sparkydave Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 My wife has decided her '05 Legacy wagon is a little too quirky for her liking, and out of the blue says she doesn't trust it anymore and wants to trade in for an Outback. Only trouble is, we're still paying for it, and I had figured we'd get rid of my car first ('04 Honda CR-V). I have a 43 mile commute with frequent traffic jams, and the stick shift is losing its appeal. The gas mileage isn't too bad (averages 27 MPG), but figured I'd get something with an automatic that's a little more efficient. Here's why she doesn't trust hers: -A few months after she bought it, it started having trouble starting in the cold, and one day it flooded. We coaxed it back to life, the dealer looked at it for 3 weeks, but couldn't find anything wrong with it. They reprogrammed the transmission control module, probed out some wiring harnesses, but couldn't pinpoint anything wrong. To add to that, the dealer eventually went under, and all records of the work they did were lost other than notes my wife took detailing how long it was there and what they did. Since they reprogrammed it, the shift points are different, and when it's cold it seems to like shifting into 4th annoyingly early. -The display occasionally shows "ILL.3" on the trip odometer. The dealer said it was a message that the display illumination changed, but it does this randomly without touching anything. I searched around, and found a few others who see this. -The transmission is slow to shift from reverse to first when cold. She also says she sometimes hears a grating sound when she does this, as though the clutches were slipping. We've changed fluid a couple of times, and it's better, but still a 1-2 second pause between putting it in "D" and actually having it go into first. -The factory battery was replaced last year, because it was cranking very slow when cold. I measured the voltage and confirmed it was dropping below 7 volts when it was only 30 degrees out, so we replaced it. All was well, but now she says it's doing it again. I didn't find any significant parasitic loads (about 30 milliamps tops), and the alternator seems to be doing fine. I haven't had a chance to check the cranking voltage again yet. She insists it's not like it used to be, even though I pointed out that any car will crank slower in the cold. -Her CD player only works for about an hour, then stops playing. Radio works fine. -She gets a strange smell of burning rubber (more like hoses, belts, or tires than wires) from under the hood sometimes. Dealer couldn't find anything. I can't find anything either, and I haven't found any glazed belts or damaged hoses. I figured since my Honda is worth more at this point, I was going to entertain the idea that we should trade in my car, I'll take her car, and she can get the new Outback. That way, I have a more efficient car with an automatic to drive to work, she can allay her fears that this car is going to leave her stranded, and we can keep our vehicle which is already equipped with a tow hitch and trans cooler for towing our camper. Any thoughts? Does it sound like this car with only 60,000 miles should be gotten rid of? She fears her car is a lemon, but I can't tell that there are really significant problems that can't be fixed. I figured the screwy shift points can be fixed with another firmware upgrade (assuming enough folks complained that Subaru came up with a different one), the odometer "ILL.3" message is a quirk I could live with, the CD player could be replaced (I usually listen to the radio anyway), and the slow cranking when cold can be fixed. The only ones I'd be really concerned about is the strange burning rubber smell, and the grating noise when putting it into "D". Granted, a transmission can be replaced too, but that isn't cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobyclimbs Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I think the burning smell is common with the undercoating...mine took almost two years to finally go away...I'd keep the car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkydave Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 Thanks for the tip on the undercoating, I hadn't looked at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 the smells are probably not anything to worry about. you said you have a transmission cooler - is that on the Subaru? if so, that might be your problem. it's so flat in ohio that when you're not towing your transmission fluid isn't reaching normal operating temperature, particularly this time of year (cold). i would not think this is your issue, but worth looking into. many transmissions do shift differently based on temperatures, for instance some vehicles typically would not shift into 4th until operating temperature is reached. the shifting, noises, and delay going into gear are the ones i would be concerned about. those could be transmission related issues that will get worse over time, though it could easily be 10 years and 150 k before you see that, but odd all the same. speed sensors/circuits can do strange things to the transmission and odometer...i'm wondering if those are related? older automatic subaru's with speed sensor issues will stall out while coasting and have odometer mis-readings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkydave Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 Thanks Gary, the cooler is on the Subaru, but it did the early 4th gear shifts even before we put the aftermarket cooler on. It only does that when the engine is cold, not after it's warmed up, so I don't think the cooler is to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uniberp Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Thanks Gary, the cooler is on the Subaru, but it did the early 4th gear shifts even before we put the aftermarket cooler on. It only does that when the engine is cold, not after it's warmed up, so I don't think the cooler is to blame. How heavy is your camper and what mountain have you towed it over how fast? Wondering if a Leg is strong enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkydave Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 The camper weighs about 2000 pounds. Some hills we've dropped to about 55 MPH in 3rd gear, but made sure that when the torque converter disengaged then we put it into sport shift mode and locked it in 3rd so the torque converter slippage wasn't heating the fluid like crazy. Coolant temperature stayed normal, but since there's no trans fluid temperature gauge, I couldn't say how hot it got. The fluid never smelled scorched (even before we put a cooler on), and the AT temp light never came on. We added the cooler to help keep it cool. What "Leg" are you referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uniberp Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 The camper weighs about 2000 pounds. Some hills we've dropped to about 55 MPH in 3rd gear, but made sure that when the torque converter disengaged then we put it into sport shift mode and locked it in 3rd so the torque converter slippage wasn't heating the fluid like crazy. Coolant temperature stayed normal, but since there's no trans fluid temperature gauge, I couldn't say how hot it got. The fluid never smelled scorched (even before we put a cooler on), and the AT temp light never came on. We added the cooler to help keep it cool. What "Leg" are you referring to? Leg-acy. That seems pretty heavy to me. I was thinking it might make a reference point for others who tow and may have similar symptoms. How do you tell "when the torque converter disengaged"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Pin Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I'd keep it and work out the bugs. Switch cars with her perhaps while this gets done. I'd hate to trade a car out that I still owe on. Come to think of it, I never owe an any car I have, but I gave up on cars I can't pay cash for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetone Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Although the economics and the reality don't make sense, either trade it in or switch cars with her permanently (if she can drive a stick). Keep your wife happy. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkydave Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 Leg-acy. That seems pretty heavy to me. I was thinking it might make a reference point for others who tow and may have similar symptoms. How do you tell "when the torque converter disengaged"? Ah, didn't realize that's what you meant. The torque converter disengages when it feels like it downshifted (it shudders and the engine RPMs go up), but it hasn't downshifted to third. I know it hasn't downshifted to third because in sport shift mode it still indicates it's in fourth, and if we downshift to third the RPMs go up considerably higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarupusher Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 60,000 miles in less than 3 years and you tow 2K around too? I think you are wearing the girl out. I think a brand new Subaru of any class could show similar symptoms if worked like that for 3 years. I know Subarus have ratings for towing but I raise my eyebrows when I see one towing anything. I notice a drop in mileage and some drag when I just put a bike on my hitch mounted bike rack. My solution was to buy a truck for towing and hauling heavy loads. Keeps the 2 Subarus in the family fresh for regular excursions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virrdog Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Honestly, it sounds like you just need to find a good dealer that will service the car correctly. Where in Ohio are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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