1993 legacy turbo wagon turbo leak?

[topsecret]

I've just bought a 93 legacy touring wagon.  

It seems to be leaking oil around the turbo.  The car doesn't smoke on start up but there is oil around all of the intake tubing into the intake manifold.

On the turbo I've looked at both of the oil send and return lines from the head and they look intact.

Is this common for the oil to leak into the intake instead of blowing into the exhaust?

I see some oil around the lines going to the pcv valve as well.  Could be from the rest of the intake tubing...

I guess my question is: with this kind of leak what else should i be looking for?

So far i'm just planning on removing the turbo, hopefully it will be able to be rebuilt, and reinstalling.

Any suggestions would help tremendously...

i'm not new to ej22's but this is my first ej22t

thanks in advance

sorry for the photo quality i only had my phone handy

[Fairtax4me]

It's common for turbo engines to get oil in the intake tubing through the breather/PCV system. Turbo engines create more blow-by pressure in the crankcase, which pushes oil vapor out through the breather hoses and into the intake tubing.

Its a good idea to change the PCV valve. And clean out the tubing as well as you can with brake cleaner.

 

Some people install "catch cans" on the breather hoses that filter the oil vapor out before it gets to the intake. They tend to work fairly well, but then you have to remember to empty the container on a regular basis. Generally done when changing the engine oil.

[topsecret]

I'm finally working on this again  .  Found the last of the gaskets and they're coming in tuesday.

i pulled the turbo off the exhaust, pretty straight forward.  But.... When i got below it i only had more questions.

The oil leak looks significant and i can't really see what exactly was leaking because of the amount of oil everywhere.  It looks like much too much oil to be only the blow by vapors.  It thoroughly covered the turbo but also left a puddle on the top of the block.  

Where would the pressure points on this system be? 

I also found a broken piece on the hose between the turbo compressor outlet and the throttle body.  On the turbo outlet connection its cracked, have any of you seen a way to repair this?  the price for the part itself is pretty high.

I feel like this hose could be a part of what spread the oil around for me.  It must've known i love dirty oily hands 

Here are a few pics to show my findings

Lots and Lots of oil everywhere

Here's the Intake piece i'm talking about

And here is the damage to it

Pretty cool stuff though.  This car will be fun when i get all of this worked out.

[wtdash]

HI,

 

Tangent: I suggest spending some time over on the Legacy Central site. Lots and lots (and lots) of info on the '90-'94 Legacy, including the '91-'94 turbo SS and TW models.

 

I've got some good news and some bad news. If the piece that is cracked is the 90° elbow the FEEDS the turbo - between the airbox>>MAF>>silencer box, you can't buy that part anymore. Subaru stopped making it and the dealerships finally sold them all in the last few years. READ it HERE. I can't see pics @ work, so hopefully I'm wrong. People have come up w/workarounds but it's tough due to all the 'things' that multi-ported hose does.

 

The good news is that the oil you're seeing is probably normal on a 20+ year old Legacy turbo.

 

A couple other thoughts:

 - The turbos are usually pretty stout, if the engine is left stock. They're only pushing <9psi from the factory and seem to be reliable. And buying them used it's not as big a gamble as buying someone's over-boosted TD04 ('02 - '08 WRX, FXT, BAJA turbo).* Rebuilding is probably a waste of $$.

 - Most of the hoses/pipes/wiring will be brittle on that engine - lots of heat = hard plastic. Expect to get creative as things break and need repaired due to Subaru discontinuing many of the parts. Good/better news is some of the newer WRX stuff will work.* And don't forget to look in the Parts Shed on Legacy Central - post a WTB thread.

- Expect the nipples/connections on the turbo's coolant tank - by the brake booster - will break when you look @ them funny...touch w/care. Assuming yours is still the stock plastic/composite tank and not the newer metal or composite tanks from a WRX, et al.

- The oil pooling could be from the oil sender/sensor below the power steering pump and/or could be P/S fluid (ATF). Both of those have a leaky history.

 

* The TD04 on the models listed above is a good replacement for the VF11 - IF you can find one that's not worn out....Look on NASIOC.com for those. IT REQUIRES FABRICATION to make it work, but it'll work w/the stock ECU, injectors, boost setting, etc. and provides a slight power boost w/out having to worry about blowing up the engine. Other WRX and newer turbo'd Subarus also have potential upgrade parts that can be used as replacments, plus you can still order them new from Subaru.

 

GL,

TD

Edited June 9, 2016 by wtdash

[WoodsWagon]

Since the piece that has cracked goes between the turbo and the throttle body, it might be time to look into a intercooler upgrade. You'll end up replacing that part with new hoses to go to the intercooler. I think the stock intercooler off a Forester XT fits fairly well, but check legacycentral for info.

 

With oil on top of the block there I would check the oil pressure switch for leakage. It's down behind the power steering pump and they can start weeping oil through the switch. What you're seeing all over the turbo may be oil mist blown back by air from a leak further forward on the engine.

[wtdash]

+1 ON the TMIC from an '06-'07 WRX or XT fit the easiest/best.

 

Now that I see the pics, that pipe is probably easier to find here or on the LC website. I'll look thru my stash, too.

 

Td

[topsecret]

Thanks guys for all of the observation and suggestions.  I no longer think the turbo is the culprit after tearing it out and familiarizing myself with the system.  I had already bought a replacement... whoops. lol, anyone need an old stock turbo?

an intercooler upgrade is in the plans but i want to get it up and running and solid before i go down upgrade road 

so i started putting it back together today with the gasket i've been waiting on and boom! first snag in the works!

I can't find the correct part for the turbo inlet gasket.  The subaru dealership here looked it up and ordered it specifically for me but it doesn't fit. part number 14415aa030.  This part isn't specified in the parts explosions on legacy central and this is the only number that comes up for the dealership.  It looks like the correct design but larger.

here are some before and after shots after i had so much fun cleaning it

someone please help with a part number????

the dealership is saying i may be SOOL and this gasket is made of more than paper

[topsecret]

Oh yeah and woodswagon and wt, thanks, you were right on.  Looks like its coming from behind the power steering pump and blowing back, i can't tell at this point whether its the oil switch you're speaking of or the PS lines.  I found so many broken vacuum hoses that i'm sure the pcv system wasn't properly doing its job as well.  All together it made it look like a blown oil line into the turbo to a noob like me.  Oh well, live and learn, i wouldn't have found many of these problems without digging anyway.

Edited June 16, 2016 by topsecret

[topsecret]

I just spoke with Subaru's customer support line and they told me that the part according to their parts team was correct and i needed to take it to a dealership to have it installed correctly??

I tried letting the guy know there isn't a possible way to install this part correctly, he insisted i must be doing it wrong.

Long story short,

never call subaru customer support, unless you wanna have a bad day.

[wtdash]

Post on LC site. (8 years ago!)...doesn't 'help' much other than to  confirm your experience.

 

I'd go w/the hi-temp gasket maker, or you can take a template to a Auto parts or exhaust shop and see if they have an exhaust gasket that matches?

 

Also, found this possible option but it's for NON-USA turbos: 14415aa010

 

Side-note: There were VF8, 10,  12, etc used around the world on the old EJ20G engines, which had the 90° inlet. The VF11 was only used on the EJ22T in the US and Canada. The '91-'94 Legacy turbos  in the US/Canada were the only ones that didn't have an intercooler, so it had the unique 'clocked' turbo OUTlet direct to the throttle body. The # used for the VF series did NOT note size; it was related to age. The VF8 was OLDER but BIGGER/Flowed more than the VF11. Just like the VF39>43>48>? used on the STi since 2004+.

Edited June 16, 2016 by wtdash

[topsecret]

Thanks Wt.

I'm going to try it today.

[topsecret]

well my pics don't seem to be working but i got a bit further on this.

I used the silicone tape on the intake and i used copper gasket maker. (i will try to get the pics back working)

It's all back together and running great.  

Still no smoke on start up or after warm but still smoke coming from the area of the turbo (only while driving) and very soft brakes now.

Got to thinking and realized the engine wasn't the source of the brake issue at least, so i switched my focus...  I did all 4 brakes looking for issues, none found, so i started looking through the lines.

FINALLY!!!  On the passenger side strut tower there is a piece labeled dpv-108...  right above the turbo and spraying brake fluid  

Looks like its the brake proportioning valve.  I'll be honest this is my first gen1 with abs.  

Have any of you seen the proportioning valve blow out the top?  Is this just a symptom of another issue?  And lastly is there a special way to bench bleed this valve before i install it and introduce air into the abs system?

Thanks for all the help guys

[Fairtax4me]

Proportion valve should be fairly high up, so air in the lines can usually rise toward the top. When you remove the lines from the valve be sure to quickly cap them so the fluid doesn't all run out of the reservoir. You'll make 100x more work for yourself if the reservoir runs empty. 

 

Put the new valve in and gravity bleed it with the lines loosened slightly. Then bleed the brakes at each wheel as you normally would. 

[impostor]

The inlet gasket for an ea82t is actually the one you need. I just bought two from Subaru and compared both turbos side by side disassembled on a bench to confirm. The Subaru gaskets I received are paper and not much better than what comes from the aftermarket. I was in the same boat and now have a 030 gasket sitting in my tool box.