daeron Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 okay, i smacked a curb head on the other night at about 20 mph.. car straightened out while pulling across a wide divided highway earlier than i anticipated (from complete stop) and i couldnt react quick enough.. killed the tire, and something else has become apparent since then. I have nasty, irregular steering wheel shimmy and it has a tendency to "jump" slightly, once in a while.. but the problem seems intermittent, its either on or off.. but more on than off lately.. so in the middle of my shift tonight i jacked both sides of the car up and inspected the steering/suspension.. couldnt find any inordinate play in the wheels, but didnt have any leverage to check the ball joints properly.. the ball joint(s) and tie rod end(s) are my prime suspects. I have a copy of HTKYSA and have read up.. but my haynes seems more confusing than helpful. maybe now that ive read the HTKYSA, but whatever.. two questions. 1, i reached up and grabbed my tie rod ends, one at a time, and i could grasp them and rotate them along their axis what seemed to me to be an inordinate amount.. one side (the side i hit) was maybe, 1/8-1/6 of a turn, and the passengers side was more like 1/4-1/3 of a turn.... it seemed like the stud on the ball joint at the end may have been loose, could just be loose castle nuts on my tie rod ends... but i have had ball joint problems on another car and was able to diagnose and correct that easily enough, my primary question is, tie rod ends rotating that much, need to be replaced? or maybe just tightened? they only rotate relative to the wheel bearing housing, not relative to the steering rack end. and 2, does my 1987 GL-10 with non-pneumatic suspension hold ANY surprises for me, given that my only vehicle-specific breakdown of this job came from the HTKYSA? i mean, the book spelled it out well and i picked it up well.. IF the car doesnt have any surprises in store.. any experience with that? thanks folks. edit one final question.. funds are short right now. i know replacing one defective side, and leaving the other side alone if its "ok" is not a good idea.... but i mean, if it looks like i can get away with it for a little while, i can right? im not gonna hurt the new part by using it with an old part on the other side? it was just a thought after i looked at rockauto.com and my wallet at the same time..... what about junkyard tie rod ends??? stupid idea? i mean, i know if i have to remove the tie rod ends i need a re alignment... so obviously if i do one then the other thats an issue.. but im trying to get as much info on my first shot as possible here i guess.. thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 My first thought was damaged rim and maybe shock-loosened axle nut. Just reread post and you said head on... not likely to shock the tie-rod too much. I would be more concerned about the control arm (kind of) but more so about the leading link (runs from control arm backwards to near the tranny mount). That leading link is there to handle fore/aft loads. I did something similar in my 510 years ago, and ripped loose the mount for its trailing link (same concept, different mounting direction). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Yeah - might have bent a/the control arms and leading rods, or the rim. Did you have the rim inspected carefully? No surprises - other than the HTKYSA is wrong about needing a "shop" to get the axle out. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 great, i was just majorly concerned with the way i could rotate the tie rod ends... i focused where i did because A i had no idea what might be more likely to be injured than something else and B it felt a lot like the bad balljoint on my 280Z did... car is up ion the air with both wheels off now, i'll check the leading arm and the control arm bushings, it just feels more substantial than a bushing, and nothing _seems_ bent. it was only 10-20mph at impact.. the tire got killed but it was on its way out anyhow. thats about what i figgered on the HTKYSA. he said the same thing about mach=pherson strut cartridge replacement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Probably didn't break anything then - still check carefully. Subaru suspensions can take some severe punishment. I've seen several bent control arms - both from impacts with stuff on the street, and from landing on things off-road. Usually even with bent suspension parts, they might pull one way or another, but they don't usually have vibration problems - that's usually a bent rim or axle issue. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 allright, NOTHING else is loose or bent in the entire system as far as i could see, but those tie rod end boots are in poor shape (the ones over the tie rod end ball joint) and the entire tie rod freely rotates about 90 degrees in my hand... is this not bad?? this is the ONLY problem i find in the entire setup... ball joints check out, control arm and leading arm bushings check out, but when i rotate the wheel assembly through turning left to right, there is free play at the tie rod end.... thats not right is it? i mean, left to myself i would answer my question by saying, replace the tie rod ends, and im going to start doing so now.. but if im wrong about that, PLEASE someone tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 oh yah, the outer lip of the wheel was slightly bent, nothing else.. i did that inspection already. sorry i forgot to mention it. Also, the issue remained unresolved with another wheel on that shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 18, 2006 Author Share Posted August 18, 2006 well i got one tie rod end loose (after FINALLY finding my pickle-fork thingy) and when i pivot and rotate it through its socket, there are rough spots etc. My understanding is it should freely rotate and pivot and feel smooth as silk while its doing so.. plus the boots are torn a little, so these needs to be replaced anyhow.. what are the odds that hitting the curb pushed the tierod balljoints over their limit? the proverbial straw breaking the camels back? i know its more like a railroad tie than a straw, but like i said everything else seems fine... new ends are already on order at the local parts shop, and i know how to "semi-align" them by marking/measuring the distance, and i know i will need a front end alignment very soon now. I just hope this does fix my shimmy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 I doubt the tie rods are at fualt, and unless one took a direct hit on the curb, you probably are just seeing normal wear. They should be smooth and very tight - so tight it's hard to move them by hand. You'll see when you get the new ones. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 18, 2006 Author Share Posted August 18, 2006 heh.. the tie rod, while maybe not at fault, are definitely problematic. I figure, worst case scenario, im wrong, but the tie rod ends were aggravating my problem. maybe whatever ghost issue i cant track down killed the tie rod ends. I suppose something may be slightly out of whack with the control arm/leading arm setup, and im not seeing it.... but, im looking with that fact in mind, sooo.. who knows. Tie rods will be in tomorrow, and I shall go from there. the shake of the steering wheel is irregular, its a back and forth shimmy, but the pulses are nowhere NEAR equal in degree of motion, or sharpness of pull, you know what i mean? when the ball joint when on the datsun it was same pulse, side to side, evenly, at a given speed range.. this is erratic pulse, uneven, unpredictable, and at all speed ranges except <5mph. i have done all of my checks this evening with the wheels off... but i havent found a place for ANYTHING to budge. however, im not a big guy, and im not in good shape (daeron==weakling:lol: ) so, are the odds decent that if i put the wheel back on and get that leverage, i will be able to shake something that i couldnt shake with the wheel off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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