kuw4subie Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) 1994 Legacy Ls non-turbo: Currently have leaky head gaskets, confirmed by exhaust gasses in coolant. Beginning phases of HG failure and no signs of coolant in the oil after 2 very recent changes and constant dip-stick/filler cap checks. But snot in the coolant, esp expansion tank. Any recommendations for best choice of HG brand and type would be greatly appreciated! For instance, I understand Fel-pro is as good as Subaru OEM. Confirmations of this? And what about MLS versus the normal OEM composite type? I see MLS being standard for turbo engines and in the 2.5 but what about the 2.2? Lastly, the nice guy I am paying to lead this not-so-much DIY job has suggested that Felpro makes a specific head gasket that's best for such repair jobs that include the task of the heads being resurfaced. But I'm not seeing this called out anywhere in my research. Thanks for any recommendations you all can offer. I want to get this done rightn using best possible materials (to include new head bolts of course), as the labor alone is obviously expensive. Edited October 28, 2015 by kuw4subie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Felpro or OEM only. Felpro gaskets are identical to OEM at least on ej22s that is. I can't say for sure the ej22e is the same, but I am fairly sure it should be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) New head bolts is unnecessary as well and you should always resurface your heads. Edited October 28, 2015 by mikaleda 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Fel-pro gaskets have the Fuji Heavy Industries check logo on them. Same gasket as OEM. Composite gaskets are the preferred gasket for this engine. They conform well to minor imperfections in the head and block. Don't know anything about any special repair gasket. I've always used the plain OE replacement and never had any problem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 always resurface the heads, it can easily be done in house, look up DIY head resurfacing here for GD's write up. the MLS/turbo head gasket discussion is for later Phase II (2005+) engines. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuw4subie Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Thanks for the insights, all. I've decided I'm doing this on my own. I've had good success with doing the same on an '88 GL-10 Turbo about 15 yrs ago, albeit with new heads, so I'm figuring why not do this with existing. I've checked out GD's post on DIY head resurfacing and will be doing this as well. Remaining question is, can this be performed with engine in? I changed valve cvr gaskets, no prob, but realize head bolts are longer (will they clear?). And I want to leave valve cvrs on for obvious reasons. But what are my odds of getting proper torque wrenching that's needed? Again, I understand it will take longer in some respects to do this with engine in, but I want to change my intake manifold and TB gaskets, so I figure why not.. Thanks, gents. -Kellee Edited October 31, 2015 by kuw4subie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Yep it can be done, you have to take the motor mounts loose and jack each side of the motor up a couple inches get the head bolts clear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuw4subie Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 Thanks Mikaleda et al.. Does this mean I need to disconnect my AT to raise the engine with loosened motor mount bolts? Will the engine move vertically upwards w/the AT connected, an inch or 2 or 3, versus needing to swivel the engine away, in an upwards arc fashion, like I recall doing with my GL-10? Any other threads on this I should refer to? I figure if I have to disconnect the tranny, then I should just pull the engine altogether. Uhg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) no need to disconnect the AT - you can jack the engine up a good bit without disconnecting anything on the trans. the transmission isn't really connected to anything - for example if you unbolt it from the engine and the trans freefalls onto the crossmember. remove the pitch stopper (1 bolt) and two 14mm engine mount nuts - so with 3 fasteners you can easily do the headgaskets in the vehicle. it's not hard at all actually if you get the motor jacked up - definitely beats pulling an engine if you dont' mind leaning over the fenders a long time (bad back, age, size, conditions, etc) power tools help speed up that leaning over. that said - you probably could just disconnect the AT from the rear trans mount if you want too in order to put less stress ont he transmission bushings but i've never worried about it. support trans and unbolt the rear so it'll rotate more. still beats pulling the engine to trans botls, separating, torque converter/clutch dealings, etc. you can also tilt the engine, not just lift it up. if you're doing the drivers side - jack it up on the drivers side so it's tilted as well as higher. if you do pull it - replace the rear separator plate with a metal one if it's plastic. Edited November 1, 2015 by grossgary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuw4subie Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) Thanks,Gary! I didn't mention when I did this 15 years ago, my buddy did all the prep work for me with pulling the engine out and heads removed. So this is a whole new adventure. One I've procrastinated on starting. Got to the point of analysis paralysis finally and diving in today. Figured out where the 2 14mm bolts on the motor mounts to remove and figured out the pitch stop. Got the fuel pressure relieved & crank bolt loosened. Air intake/vaccum hoses removed. Accessories & intake manifold is next. Figure the intake can come of with fuel rails attached. Pwr str pump off to one side, AC off its mount but still connected & shifted to where the battery lives... Lingering question on "support trans and unbolt the rear so it'll rotate more." Can you please elaborate with spoon-feeding details? This is admittedly daunting, more so than changing my water pump & timing belt components. Water pump failed on the highway, which is what got me to this place of needing the change the HGs. After all is said & done, I'll have an awesome smooth running senior subie. It actually runs so smoothly now, at 250Kn that I can balance a glass of water on the engine at idle and go up a steep hill at well less than half-throttle. 150lbs in all cylinders and I'm a bit paranoid of messing anything up. Being a military veteran, I have the 6 P's echoing in my head: "Prior planning prevents pi$$ poor performance!" Yup... Thanks again all. Again, more details on support of the tranny without fully diconnecting is greatly appreciated. Edited November 7, 2015 by kuw4subie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Don't need to do anything with the rear trans mount. Leave it bolted up. When you lift the engine use a jack under the front diff of the trans to hold it up. If it's AT do not put a jack under the trans pan. Cut a couple sections of 2x6 or 2x8 about 4" length and nail them to a section wide enough that they fit on either side of the trans pan. Then you can put the jack under that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuw4subie Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) Thanks Fairtax... I've got a 4x3" 11" long block on a floor jack. Jacking right beside the dvr side of the oil pan at the block. Cleared the motor mount. And I can jack it up to where the exhaust manifold clears and engine rises. But about 2" shy of clearing that bottom rear head bolt still and oil begins leaking from the rear of the pan. This is in a driveway w/no engine hoist. I let the jack back down and leaking ceases but... OMG. I'm afraid of breaking something in jacking it up another 2" needed. How does one "tilt" the engine w/out raising further & w/out a hoist over the top? At all possible? Will I break anything on my 2.2 or AT? ATF pan is fine still. Comfort level is null.. Edited November 11, 2015 by kuw4subie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Are you doing the gaskets with the engine in the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuw4subie Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Thanks again for the invaluable feedback! I finally got past the engine jacking procedure to where head bolts could clear and lowered it back down with everything lined up & motor mounts seated correctly to get my comfort level established. Next question is cam sprockets. From my research, it seems such a chore to get these pulleys removed and I've read where it is not actually necessary, for the 2.2 SOHC engine, though I see the rear TB cover would still be between the pulley and the head. Can one carefully and successfully still perform the DIY resurfacing with the cam sprockets attached? I am 98% sure the heads won't be damaged and the DIY resurfacing with a follow up check will confirm less than .002" of warpage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuw4subie Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 And yes, doing this with engine in car. Uhg. But I don't have the resourses for doing it any other way, even though I see it is not the easiest approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) Got to remove the cam sprockets to pull the plastic timing belt rear cover so you can resurface the heads. use the old timing belt to hold the sproket while you breaking the bolt loose. An impact makes it much easier but can be done by hand they are usually on there hard though. Edited November 14, 2015 by mikaleda 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuw4subie Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Thanks for the feedback, mikaleda!Unbelievable how labor intensive this has been. I finally got the cam sprokets off, the head from the driver's side and the head bolts on the passenger side. But now another snafu... Turns out the top front head bolt, closest to the pwr steering pump, is very rusty. I had a PS leak for too long and I wonder if this eventually compromised the HG on that side too. But even with getting the bolts gracefully removed, the head seems seized to the block. I've tried the rubber mallet approach & lots of muscle help to no avail. Any tricks anyone can offer in this case, that I can be assured won't damage the head, such as prying might do? Or is there a safe spot to do a bit of prying? Edited December 4, 2015 by kuw4subie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Sometimes they can be stubborn to get off. You can pry carefully along the edge toward the head side since it will need to be resurfaced anyway small scratches won't hurt just try not to force anything it will pop off eventually. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 The alignment dowels are probably rusty. Two dowels only in the top two outer bolt holes. If you can pry up on the head, or pull up from the bottom it will wiggle loose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuw4subie Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Thank you, again! Will get back to it in the morning, feeling a bit more courageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Power steering leak won't hurt the head gasket. Certainly not the internal section of the gasket that fails. If the bolt was rusty on the threads, that's due to water/moisture getting in under the head of the bolt and condensing on the bolt. Once its in there it's very difficult for it to get out, so it keeps on rusting the bolt a little at a time. That also causes the alinment dowels to rust. They're just plain steel sleeves, so rust makes them jam up bad. You may end up having to replace them. Dealer is the only place I know of to get them, but they're only a few $ each IIRC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuw4subie Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) Thanks! It was indeed the rusty retainer dowels holding things up. They came out with the head and I have new ones, along with freshly cleaned & resurfaced heads now too! Now onto the block cleaning. Not enough hours in the day to do this stuff and work full-time as a IT nerd. :-P So... Lots of carbon build-up on the top of the pistons. Cylinders look good and the block HG mating surface cleaning seems straight forward. But about getting the pistons clean..? I have break cleaner, lacquer thinner, some fine wet/dry sandpaper, etc. But I don't want anything getting past the pistons and messing with things more so. Any ideas or posts anyone could refer me too? The engine is in vehicle still, so more awkwardness ahead. But so far, so good, even while soooo slow! Edited December 11, 2015 by kuw4subie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Don't worry about the pistons. Run some Seafoam in it later on, they'll clean up on their own. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuw4subie Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 Realized my motor mount is ripped in half on passenger side. And used red scotchbrite pad, by hand, to clean block surface. Two $crew ups. Didn't do my homework about scotch brite & aluminum oxide issue but since I did it by hand, hopefully I dodged a bullet with no debris in the cylinders! And add $140 for a new set of motor mounts. Uhg. This last stretch is kicking my butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuw4subie Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 I feel I may be totally messed up on this. The Haynes manual has the torque specs spelled out but is it taking into consideration TTY bolts or the original, which are not TTY?? Now I'm ready to toss the replacement (TTY) bolts I bought and put in the original, except for the 2 that are rusty. How do the newer TTY head bolts get torqued properly, if they're only designed to be torqued/stretched once?? I've loosened everything up on the 1st & only side I'm working on until I understand this torquing procedure and how it relates to TTY bolts. Also, to further complicate matters, the Haynes manual on the last steps jumps over to inch lbs, vs ft lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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