fishingsno Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 After much reasearch, I bought a '98 outback 5 weeks ago. I drove it 1400 miles to Montana and back, where I discovered the guy I bought it from had filled it with some kind of stop-leak. That required a flush and new tstat 200 miles from home. The rest of the trip went well, and I love this car! 2K miles into it I find I need a new EJ25... mine has bad head gaskets, which led to bearing wear, blah, blah. OK, I'm reconciled to reality, but I need advice. Rebuilt or crate? I've heard lots of horror stories about the Japanese crate engines. Any help is appreciated. Crates are available in the Seattle area for about $1200. Rebuilts top $2K. Add gasket kits, pumps and whatever, this thing is starting to top the $4K I paid for it. I know, I know. Guidance, Please.:-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5GL Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Find someone with a wrecked car, pay them $200 bucks for it, drag it to whomever will do the work, pay to have headgaskets done on "donor" engine (all 2.5s will have HG go bad [eventually] if they are not the third generation gaskets), install donor engine into your car, part-out remaining donor making back some of your losses. There will be added labor to remove two engines, perhaps you could remove one yourself and truck it in to the shop where your car is. There are many people here that *may* help... I live too far away though... Just make sure you can get some history on the car and perhaps see if it runs, etc. Lewis BTW: What evidence do you have that proves the bearings are bad? How may miles on yours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishingsno Posted November 10, 2007 Author Share Posted November 10, 2007 I have 140K on this engine. The mechanic says there's a rod knock (I don't know how these engines are supposed to sound, so...), and I can hear the very quiet thunk-thunk on the downside of acceleration. He told me he would swap the engines for $600 or do the head gaskets for the same money. He wouldn't look for the replacement engine; he left that up to me, so I don't see any reason for his suggestion other than real concern. I'd be more cautious if he suggested providing an engine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishingsno Posted November 10, 2007 Author Share Posted November 10, 2007 You know, I have no evidence. I only have the mechanic's opinion. Yikes. This thing did overheat 200 miles from home, and I had to limp back to Ellensburg to get it fixed (quarter-mile runs followed by 15 minute cool-off periods). The tstat was glogged with the stop-leak, and the radiator drain plug was clogged with it, as well. The shop flushed, back-flushed and flushed the rad to lose the gunk, but they didn't add the 'coolant conditioner.) I tried that after I got home. The overheating is intermittent... it will run great for 20 miles, then peg leaving the parking lot. Hey, Mongo just pawn in game of life. What do I know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5GL Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Coolant conditioner AKA stop leak... Don't do it. I would guess you have a bum engine on your hands. If you could source one for a decent price, I think it would be worth the dough to have HG done on the replacement before putting it in. Save the old one and sell it to someone who needs a core to rebuild/play with. Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5GL Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Replace the radiator as well and flush the dickens out of your heater core. Stop leak is designed to plug small holes. So, what is inside of those components??? That's right, a bunch of small holes, soon not to be... Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5GL Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Just remember, getting this fixed (properly) will leave you with a good car if other maintenence is kept up. You could try a post here on the USMB in the classifieds and see if anyone is parting out or selling a motor. I have some down here in Portland, but shipping is $$$$$$ and my company is proud of their stock sooooo... First thing that comes to mind is Aarons auto wrecking in W. Seattle. I know there are others, I just can't think of them at this time of night. There are also about 5, maybe 7 Subaru specialists up there too, check your phone book. Good luck, I hope it comes together for you. Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 If you want the BEST rebuild, go to http://www.ccrengines.com in Denver. If you want to do it on the cheap, get a 95 2.2 out of an auto trans car (with the EGR valve) and swap it in. Works Great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 CCR is your only option for rebuilt, if i were installing a 2.5 i would consider it a waste of time to go with anything else. check them out. if you want to install used, install an EJ22 and avoid the same headaches you're having now, it's a drop in and plug-and-play swap with very small tips needed (all can be found here by searching). you want a used EJ25 that is likely to have the same issues you just had, bad idea. type in "head gasket" and see how many EJ25 posts come up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 CCR is your only option for rebuilt, if i were installing a 2.5 i would consider it a waste of time to go with anything else. check them out. if you want to install used, install an EJ22 and avoid the same headaches you're having now, it's a drop in and plug-and-play swap with very small tips needed (all can be found here by searching). you want a used EJ25 that is likely to have the same issues you just had, bad idea. type in "head gasket" and see how many EJ25 posts come up. the EJ22's are FAR cheaper too, they're a dime a dozen...because they don't blow head gaskets all the time. they can be had for $200 around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrturbo Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Is this car a necesary daily driver? If not you may want to consider pulling the motor and tearing it down. If the cam journals look good and all else looks good I would consider finding a shortblock to go with. The big money in these things are the heads. You could get any shortblock from any 2.5 engine (00 on up you will gain a little in C.R. dept, but nothing major) for a decent price on the boards. If you go with a used motor it would deff be advisable to do the HG's while the motor is out so why not save some cash and just cut your heads and use them. I really can't see throwing that much money into a rebuilt, I don't know exactly what they are going for now but you have to start considering the value of the vehicle before you throw $3-4000 at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene J Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 When our head gaskets went it was an intermittant problem like yours. Replaced the gaskets and all has been well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5GL Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I really can't figure out why 2.5s are getting such a bad rap. I have never had a problem with one after putting in third generation head gaskets. Makes me wonder who's doing the work, and what parts are being used, and if proper head bolt torque specs are followed... Anybody have repeat head gasket failures on the same block/head combo? Please explain what happens, who fixed, what they used, how they did it, ect. I am just amazed at the negativity towards this engine, and would like to see if there is a reason why. Don't get me wrong though, 2.2s are good, reliable, bullit proof, and economical. Statistically less problems than a 2.5, but man, condemnation for a head gasket failure that is a "parts" based problem, remedied with a newer HG. Oh, and I know, piston slap... but how many truly have this problem when regularly maintained?:-\ Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subieguy Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 What is CCR charging for a EJ-25? Anybody have any idea? I just brought home a 98 Forester today with a rod sticking out the top of the block. I kind of am in need of a replacement motor myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 you can do a search here for more information. there is extensive info and posts on it and a thread about "repeat" failures, they are very rare. if done properly the head gaskets rarely fail again. internal engine failure (bearings) is more common on EJ25's. to those of us absorbed in the subaru community, resourceful and handy with mechanics no big deal. to the average owner wanting (and expecting) a reliable, problem free, low maintenance cost daily driver, the EJ25 can be a financial burden. make decisions accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomson1355 Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 The mechanic will do the head gaskets for $600? I'd be tempted to risk it at that price. Can you find acouple of other 2.5s around that you can listen to? It's possible that the noise you hear is piston slap which is common in these engines and not fatal. I love the 2.5s. They are reasonably peppy and fun to drive. We have three that have all been bought with bda head gaskets and driven, I'm sure thousands of miles with bad head gaskets. Replacing the HGs solved the problems and they all run like tops with an average of 175,000K on them. I'm not advocating being foolish, I'm just pointing out that these engines can take some abuse without developing bearing problems. At least they have in my case. YMMV. If your mechaninc is not familiar with the noises these engines make he may mistake the piston slap for bearing knock. The engines can be pretty noisy. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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