1997 EJ22 with a (possibly second) blown head gasket

[TypeOPositive]

I was originally under the impression that the PO had replaced the head gaskets and the timing belt... Upon further investigation, it doesn't appear that the timing cover was removed as the fasteners look like they have been in a junk yard car. Speaking on the junk yard suspicion, there are paint pen markings on a few different items. On top of that, all four spark plugs show evidence of having been burning coolant for a while. Who does a head gasket without replacing spark plugs?

 

A friend of mine was helping me install an O2 sensor as well as block heater, so we had to drain the coolant.  We may have done the fill procedure incorrectly and had an air pocket near the thermostat because we didn't directly pour coolant into the heater core. We started the engine up and I tried to squeeze the upper and lower radiator hoses to move coolant around. The car wasn't running even running for 10 minutes. The needle got to the normal operating range, and I shut the car down because it was still blowing cold heat.

 

I've noticed a sweet smell and a white cloud behind the car when it dropped below 70 degrees outside (directly after redraining/refilling the coolant), the cloud got thicker as you gave it more gas.  Temperature is up in the 70's and I can't easily tell there's a leak today via smoke. The coolant level is certainly going down in the overflow, and this is only day 2. The car is not overheating, or even trying to go outside of normal operating range. Initially i thought the smoke that came after might have been caused
by the ultra copper that we used to secure the exhaust gaskets.

 

I don't think I'm going to be that lucky...

 

I called the previous owner, curious about how (and why) the previous head gasket was done.I'm told they didn't resurface the head, and they also reused head bolts. The reason for the head gaskets being replaced was an external oil leak.

 

I notice that this isn't a common problem for this particular engine based on the postings here (http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/68699-which-engine-models-blow-head-gaskets/). I think that's cause for serious concern. In my head, I'm thinking I've either bought a basket case that was overheated and something is warped. Or perhaps if I'm lucky, the head gasket job was done wrong. Or maybe it's a junkyard engine?

 

I guess it doesn't really matter... I called around to a few machine shops to price resurfacing for the heads, have been eyeballing different gasket kits (subarupartsforyou) or maybe purchasing an aftermarket MLS cometic gasket. I've momentarily considered buying ARP studs, until I saw the price tag. Is it likely that head bolts are causing this problem? I'd doubt it.

 

I know this topic comes up a lot, but it seems very odd to me that this engine that's not prone to blow head gaskets (unlike a 2.5) would have this happen TWICE in less than 15K miles!

 

I would really hate a bad purchase on my part to turn me a way from boxers. Any and all advice is appreciated.

[lstevens76]

First, you can reuse the head bolts.  Subaru doesn't even recommend replacing them.

 

The EJ22 doesn't tend to have external oil leaks from the heads.  I can't remember how the oil jackets run on the EJ22 off the top of my head, but I don't believe the same oil leak on the EJ25 SOHC is even possible on the EJ22.

 

That being said what it sounds like (if this is an EJ22) that the owner had a DOHC 2.5L and they swapped in a junkyard engine that may or may not have had blown head gaskets when it was installed.

 

Check the top of the block to know for sure which block it is. 

 

As for gaskets, Amazon has the Subuaru OEM gasket set for around $250.  The last one I did I used OEM head gaskets and the evergreen full gasket set.  Worked great.

[AdventureSubaru]

For EJ22s from 1990-98 head resurfacing is optional. If you don't think the engine was overheated, there's no need to resurface. No need to replace head bolts either unless they are rusted or something.

 

You can usually look at the seams of the head gaskets on the top of the block and see if they are newish or not.

 

No need to shell out $250. for Subaru OEM gaskets for that year. The Fel-Pro gaskets are the same part for $25. each from Oreillys and other parts chains.

 

Unless you are absolutely DUMPING coolant out somewhere, cold heat would indicate low coolant or a blocked line/heater core. Not headgasket troubles.

 

This is not a common problem at all for 90-98 EJ22s. Unless overheated, the head gaskets are usually good for 300k and more.

 

Step one is to get the cooling lines figured out. Do what you have to do to get the heat working. You may have blockage or a failed heater core that can cause a slow leak. Once you've solved this and you have good heat and all, look for constant bubbles in the coolant overflow to indicate head gasket issues.

 

Unless they used cheapo graphite head gaskets from ebay or something, or lied about doing them, you've probably got something else making things go buggy.

[idosubaru]

Confirming a blown headgasket would be step 1 - I guess the smoke screen the clearest symptom?

Is there any other way for coolant intrusion - throttle body/idle controller?

 

If, as it seems, the headgaskets are bad, the condition of this engine is unknown - maybe awesome, maybe not.

 

repeat failures happen regularly when cheap (ebay) gaskets are used.  but if the headgaskets were replaced that is suggestive of a significant prior overheating event to cause them to fail.

 

It's not hard to find EJ22's around here for reasonable prices - might be worth looking into getting a used EJ22.

 

then again - that year EJ22 is about the easiest Subaru headgasket ever to replace - just look at the headbolts, they're staring right at you in the engine bay, all external.

remove intake, exhaust, and unbolt the heads.  cake.

 

Typically:

1. resurface the heads and use a Subaru or high quality head gasket. 

 

you don't replace head bolts in a Subaru and ARP studs would be silly on that engine.  properly done, an uncompromised Phase I Ej22 will never blow a headgasket.

 

resurface is good for proper RA finish.  there's a thread on here about how to resurface yourself - it's super easy, do it.

Edited September 15, 2015 by grossgary

[TypeOPositive]

I suppose I didn't clarify very well. The subaru I have is a Legacy Brighton Wagon, so I don't believe the PO would have gone through all that trouble with the 2.5 swap.

 

Once the coolant was poured directly into the heater core, and then bled from the system on the front end with the car jacked up, the heater blew hot air once again. I have heat in the car now.

 

I was given a rock auto receipt for the work done, and the gasket listed there. It is a beck/arnley # 032-2891.

 

If in fact this head gasket repair fails, I have a hard time being comfortable going the used engine route. It's possible that engine would be in similarly bad shape, and this is my only vehicle for winter transportation... Not a whole lot of good if the block has been compromised though.

[idosubaru]

If in fact this head gasket repair fails, I have a hard time being comfortable going the used engine route. It's possible that engine would be in similarly bad shape, and this is my only vehicle for winter transportation... Not a whole lot of good if the block has been compromised though.

 

if the existing engine has been significantly overheated or is questionable, then used EJ22's become a great option.  buy one from a wreck and choose wisely and you can almost guarantee you get a good running properly maintained engine.  some yards will even run them, compression test them, warranty them.  i understand the resistance though.

[johnceggleston]

head gasket failure could be due to the head bolt torque procedure.

just because they bought good parts, does not mean they did it right.

 

now that you have the cooling system working,

how does it run?

still smoking?

does it have power?

driving all right?

[TypeOPositive]

Seems to run like before, has plenty of power and doesn't stumble or hesitate in any condition. The smoking is hard to detect, I was ready to call it a fluke until we pulled the plugs we replaced yesterday and they were all white. The thermostat isn't stock either, I believe it's a gates.

[TypeOPositive]

The engine was never overheated in my possession, but I can't speak on it's first 100k miles of life.

 

There is something that I'm not entirely sure makes sense, but it would be awfully nice. I did see bubbles in my exhaust one time when I started the engine cold tonight, and gave it some throttle while looking into the overflow tank.  I tried to pull the hose out of the water to see if it was just extra coolant, but I could not get it to bubble again after that. I'm thinking I need to burp this system. Had my phone recording the exhaust. There was zero white smoke.

 

Since I can't seem to recreate the smoke that I saw, wouldn't it be nice if it was actually caused by the copper gasket compound? We didn't let it cure the 24 hours it called for, after all. The plugs being white as if they were burning coolant being caused by the wrong heat range / incorrect gap?

 

Or I could have no idea what I'm talking about. Which is more likely.

 

Any other suggestions?

Edited September 16, 2015 by TypeOPositive

[Fairtax4me]

I've ordered the beck Arnley gasket set from rockauto. The head gaskets are junk. The rest are fine (o-rings, valve cover gaskets, etc.) but the head gaskets themselves are just trash.

 

Probably the head gaskets didn't seal properly.

Get some Felpro head gaskets. Same as OE Subaru. Half the cost. Be sure to have the heads re-surfaced.

[TypeOPositive]

I noticed the 2.5 updated gasket is MLS, is it unnecessary to go that far for this EJ22?

[lstevens76]

I noticed the 2.5 updated gasket is MLS, is it unnecessary to go that far for this EJ22?

 

There is no updated gasket for the EJ22 because they didn't have the same failure design flaw as the EJ25.

 

And a RockAuto receipt instead of a shop receipt means the person either did it themselves or had a backyard mechanic do the work.  

[johnceggleston]

for the sake of discussion,

lets say the the head gaskets are bad.

what are your options.

1/ fix it now. ouch $$$

2/ sell it as is. good luck.

3/ drive it until it quits and then decide. what if it never quits?

 

these engines are incredibly though, resilient, and durable.

all you have experienced could be temporary issues as a result of major engine work.

once you have resolved the overheating issue,

the others may not be a big deal.

 

the smoke could be a one time burn off due to the rebuild.

the plugs could be due to the burn off or they could have saved 10$ and re-used old plugs.

 

it is not unusual for a newly swapped or newly repaired ej22 ot produce ''scary'' symptoms for the short term.

but it is also not unusual for these symptoms / issues to go away over time.

 

so my philosophy is to drive it.

that's what you bought it for.

worst case,

the engine dies, it is not repairable and

you swap in a good used $500 engine. (labor ~$700 ?? or zero if you do it.)

sadly this will add to the cost of the car,

but it not an impossible expense.

and probably still cheaper than selling and starting overbuying a different vehicle.

 

replace the t-stat,

fill the cooling system properly,

and drive it.

Edited September 16, 2015 by johnceggleston

[TypeOPositive]

I think the burn off had more to do with the copper gasket stuff added to the exhaust than it did the head gasket job done before I bought the car. The smoke isn't something I have been able to recreate. Aside from the normal amount of condensation that leaves the pipe when you start the car up.

 

The plugs we pulled were filthy, and were crusted white. I really should take some pictures of them, it's sad.

 

I drove the car about 80 miles today. No puffs on smoke on a cold start up, no change in the coolant level when cold. 4 stops so I checked it every time. Didn't check for bubbling. 

 

I do think your philosophy makes sense. The only thing I don't like about that idea is that I need this car to get me to and from school until late December. If I start noticeably burning coolant when there's snow on the ground... I'll be SOL. Motorcycle doesn't go so good on ice

 

Regardless, an OEM thermostat needs to be ordered, yesterday!

Edited September 16, 2015 by TypeOPositive

[lstevens76]

With most Subaru's they do not burn coolant so you it is unlikely you will see white smoke for a BHG.  My '96 OBS with a BHG never blew white smoke, but it could pop the cap off the radiator no problem from pressure build up.

 

Symptoms to watch for:

 

Random overheating

 

Bubbles in Coolant Reservoir

 

A BHG in a subaru can (as I said above) pop the cap off the radiator, it can also cause the radiator to crack.  The compression gasses getting into the coolant can sometimes increase pressure faster than the cap can release it.

 

That being said, it is an EJ22 which are not as common for a BHG.  

 

Now, I've ridden a motorcycle on ice and they aren't as bad as most people think.  But when there is ice on the roads it's pretty damn cold to be on a motorcycle. lol  

 

You should have another month, maybe two, before worrying about snow and ice.  I would drive it and push it a little to see if any symptoms return.  The bubbles could have been air in the system from the system not being bled properly...........

[TypeOPositive]

I believe the bubbles were caused by air in the system. The car has never tried to overheat, randomly or otherwise. I've even tried blasting the AC in 4th gear on the highway, so I'm fairly comfortable just driving the thing for now.Not real sure what would indicate more pressure than usual... What's the correct radiator cap to put on? I believe the one I have says "0.9" on the top. I'll replace the thermostat this coming weekend because I forgot to order it last week.

 

Not as bad as most people think?! My dad was one of those people to ride his two wheeler in all weather conditions. He laughs when I complain about rain and calls me a fair weather motorcyclist.. .Go figure... I don't know that I'm QUITE that brave.

 

I think johnceggleston and lstevens76 are correct, and driving it is the best course of action. Should it fail at the most inconvenient time, I could use public transportation and a bicycle. And then source a Ej22T turbo monster to swap in!

 

Just kidding about the turbo monster.

[lstevens76]

Going down the highway at 65 is the one place my OBS did not overheat.  It's common to not overheat during those times because of the airflow your getting around the engine, etc...

 

The more common overheat points are at an idle or stop and go traffic type things.  If you turn the AC on in stop and go traffic a vehicle is more prone to overheat if there is a problem that moving at a constant speed.

 

If the Radiator Cap is not OEM I would order one.  They are not very expensive and it's peace of mind.

[TypeOPositive]

Alright, I'll see if I can't get that needle to move in traffic tomorrow. I'll pick up the thermostat and cap from the dealer if it's not too much different than the online price.

 

Thanks for all the hand holding!

[TypeOPositive]

I've used three tanks of fuel (around 900 miles) and none of the symptoms have returned. I'd say it's time to drive it!

 

[johnceggleston]

come on,

you didn't really use 3 tanks of fuel letting it idle in your drive way did you?

 

happy motoring.

[TypeOPositive]

Hah! That would give the neighbors cause for concern. I appreciate everyones advice, and I'm really excited that I didn't have to do anything to the heads. I instead spent some of that money that wasn't spent on the head on various parts to make driving this winter a little less chaotic.

 

Thanks again everyone.