pamike Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 with the wheels off the ground only the front will spin until i give it some gas then the rear will spin then stop again while the front continues to spin. it will do this every 5-10 seconds. if it's in drive and idleing the front will spin and the rear will do nothing. maybe the solonoid sticking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 with the wheels off the ground only the front will spin until i give it some gas then the rear will spin then stop again while the front continues to spin. it will do this every 5-10 seconds. if it's in drive and idleing the front will spin and the rear will do nothing. maybe the solonoid sticking? thats right Its working fine. The duty c solenoid varies the torque split from 10-50%. It does this by pulsing on and off, with 50/50 being fully off. This is what your seeing. Your not going to get full application 50/50 since that is decided by the driveshaft speed differential between front and rear driveshafts. Also if the speed differnce is too great, the computer (which is not dumb) will dissconnect the AWD to protect itself. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 then why is it that my 90 (not this one) doesn't do this. when i lift it up and do the same thing both front and rear spin the same, the rear does not stop and start. mine has new clutches and solonoid installed by the subie dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosDiosDeVerde86 Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 yes. i agree with cheese nip. i did that as well on a lift at the garage, did the same thing. you gotta give it gas to make the awd kick in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 then why is it that my 90 (not this one) doesn't do this. when i lift it up and do the same thing both front and rear spin the same, the rear does not stop and start. mine has new clutches and solonoid installed by the subie dealer. because yours is newer. Things dont operate the same new as when they are old, but they can wear and still be in tolerance. You can put in a new wiper motor, and have a car with an old wiper motor, it may run slower, but it still is ok. The clutches are designed to slip. The newer ones have less slip then other when freewheeling. ALso when was the last time you changed fluid in the tranny/ nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 but after it kicks in shouldn't it keep spining so it keeps up with the front. i always thought that if the computer sees the front spinning faster than the rear it will kick in the rear. this is how my 90 and my girlfriends moms 96 legacy work. if it cycled on and off all the time like this the car if in snow would go and not go then go and not go etc. when in a dirt parking lot my 90 and the 96 will take right off without spinning but this one will spin. the 96 has 170,000 miles with original clutches, and the 90 has 140,000 with original parts. wouldn't there be more wear on the 96 anyway. the fluid is good. they bought it from a car lot and i an pretty sure it was changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 but after it kicks in shouldn't it keep spining so it keeps up with the front. i always thought that if the computer sees the front spinning faster than the rear it will kick in the rear. this is how my 90 and my girlfriends moms 96 legacy work. if it cycled on and off all the time like this the car if in snow would go and not go then go and not go etc. when in a dirt parking lot my 90 and the 96 will take right off without spinning but this one will spin. the 96 has 170,000 miles with original clutches, and the 90 has 140,000 with original parts. wouldn't there be more wear on the 96 anyway. the fluid is good. they bought it from a car lot and i an pretty sure it was changed. If the computer see it has caught up it will disnegage. you have alot more slip in one car then the other, but also your doinf something that is not normal, you have the tires in the air, there is no reisitance against the tires, and the speed that your seeing at the wheel is actually double at the driveshafts when the car is like this. Did you rev the other car with wheels in the air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 If the computer see it has caught up it will disnegage. you have alot more slip in one car then the other, but also your doinf something that is not normal, you have the tires in the air, there is no reisitance against the tires, and the speed that your seeing at the wheel is actually double at the driveshafts when the car is like this. Did you rev the other car with wheels in the air Also your talking a 90 vs a 96. There can be HUGE differences in the programs between the two cars, you dont know. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 If the computer see it has caught up it will disnegage. you have alot more slip in one car then the other, but if this is normal and it's what it's supposed to do(turn off when its caught up) why wouldn't my 90 with the new parts cycle on and off like this. it keeps constant power to the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 You are talking two cars that are not only 6 years apart, but two differnt genereations. Emission requirements changed during those years. I can tell you in theory if you can do the same thing by pulsing power vs having it constantly on, you pulse the power. It increases MPG (even parasitic improvements are big when you take into account 300,000 or more vehicals), it will effect emissions, and who knows what other reasons why subaru did it. you have to remeber these are TWO differnt generations of cars. You really cant compare cars like that. now if they were both the identical car and the same thing happened, then i would say you MIGHT have a problem. Also as i said before you are not using the system as designed so even then it may be within design tolerances. Functionally you have no issues, realistically the cars are differnt. Computer algorythems change from year to year, and subaru recalibrated the 4wd between gen1 and gen2. Its working fine. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 no i'm talking about 2 1990 subaru legacys same cars what i'm saying is even though one has new parts shouldn't it cycle on and off like the other one. you said after the rear catches up it will turn off. and it keeps cycleing on and off since mine has all new parts wouldn't it cycle on and off to. it doesn't, it just keeps spinning the same as the front. since mine with all new parts doesn't cycle on and off i thought this was normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 but if this is normal and it's what it's supposed to do(turn off when its caught up) why wouldn't my 90 with the new parts cycle on and off like this. it keeps constant power to the rear. they are the same car and same year. i just said my 90 with new parts seems to work the same as the 96, while the other 90's rear tires cycle on and off. thats why i thought something was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 no i'm talking about 2 1990 subaru legacys same carswhat i'm saying is even though one has new parts shouldn't it cycle on and off like the other one. you said after the rear catches up it will turn off. and it keeps cycleing on and off since mine has all new parts wouldn't it cycle on and off to. it doesn't, it just keeps spinning the same as the front. ok so i misread, and your not reading mine. re read what i typed as a possible explination. If you want any deeper call subaru since i dont have the algorythems. It is quite possible that : a- both are working fine within specs. One has a newer clutch pack, therefore it is tighter. The way the awd works is the clutches are always engaged. They are designed to slip on turns. the solenoid cycles and by cycling it varies the amount of torque to the rear wheels. b- There could have been a change in the algorythems in that year between the two production dates. c- it is a completly unfair test. I would be MORE worried if it didnt work at all. Feel free to take it to dealer and have them look at it, or drop subaru of america an email and ask them. They are pretty good at answering technical questions. nipper PS what happens in the ones that spins all the time when you put the FWD fuse in ti? Do the rear wheels stop spinning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 when i started talking about the 96 i was just saying that with 170,000 miles it does not cycle on and off. the rear gets continuous power just like my 90 with new parts. so i was thinking that getting continuous power was normal but i understand what your saying about comparing different years. if i put the fuse in, it makes it fwd. what made me think something is wrong is that mine will not spin if i stomp on the gas but that one will. this is in a parking lot. and thats what i've always heard on this site is that if the front spins it's not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 when i started talking about the 96 i was just saying that with 170,000 miles it does not cycle on and off. the rear gets continuous power just like my 90 with new parts. so i was thinking that getting continuous power was normal but i understand what your saying about comparing different years. if i put the fuse in, it makes it fwd. what made me think something is wrong is that mine will not spin if i stomp on the gas but that one will. this is in a parking lot. and thats what i've always heard on this site is that if the front spins it's not working. ok now if you said that at the begining sheesh was the surface wet or dry nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 when in a dirt parking lot my 90 and the 96 will take right off without spinning but this one will spin. the 96 has 170,000 miles with original clutches, and the 90 has 140,000 with original parts. wouldn't there be more wear on the 96 anyway.. i did say that it spins. it is dry out in a stone parking lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 i did say that it spins.it is dry out in a stone parking lot. My 97 obw and my 98 leagcy would never spin out on dry ground, and was work to get it to spin on wet ground. Being able to spin out on dry ground there may be something else going on, unless your dumping a clutch (i know they are automatics). i'm begining to wonder it the problem is not the pulsing wheel but the one spinning all the time. MY freinds 05 legacy wont spin out on dry ground, and my 88 GL would not spin out on dry ground (and that was a 5speed and d/r). the only time you get 50/50 split without the puter thinking about it is reverse, d2 and full throttle. the rest of the time the puter is adjusting the split to only enough torque to get the car moving. I can spin out my soobies with the FWD fuse in only. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 thats what i said. mine will NOT spin at all unless the fuse is in. all the wheels spin in the snow though, the same with the 96. thats why i thought there was a problem with the other 90 because it WILL spin. thats the one that the rear tires start and stop while the front continues to spin.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 ok this is not fair, and im not a mind reader. your first post talked of one car, then you spoke of another both the same year, without stating that. Now put in ONE post what each car is doing, the milage, what work has been done, and which one does what. Call one car A and the other car B. You cant keep bouncing around between threads and expect me to follow it. This will make life easier nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 2 90 legacys and 1 96 legacy the 96 with 170,000 miles is all original my 90 with new clutches and solonoid both do not spin in the parking lot and if off the ground both front and rear tires spin same speed. these cars work fine. the other 90 with 140,000 miles original parts will spin. and if lifted off the ground the front only will spin unless you step on the gas. then the rear will kick in and stop again while the front is spinning the whole time. and you said the solonoid is cycleing off and on and this is normal. then you said that the other car doesn't do this because the parts are new. thats why i started talking about the 96 because that has no new parts and it does not cycle the rear wheels on and off i thought you were saying that the wheels cycleing on and off was normal. thats why i said about the other 90 and that doesn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 no wonder im confused there are THREE of them, nopw you owe me a beer here i thought i was going nuts. New rule, no more three stooges type questions nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 2 90 legacys and 1 96 legacy the 96 with 170,000 miles is all original my 90 with new clutches and solonoid both do not spin in the parking lot and if off the ground both front and rear tires spin same speed. these cars work fine. the other 90 with 140,000 miles original parts will spin. and if lifted off the ground the front only will spin unless you step on the gas. then the rear will kick in and stop again while the front is spinning the whole time. and you said the solonoid is cycleing off and on and this is normal. then you said that the other car doesn't do this because the parts are new. thats why i started talking about the 96 because that has no new parts and it does not cycle the rear wheels on and off i thought you were saying that the wheels cycling on and off was normal. thats why i said about the other 90 and that doesn't do it. no fair, your making me nuts. Now you left out one answer, does the cycling car ( i asked for an a, b, and now c, your not making things easy) spin the front wheels in the parking lot. When was the last time it had a fluid change. Check the fluid condition. The clutch pack may be tired. The duty c solenoid when dead or fully off will give you AWD or torque bind. IF the solenoid is stuck, it will dump all the pressure. Now that we know who is on first..... The solenoid is working, trhats whay it is cycling. Now the bad news, the clutch pack is slipping far more then it should. think of it like an automatic transmission that is slipping. It will barely catch and make the car go before it works no more. Thats where you are... make it two beers :drunk: nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 with the wheels off the ground only the front will spin until i give it some gas then the rear will spin then stop again while the front continues to spin. it will do this every 5-10 seconds. if it's in drive and idleing the front will spin and the rear will do nothing. maybe the solonoid sticking? this is the first post. i brought the other cars into this because you were saying this was normal. i was just asking you if this was normal why would my 90 with new parts not do this. you said that it was different because one had new parts and one had old parts. the fluid is good, when it kicks in it jerks the car like the clutches are good if they were bad would they grab like they were good, if they were bad would it do this. it seems like the solonoid gives it power then takes it away. what would cause it to fail. all the tires are the same. the only thing i can think of is when i get a chance i'll cut the power to the solonoid and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 this is the first post. i brought the other cars into this because you were saying this was normal. i was just asking you if this was normal why would my 90 with new parts not do this. read it from my side you see it differntly, and im not going to argue anyway:headbang: . The solenoid is working, the clutch pack is tired. They do on occasion go the old fashioned way (wear out). nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 sorry for the confusion i really didn't know how to say it any different than that. how different are the clutches and solonoid in a 96 compared to a 90. i always thought they were the same.the 96 has 170,000 miles and still works good. and the 90 needs replacement, i never thought it would go out at that low milage. thanks for the help and i guess i owe you 2 beers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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