97OutbackCA Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 I searched the archives and can find no information as to adjusting a hydraulic clutch. One thread indicated that the newer hydraulic clutchs are not adjustable. When we replaced the head gaskets at 115K (pulled the engine) we also replaced the clutch and T/O bearing - my buddy is a tranny specialist and commented that the T/O bearing had been riding on the clutch. We have put about 30K on the car since that change. We have just replaced the clutch slave cylinder and the flex line and bled the system, but can now hear a "squeal" from the T/O bearing - when I jiggle the clutch fork I can feel it riding on the clutch - at least thats what it feels like. How can this be adjusted/remedied? Many thanks, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 There is no adjustment on a hydraulic clutch, as they are (in a way) self adjusting. You may need a throw out bearing. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97OutbackCA Posted September 23, 2006 Author Share Posted September 23, 2006 There is no adjustment on a hydraulic clutch, as they are (in a way) self adjusting. You may need a throw out bearing. nipper I think you may be right - we found there is a pedal adjustment under the dash at the firewall and adjusted that - the pedal had to be pushed to the floor before it would disengage the clutch - now there is a little bit of pedal play before the clutch disengages. I thing installing the new slave cyliner and flex line has helped also. But, sadly, you may be right about the T/O bearing - it sounds as though it is squealing most of the time. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 I think you may be right - we found there is a pedal adjustment under the dash at the firewall and adjusted that - the pedal had to be pushed to the floor before it would disengage the clutch - now there is a little bit of pedal play before the clutch disengages. I thing installing the new slave cyliner and flex line has helped also. But, sadly, you may be right about the T/O bearing - it sounds as though it is squealing most of the time. Andy i really reeally hope you marked there that pivot joint was originally. You may have taken all the freeplay out of the clutch pedal, which can come back to haunt you. When you replace the clutch, you need to put that back where it was. ALso you may cause the clutch to slip by turning that adjustment. Its not meant to be adjusted. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97OutbackCA Posted September 24, 2006 Author Share Posted September 24, 2006 i really reeally hope you marked there that pivot joint was originally. You may have taken all the freeplay out of the clutch pedal, which can come back to haunt you. When you replace the clutch, you need to put that back where it was. ALso you may cause the clutch to slip by turning that adjustment. Its not meant to be adjusted. nipper Somehow I doubt that the clutch is supposed to engage "right off the floor" meaning that the pedal had to be pushed into the carpet to disengage. This is what I had to do before I adjusted it. Now there is a bit of free-play when you press the pedal - ie nothing happens until the pedal is pushed in an inch or so. Thanks for your comments. As I said in my initial question - is it normal for the T/O bearing to ride on the clutch pressure plat and spin all the time? I doubt that. Therefore, how does one remedy this situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Somehow I doubt that the clutch is supposed to engage "right off the floor" meaning that the pedal had to be pushed into the carpet to disengage. This is what I had to do before I adjusted it. Now there is a bit of free-play when you press the pedal - ie nothing happens until the pedal is pushed in an inch or so. Thanks for your comments. As I said in my initial question - is it normal for the T/O bearing to ride on the clutch pressure plat and spin all the time? I doubt that. Therefore, how does one remedy this situation? its not normal. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch.htm (operate the clutch ) Lets look at how a diphram clutch is built. It is a flat spring pressing against a disc with a specific amount of force. As the disc wears, the flat spring moves closer to the flywheel. One of the wonder of this design is as the clutch wears, it actually applies more force (the reason your tired hyd clutch failed) .As the diphram does this the fingers move closer to the thorw out bearing. What you have is a clutch while working is quite worn. The fix for it is a new clutch. Then you will see that you have to move the pedal adjustment back to where it was (and you WILL have to do that). The reason the clutch grabed so low is because you need a clutch. This is the same reason your pedal was so low, and why you never adjust the clutch pedal on a hyd clutch unless its an emergncy. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 I had the master cyl carve on mine too. That moved the take up point way down. Don't forget the pilot bearing while you are in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 I had the master cyl carve on mine too. That moved the take up point way down. Don't forget the pilot bearing while you are in there. does subaru call it a bearing or bushing? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97OutbackCA Posted September 24, 2006 Author Share Posted September 24, 2006 its not normal.http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch.htm (operate the clutch ) Lets look at how a diphram clutch is built. It is a flat spring pressing against a disc with a specific amount of force. As the disc wears, the flat spring moves closer to the flywheel. One of the wonder of this design is as the clutch wears, it actually applies more force (the reason your tired hyd clutch failed) .As the diphram does this the fingers move closer to the thorw out bearing. What you have is a clutch while working is quite worn. The fix for it is a new clutch. Then you will see that you have to move the pedal adjustment back to where it was (and you WILL have to do that). The reason the clutch grabed so low is because you need a clutch. This is the same reason your pedal was so low, and why you never adjust the clutch pedal on a hyd clutch unless its an emergncy. nipper So what you are saying is that my clutch is worn out after just over 30K miles? Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 So what you are saying is that my clutch is worn out after just over 30K miles? Wow. 30K thats fast, That is normally what you are seeing for a clutch failure. Here are a few questions: What brand of clutch HOw many miles on the car now DO you have the proper slave cylinder It may be poossible (this happens) that the throw out bearing is no longer firmly in the clutch fork. The clip breaks or falls out. SInce you have low clutch mileage and there was no operator issues, thats all i can think of. Why did you replace the slave cylinder. it may be possible that the slave sylinder was never fully releasing the clutch (long shot) nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 http://www.procarcare.com/includes/content/resourcecenter/encyclopedia/ch20/20TSclutch.HTML Let me ask a silly question, are you sure the master cylinder is good? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97OutbackCA Posted September 24, 2006 Author Share Posted September 24, 2006 http://www.procarcare.com/includes/content/resourcecenter/encyclopedia/ch20/20TSclutch.HTML Let me ask a silly question, are you sure the master cylinder is good? nipper I've had no leaks, no drop in the level of the master cylinder - the clutch was to the floor pretty much since we got the car - 115K miles. Nothing to suspect a bad MC. Brand of clutch - LUK, IIRC. Got new everything except flywheel - which was re-surfaced. Read a tech bulletin about a sticking slave cylinder which is what this did from time to time. Replaced it with genuine Suby parts per the tech bulletin. Never exprienced any clutch slip. I've had lots of vehicles with manual trannies - old stuff too - never experienced anything like this. Keep the ideas coming - this is getting interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 I've had no leaks, no drop in the level of the master cylinder - the clutch was to the floor pretty much since we got the car - 115K miles. Nothing to suspect a bad MC. Brand of clutch - LUK, IIRC. Got new everything except flywheel - which was re-surfaced. Read a tech bulletin about a sticking slave cylinder which is what this did from time to time. Replaced it with genuine Suby parts per the tech bulletin. Never exprienced any clutch slip. I've had lots of vehicles with manual trannies - old stuff too - never experienced anything like this. Keep the ideas coming - this is getting interesting. bad master cylinder internally leaking as they dont leak externally.. i usually replace both at the same time. i cant find anything bad about this kit yet, thats a good thing. Replac e the master. nipper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Sounds like a clutch master to me, but the squeak might be internal, a pilot bearing or throwout from being misadjuated. Subarus use an actual tiny bearing for the pilot. This cost me a few hundred bucks to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97OutbackCA Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 Sounds like a clutch master to me, but the squeak might be internal, a pilot bearing or throwout from being misadjuated. Subarus use an actual tiny bearing for the pilot. This cost me a few hundred bucks to find out. Yup, I think we are going to be pulling the tranny and replacing the T/O and/or pilot bearing, and maybe the whole clutch set-up if it really is well worn. At this stage we might as well replace the master cylinder - as nipper said, they can leak internally and "hide" the fact that there is a problem. The final element will be to adjust the clutch pedal to factory specs. Thanks for all the help and ideas. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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