safety switch) is out of wack, but it could also be the cable causing it to register incorrectly (possibility). Unable to shift is usually related to not recognizing the brake is depressed, different signal. Edited July 19, 2015 by lstevens76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 it sounds like the shifter is worn and not telling the car it is in P. shove forward on the shift selector and it engages properly. next time it happens, release the shift lock manually, and shift into N. see if it will start then. i think on the auto trans the NSS is called a shift inhibitor, or something like that. a short term solution is to put a rubber band on the shift lock , eliminating the locking aspect. that way when it will not start, you can easily shift to N and start the car. ALWAYS set the parking brake. you do not want ot shift out of P by accident when parked on a hill. also try the horn when the shift lock will not release the shifter. it may prove to be a wiring problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeamondo Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 @johnceggelston -- the idea of the car not know whether it's in park or not makes sense, especially with 180k on the ticker. Where would the 'worn' bits be.... in the shifter mechanism or down on the tranny? How would we fix it? Also.... I'm assuming if the horn does not work when the car won't start, that would indicate a wiring issue.... how are the horn and ignition related? And to all.... a couple more questions. Is the neutral safety switch 'easy', 'hard' or 'gonna cost you a knuckle or two' to change? How about cost? And..... the same questions on the brake pedal switch.... hard to change? Cost? I haven't laid down in the floor yet to look for it. Looking for the cheapest, easiest solution to start with..... thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeamondo Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 and... @lstevens76... thanks for the link to the FSM... did not even know what it was until it downloaded, but holy crap what an awesome resource! Do you happen to have the link for an 03 Outback 2.5 Legacy? Thanks! M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 i have not done this repair, but i think the item is bolted to the side of the auto trans. when in park, it connects certain wires. when shifted , it connects other wires, telling the computer(s) where it is . a relatively small item, palm of your hand, a wire connector and a bolt or two. at least this is my understanding of it. the detail;s may be slightly different. the same part was probably used on all auto trans 95 - 98. if you have a ''pull-a-part'' near you that would work. or anyone with a dead trans in his shed has one not being used. ask , or post a want ad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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