First Symptoms Of HG??

[deks69]

Ok my 98 Legecy GT 2.5 just had it's 100,000 mile birthday not to long ago, well as I ran into the store today, I came out to the temp gage in the Hot! It wasnt passed it, but touching the H. Was still in the so called "normal" range, whatever that means, Hot is Hot. Anyway, I moved parking spots and the temp dropped back down to normal. Went back to the middle of the gage where it always is. I dont know if it went beyond the H or not, as I was not in the car, it was still running never stalled. I popped the hood and the Antifreeze was pretty high in the resevor, turned the car off and checked the oil, and seemed a little runny, but could have been just warm oil, as I didnt notice any bubbles or no smell of antifreeze. So this might be the first signs of a HG issue? Like I had a bubble from sucking air for a second? I think It must have already been done once, because according to some of you on this site it appears to have the newer Head Gaskets. Called some local shops and the quote was 1600! Thats if I dont have to get anything milled. :-\ What you all think, Reading a hell of alot on 2.5's Im guessing its the HG.

 

P.S. I Still have the OEM Repair Manual in PDF for all subarus years 94-2000 that someone way back wanted to host but never got back to me, if (whoever you are) still interested.

[idosubaru]

as I ran into the store today, I came out to the temp gage in the Hot!

you never say whether you turned the car off when you went into the store.

 

 

bubbling in the overflow tank after the car is shut off and overheating are the initial indications. they both get worse with time.

[idosubaru]

double post

[subsince77]

My 97 2.5 did something similar, but did not get nearly that hot. It started intermittently getting slightly hotter than it should, then dropping back to normal, and the fans were running too much. I panicked, but there were no other indications of an HG problem. It turned out to just be a faulty thermostat. I replaced it with one from napa, because the nearest Subaru dealer is 150 miles away. I had noticed how different the aftermarket thermo was, but tried it anyway. I had the same problem within a couple of weeks. Then I really panicked, but ordered a Subaru thermostat. The temp has been rock solid ever since. I would at least try a new SUBARU thermostat, if you don't have other symptoms. Not all 2.5 HGs fail, and not all that early. I know its a common problem, but remember you are reading a forum for people that are having problems with their cars, so you read about a high percentage of problems. Stay calm, it might be simple. If not, you can always panic later.

[screwbaru2]

My 97 is sitting in the driveway same thing second time around. I drove it for 6 months after the symptoms started. It would overheat for awhile then return to normal. Used the A/C and heater no problem. About a month ago the thermostat stayed shut, knowing I was going to replace the 2.5 w/ a 2.2 I kept driving it! I drove it to work and back 100 mi. round trip for a week, gauge pegged to MAX before it died. Look for a 2.2 to replace it. Don't waste your money on the 2.5 it is JUNK!!!! If you have a boat use the 2.5 as a mooring anchor! Good luck

[screwbaru2]

Also when the engine starts to get hot turn the A/C on, that will get the A/C (second fan) running and help it cool down. You can leave the heat turned up.

[idosubaru]

don't forget to answer the important question - was the car running the entire time?

[deks69]

Yes the car was running the entire time, Should have been more specific I guess, I didnt know a car could over heat while off! Ok enough wise rump roast comments lol. Yes left car idle, (had just drove about 17 miles 80mph the whole way (highway). went into the store, came back out, temp in the hot zone. Drove the car to a different parking spot, and temp went back to normal. Turned car off and looked under the hood. Resivor was almost full, NOT BUBBLEING though. And oil seemed wet, but like I said I've seen antifreeze in oil in the past (not my car, blew an HG in my truck) but this didnt look like that. It wasnt frothy, but did look wet, also could have been thinned from being so warm. Im going to try and get a thermostate, just to make sure that isnt what stuck. But Like I said it appears this car has already had a HG job. Where do I find a different engine? I would like a 2.0 turbo for that sucker. The car itself is mint, and actually the motor was too.

 

Oh I passed this off as being an exhaust leak, but there is like this clicking or ticking sound that I hear while I drive. It speeds up when I accerlerate. It doesnt sound like a bering or valves, not that concerned about it. I can only hear it when I drive, If I pop the hood and rev it up I cant hear it, only in movement. Started happening after they redid my clucth, and had to take the exhaust of again to fix the seal for the driveshaft.

[fnlyfnd]

Could it be as simple as a fan problem, such as - it not turning on while left in idle while you ran inside.

[idosubaru]

Yes the car was running the entire time, Should have been more specific I guess, I didnt know a car could over heat while off!

cool. you're about to learn something even though you thought you were poking fun of my question. some outer parts of the engine get hottest AFTER you turn the car off. the heat from the combustion chamber migrates outwardly the instant you turn the car off. the coolant is no longer flowing and some "outer" parts of the engine will begin to rise in temperature. it is not uncommon, i've even seen it in Subaru's, to see the temperature gauge higher than normal if you have recently driven it. start the engine and the gauge will drop back down to normal very quickly as the coolant circulates. this is normal and is why i asked about your excursion into the store. this is also why many vehicle fires actually start after the engine is turned off. many people reply or tell stories indicating how "weird" or "strange" this is, but it really makes complete sense.

 

you always want to check obvious things first, and while this sounds like HG stuff, you haven't seen bubbles in the overflow yet - that is a sure indicator usually. these don't typically show coolant/oil mixing, that's not how they fail, you saw just what you guessed - hot oil that was very thin, normal as you guessed. be sure to get a subaru thermostat and check the inlet and outlet hoses...make sure they are both hot. the radiator is 10 years old and could be partially clogged.

 

i would not install a used EJ25, that's about the worst thing you could do unless you know it's in great condition and has new headgaskets, but those are hard to find (though i have one). because of head gaskets blowing, the motors are in high demand and the going rate is $1,000 for any off the shelf motor with the original head gaskets. way too much for something that might blow. your motor sounds good, i'd have it fixed. $1,000 - $1,500 the average price for a dealer to fix it and yo'uve got yourself a great motor. in my opinion, if you can't find a cheap EJ25 and refuse getting it fixed the only other option in my opinion is a rebuilt from CCR (top of the line Subaru specialist rebuilders, with a 3 year 36k warranty).

 

i'm not well versed in the turbo swaps, NASIOC is a great resource for that kind of stuff. they have all that information outlined fairly well there.

[deks69]

Thanks grossgary, I was just joking, I did know about the engine can actually get hotter, as there is no circulation. That's why I didnt turn it off, and rather tried to cool it down while it was still running. I would actually just get the engine fixed, I dont see anything else wrong with that motor. It would be stupid just to junk it and find something else. I couldnt get a better motor or car for 1600. Thats what my local dealer is quoting me for a HG fix, 1600-1800 bucks! I am going to do some shopping around first, and try some of those small fixes. Thermostat etc. And for as old as the car is, the radiator is in pretty good shape, No discoloration, under the cap is all clean. the Coolent resevor is so clean it looks new etc. I am not going to jump on that wagon that says 2.5's are junk, I just dont see that. Other then that damn CEI light that says I have a missfire on Cyl #1, and have done everything I could to fix it with no go, I havent had any problems with the motor, starts up every time, no matter what the temp is. Runs awesome, so some develop HG issues, "some" is the operative word here, and of course its going to look like everyone has this issue, this is a troubleshooting Fourm for Subarus. People arent going to complain about thier HG's Not blowing.

[idosubaru]

you may be able to find someone in the $1,000 - $1,200 ballpark to fix the head gasket, dealers are usually the top end of the spectrum and are not always very nice when it comes to pricing a new water pump and other bits to go with it. they typically add exorbitantly to the job, but can be talked down some. it's tough to find, but a good shop/mechanic can get you in the $1,000 area and will only charge costs for any extra parts you may want/need - like water pump, oil pump seals, pulleys and such.

 

i'm well-versed in subaru's, so i know all about "some" and EJ series engines. i get lots of subaru requests and questions locally, i shop weekly for them and have bought quite a few this year. my experience is well above anecdotal and what i read/see on the internet.

[idosubaru]

That's why I didnt turn it off, and rather tried to cool it down while it was still running.

for the EJ25, when the head gaskets first start to go the only way to get them to cool down is to turn the car off. even letting it idle while drifting down a long grade mountain will make them continue to overheat. i have yet to see/drive one that did something different.

 

so if you had a different experience, this may point to yours not being the head gasket and it being something else.

[deks69]

Yes it cooled down without me turning it off. I only turned it off when the temp started to go down to check the oil. So maybe It was something different. I can only hope. Like I said before I do think its got the updated HG's, so obvioulsy it had to have been done to get the newer style. Who knows maybe the Fans didnt kick on, but it was pretty cold out that day. Im going to check the anti-freeze freezing point tommorrow. I cant remember if it was this car or another one I own that said it was only good to 10 below. Could have been the problem. Iced up or something. I can only hope. I'll check it tommorrow.

 

And finding the right Mechanic that knows subarus will be an issue. Im in ford country where I live and I dont trust some back yard mechanic to do a job like that. I would trust myself over them. Could do it with all the manuels and how to's I have from this site, but no time. Thats why I figured the dealership was the best beat since they are at least a subaru dealer. I'll let you know what I come up with.

[deks69]

Yes Now I Feel like a dip ************. The coolent was only good to -10 below. Looks like some new coolent should do it. I feel kinda stupid now. Any thing I should watch out for when changing the coolent? If I pull the plug on the radiator, or even unattach the bottom hose and put some new antifreeze in will that be fine? I read somewhere that changing the fluid can be a pain with air bubbles and stuff on them. Or is that replacing the radiator and having no fluid in there? I should be able to get the freezing point down buy just draining the radiator (not the block) and putting the proper mix in right?

[Scottbaru]

Could misfiring be an early symptom? A friend of mine is trying to diagnose his '01 OB, says he had misfiring when cold, recently overheated, suspects HG. One HG was replaced under warranty, and he took the stopleak. He says his oil looks good, and no bubbles.

[deks69]

Well my code is the 9004 or something, detects a missfire on cyl#1, (this the code your getting?) and its been tripping that code since I bought the car. I think mine is do to a valve not adjusted correctly, (vacume test was the only thing I didnt do) because I replaced everything else ike Plugs, Wires, Coil, etc in attempts to stop tripping that code. Mine only does it after I have been driving on the highway for any extended period of time, hovering around a constant speed anywhere between 70-80. If I drive 71mph or any constant speed after about 60 miles it will trip the code, (trips the code more using cruse) but if I variate my speed it ussally wont trip the code, I have learned to live with the CEL. I dont (at least w/my car) beleave it has anything to do with the HG. More then likely they didnt adjust the Valve clearence correctly when they replaced the HG the first time, (if they indeed did) I only think this because there is mechanic paint on all the engine parts (like when You pull engines apart to make sure it goes back together the same) and it looks like updated HG's. Nothing in car fax showed up that the car had been worked on for HG's, so its just an educated guess.

[Scottbaru]

Not sure about the code, it's my friends car, I didn't know he was having trouble 'till yesterday. He says it actually ran rough on cold starts, like a cylinder misfiring. He's thinking now it was clearing the coolant from the cylinder. He took it to a dealer, plans to get it to his indy after they take a look. It's about a five-mile drive, hopefully that won't do damage. If the oil looks good, it should do no more damage if it doesn't get hot.

[awesomedude]

Man i cant believe people find it reasonable to pay anywhere near $1000 let alone $1600!!!!to have hg replacement on a subaru.Buy some tools,find a space,and get a manual...by the end you will have learned something and saved money.I would get between $6-750 for that job in my shop.