Now. Would it be possible?

[Nate007]

I want to change my head gaskets without pulling the motor. is it possible? I really don't want to spend a half day pulling the motor.

[Bucky92]

Yes it is very possible and others have done it plenty of times:)

[Nate007]

Phew... Thank God, and thank you Connie.

[joostvdw]

a ratcheting 10mm is really handy if you want to do HG in the car

[Nate007]

ok, wrap your heads around this one. I drain the oil and out comes about 2 gal of water. This has me concerned because the car has been sitting like this for about a year(since it last ran). Need I do anything else to the motor, or can I go about replacing the HG and be happy?

[daeron]

a ratcheting 10mm is really handy if you want to do HG in the car

 

go to harbor freight now and get a ratcheting 10 mm box wrench... it REALLY makes life much much easier.... and its cheap, like 10 bucks for a five piece set of the cheap ones.

[Nate007]

Things are starting to look grim... took off the valve covers to find this

I guess water mixed with oil got in there somehow, and it sat there for a year. I'm thinking I should pull the motor now.

[Gloyale]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

 

One of the freeze plugs in the head must have popped, allowing coolant into the oil. I'd say that you need to ditch that motor unless you are going to rebuild it completely. The crank bearings have probably been destroyed

[Nate007]

yea, looks like it's going to be a full rebuild. I pulled one of the spark plugs, and it had some of that whit crap stuck to it.

[buzzcon]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

 

One of the freeze plugs in the head must have popped, allowing coolant into the oil. I'd say that you need to ditch that motor unless you are going to rebuild it completely. The crank bearings have probably been destroyed

 

:eek: Ow! What he said. I've been feeling sorry for myself, but you just made me feel better . Find another engine and save yourself a lot of headaches. With the WCSS coming up, if you can't find one locally, you can probably hook up with someone, who could bring one to the show. Good luck to you. ~ Myles ~

[Nate007]

A small fix is turning into a nightmare:banghead:

[Caboobaroo]

Nothing to worry about my friend. I bought a '83 hatch that had the same thing happen (freezeplugs popped in one head) and I had water sit in the crankcase for 8 years!!! Put new freezeplugs in it, new front and rear main seals with new valvecover gasket and oilpan gasket IIRC, and put fresh oil and filter on it. You'll have to change the oil a couple times and on the last oilchange, make sure to replace the filter again. It'll be fine, but its a lot easier to pull an EA81 to do headgaskets on it then to do it with the engine in the car. Then you can also replace most of the seals and gaskets for further maintanence

[Nate007]

yea, I'm going to buy the rebuild kit minus the pistons(Rod bearings, main bearings, full gasket set, timing set, oil pump) too bad it costs soo much...$263.99 from auto zone.

[Caboobaroo]

You're going to need to split the block open to replace the bearings, just an FYI. You'll need the large allen to fit into the plugs for the wrist pins to remove the pins if you're planning on doing the rings as well. I *think* you should be ok with splitting the block apart without removing the pistons to do the bearings but I have never done so myself. Like I said, the bearings are going to be fine since I had one that sat with a ton of water in the crankcase for 8 years and ran good (except for the Carter-Weber carb, ugh) after I got the carb tuned up. I then traded it for my '79 4wd wagon since the rust was so bad, I felt like I was going to fall out from the bottom of the car.

[Nate007]

I've rebuilt chevy motors, so this won't be my first rebuild, And I have all the tools to do it. I'm just going to take it slow and learn along the way.

[Nate007]

BTW... Anyone know of a place to get parts on the cheap?

[Gloyale]

I've rebuilt chevy motors, so this won't be my first rebuild, And I have all the tools to do it. I'm just going to take it slow and learn along the way.

 

 

Totally different animal. You will need to remove the wrist pin plugs and pull the wrist pins to remove the pistons. You need a 14mm allen wrench to remove the wrist pin plugs. If you absolutely can't gfet the wrist pins to come out, there is another way. remove all the case half bolts. Stand the motor on it's back end, and seperate the cases. They will only come apart about 2-3 inches before the pistons run into the main bearing castings. But you should be able to get to 2 of the rod bearing cap bolts for cyl 1 and 3. then squeeze the block back toghether carefully, rotate the crank 1/2 turn and spread the halves again. now you can get to the other 2 bolts and then pistons 1 and 3 can be pushed out the top. use a long 5/8 dowel rod to push the bottoms of the pistons out. now the case can come apart and the other pistons removed easily.

 

Don't forget to get anerobic sealant for the case halves reassembly.

[PonchoCatalina]

...Like I said, the bearings are going to be fine since I had one that sat with a ton of water in the crankcase for 8 years and ran good...

 

I have to second what Caboobaroo said. My Loyale had exactly the same problem - busted freeze plug flooded the oil pan, milkshake goo throughout the whole oil and coolant system, etc. I replaced head gaskets while I was in there, but the real problem was the freeze plug. Never touched the bearings, and all is well thus far. That's not to say that your bearings aren't bad, just that they aren't *necessarily* bad. Also, I may have just been lucky in that the previous owner had used only water with no antifreeze as coolant, as I have heard that antifreeze is what really attacks bearings. Of course, the lack of the corrosion inhibiting factors in antifreeze is what probably caused the freeze plug to fail. The plug was pretty rotten, so I had my machine shop clean up my heads, resurface them, and replace ALL the freeze plugs before re-installing.

[Nate007]

there was no coolant in the oil, just water, so hopefully the bearings are still good. I have a parts cleaner, so I'll probably break the heads down and clean them really well. Also I might look into having the heads decked for more compression.

[Caboobaroo]

there was no coolant in the oil, just water, so hopefully the bearings are still good. I have a parts cleaner, so I'll probably break the heads down and clean them really well. Also I might look into having the heads decked for more compression.

 

If the engine turns over very easily, then you shouldn't have a problem. Now if it has a nasty grinding feeling while turning it over and no sign of rust or such in the cylinders, then yes, the bearings are going to be bad. I highly doubt thats the case though.

[daeron]

ok, wrap your heads around this one. I drain the oil and out comes about 2 gal of water. This has me concerned because the car has been sitting like this for about a year(since it last ran). Need I do anything else to the motor, or can I go about replacing the HG and be happy?

 

I would think that time spent with milkshake goo in the crankcase is different from, "my welsh plugs popped and mixed oil and coolant, i rebuilt it and it was fine..."

 

In other words, it seems to me like these success stories all involve a fairly short turnaround time, and in the OP's case, this engine sat for some time with the bearings exposed to H2O.

 

I am not trying to say that your bearings are trashed.. BUT if I were in your shoes, I would not exactly "rest easy" that your bearings are good based on these two experiences. UNLESS, of course, one or both of them chime in and say that their respective engines ALSO sat like this for some time.

 

Now, I say this, and I was driving my car for about 10-15K miles with a blown head gasket. I was pumping cylinder compression into the cooling system, and getting nasty oilish contamination in my water BUT never saw any signs of water in the oil.... When I did the head job, I did it knowing that this engine may well have a death warrant already issued.. 5,000 miles since the gasket job and no problems thus far, but I figured I would relate my tale.

 

Anyone else care to sound off on the state of bearings that had sat in that goo for a year and a half? I guess if you are gonna tear the thing down you will see for yourself;

 

Oh, and regarding decking the heads... think about it and you will regret asking. How much do you think could be shaved off before the intake manifold failed to fit? The answer is, hardly anything. Compression is already 9.0-9.5:1, depending on exact model year, and your EMS is set up to run all the power it can without pinging. Besides, the intake and exhaust ports are the primary power bottleneck on these engines, and you just cant get past them.

[Caboobaroo]

I would think that time spent with milkshake goo in the crankcase is different from, "my welsh plugs popped and mixed oil and coolant, i rebuilt it and it was fine..."

 

In other words, it seems to me like these success stories all involve a fairly short turnaround time, and in the OP's case, this engine sat for some time with the bearings exposed to H2O.

 

I am not trying to say that your bearings are trashed.. BUT if I were in your shoes, I would not exactly "rest easy" that your bearings are good based on these two experiences. UNLESS, of course, one or both of them chime in and say that their respective engines ALSO sat like this for some time.

 

Now, I say this, and I was driving my car for about 10-15K miles with a blown head gasket. I was pumping cylinder compression into the cooling system, and getting nasty oilish contamination in my water BUT never saw any signs of water in the oil.... When I did the head job, I did it knowing that this engine may well have a death warrant already issued.. 5,000 miles since the gasket job and no problems thus far, but I figured I would relate my tale.

 

Anyone else care to sound off on the state of bearings that had sat in that goo for a year and a half? I guess if you are gonna tear the thing down you will see for yourself;

 

Oh, and regarding decking the heads... think about it and you will regret asking. How much do you think could be shaved off before the intake manifold failed to fit? The answer is, hardly anything. Compression is already 9.0-9.5:1, depending on exact model year, and your EMS is set up to run all the power it can without pinging. Besides, the intake and exhaust ports are the primary power bottleneck on these engines, and you just cant get past them.

 

From one of my previous posts in this thread. Sat for 8+ years in a field with the crankcase full of water and oil.

 

Nothing to worry about my friend. I bought a '83 hatch that had the same thing happen (freezeplugs popped in one head) and I had water sit in the crankcase for 8 years!!!

[daeron]

From one of my previous posts in this thread. Sat for 8+ years in a field with the crankcase full of water and oil.

 

Dude. Honestly. I DID read that post before I made my own.

 

I SWEAR it.. I dont know HOW I skimmed the "8 years" part, both tonight AND when you originally posted that.

 

I'm gonna go back to my corner for a little bit

[Nate007]

well, I got the heads off and what a mess inside the cylinders. and the crank gear is missing a few teeth, which means the cam gear couldnt be too good either. looks like a long, hard expensive rebuild is ahead.

[Nate007]

oh yea. Anyone know of a good subaru parts dealer?