Ticking HLA's (I know, I know...)

[PonchoCatalina]

I know there are at least a million postings about "Tick of Death," and I think I've read most of them, so please don't . I have developed a list of possible causes and fixes, but here's where I am: having just recently worked out a number of issues on my '91 Loyale, including new head gaskets, I still have the never-ending clack-clack-clack of an ineffective HLA (or two). The noise is definitely coming only from the driver's side of the engine. I have only driven the car about 75 miles locally since getting it back on the road, and those miles have all been accumulated on short trips (no more than ten miles). I have a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil in my crankcase with fresh 10w40. Only once, while idling in my driveway, did the noise suddenly cease, so I know that it *can* stop clacking. Of course it started doing it again the next time I started the car and it won't go away. Here's my question: how long should I wait for the HLA's to pump up after they were out of the engine for a few a weeks? Is it time to replace a few "spongy" HLA's and reseal the oil pump, or am I jumping the gun? Should I give it a few more weeks, a few more miles, maybe a good 100-mile round trip on the highway before I start tearing back into the engine? I know how to deal with ticking HLA's, but I'm just not sure if I need to do it yet! Thanks.

- Ian

[idosubaru]

the noise isn't going to go away with time due to "pumping up", so no need to give it more time for that.

 

you replaced the headgaskets? how long did you drive with bad headgaskets? where you adding coolant or water when they were bad? how bad were they? (i'm asking for a reason).

[PonchoCatalina]

the noise isn't going to go away with time due to "pumping up", so no need to give it more time for that.

 

you replaced the headgaskets? how long did you drive with bad headgaskets? where you adding coolant or water when they were bad? how bad were they? (i'm asking for a reason).

 

 

I did replace the headgaskets because there was water in my oil, but in fact it wasn't a headgasket problem but a blown freeze plug, so there was *lots* of water in the crankcase (all it would hold, in fact - so much that it backed up the PCV lines and came out my air filter box!).

[Gloyale]

I've noticed that placing the HLA into there bores with the holes up helps. They are free to just spin and turn any way after that, but in general I think they stay put. Still likely to tick though.

[idosubaru]

don't disregard other options...but from what i'm hearing the HLA's are suspicious.

 

so there was *lots* of water in the crankcase (all it would hold, in fact - so much that it backed up the PCV lines and came out my air filter box!).

that doesn't surprise me then. that's why i asked. the bad HLA's i've found were in engines that had significant amounts of water in the engine....every other TOD i've ever encountered (probably over 2 dozen??) was solved without addressing the HLA's. i'll also mentoin that the ticking would vary on these.

 

based on the prevoius headgasket failure (yours and the ones i've seen), the known amounts of water in the engines, and the fact that you've narrowed it down to one side/one cylinder, i'm betting it's a seized HLA.

 

if yours is anything like i've seen, the suspect HLA's need replaced. when i pulled them out they would not compress at all, even a millimeter. i soaked them for days in ATF, engine cleaner, heated them and cooled them and tried compressing them with a c clamp and a vice...they wouldn't even budge. they were as frozen as they could be. i can't imagine that they ever would have freed up on their own. so i had to replace them.

 

one nice thing, the first time i dealth with this i wasn't sure but suspected the HLA's. i pulled the cam on that side and noticed that two of the HLA's (this is on a 6 cylinder ER27 so 6 per side) were a different height than the rest. it was hard to tell since they were still sitting in the engine, so i confirmed that by putting a straight edge up to them. they ended up being the two bad ones.

 

hopefully yours will go away. some ATF, MMO oil treatment stuff might do the trick.

[PonchoCatalina]

don't disregard other options...but from what i'm hearing the HLA's are suspicious.

 

that doesn't surprise me then. that's why i asked. the bad HLA's i've found were in engines that had significant amounts of water in the engine....every other TOD i've ever encountered (probably over 2 dozen??) was solved without addressing the HLA's. i'll also mentoin that the ticking would vary on these.

 

based on the prevoius headgasket failure (yours and the ones i've seen), the known amounts of water in the engines, and the fact that you've narrowed it down to one side/one cylinder, i'm betting it's a seized HLA.

 

if yours is anything like i've seen, the suspect HLA's need replaced. when i pulled them out they would not compress at all, even a millimeter. i soaked them for days in ATF, engine cleaner, heated them and cooled them and tried compressing them with a c clamp and a vice...they wouldn't even budge. they were as frozen as they could be. i can't imagine that they ever would have freed up on their own. so i had to replace them.

 

one nice thing, the first time i dealth with this i wasn't sure but suspected the HLA's. i pulled the cam on that side and noticed that two of the HLA's (this is on a 6 cylinder ER27 so 6 per side) were a different height than the rest. it was hard to tell since they were still sitting in the engine, so i confirmed that by putting a straight edge up to them. they ended up being the two bad ones.

 

hopefully yours will go away. some ATF, MMO oil treatment stuff might do the trick.

 

Thanks, Gary - that was exactly the kind of information I was looking for. The guy at the machine shop who milled my heads had indicated the same thing: a lot of water in the crankcase for any significant duration may result in permanently seized HLAs. I just didn't want to tear everything apart and replace them if it was more likely a case of not giving the MMO time to work. Of course, lucky me, it's the DRIVER'S SIDE (always more fun)! Thanks again.

- Ian

[idosubaru]

Of course, lucky me, it's the DRIVER'S SIDE (always more fun)! Thanks again.

odd, the one i'm talking about was 2 HLA's on the drivers side as well. i was equally annoyed that it wasn't the passengers side - much easier!

 

i've had what i suspected to be sticking HLA's free up with ATF and MMO but that's almost always someone elses vehicle and due to infrequent oil changes (my guess). those seem to come free with enough ATF, MMO, seafoam and time. so "maybe" that stuff will work, but no way to tell how bad they are.

 

you "might" be able to verify a bad HLA by just pulling the valve covers and measuring the gap between the top of the HLA and the cam. compare the good and bad cylinders and see what you get. the good ones you might not even be able to get a measurement on if they're really tight. i've never tried it, so don't know how good access is on the d/s ,but seem like it might be possible.

 

if you're going to replace them, Mitpah....i always spell it wrong, but they sell remmaned HLA's for only a few bucks each. well worth it.