early ej in later legacy

[mountaingoatgruff]

doin an engine swap and wondering, are there compatability issues between an early ej22 from a 92 auto fwd sedan and a 96 obw auto awd?

 

i expect to have to swap connectors here and there, i would think the maf's are the same, as well as the flywheels and the torque converters.

 

should go in without too much trouble, right?

[idosubaru]

just swap the engine without the intake on it. leave the 96 intake manifold in the 96 and bolt it to the older engine.

 

the earlier engine will be a dual port exhaust so you'll need a dual port exhaust header to make it work, but it will easily swap and bolt in place of the 96 header.

[mountaingoatgruff]

so a 96 engine is single port exhaust?

 

maybe better off just doing hg's on the 96 engine... car has coolant in the exhaust while running and has been overheated a bit so i was thinking swap the engine. would i be okay doing hg's & having the heads resurfaced or does overheating render the bottom end suspect?

 

also, any trouble with a goodyear timing belt? i know the "dealer only" rotine and i agree but trying to save a friend $.

[idosubaru]

the 1996 OBW should be a DOHC EJ25 - in that case it's a dual port exhaust. NOT SINGLE. but that would have been easier to deal with than the problem at hand now.

 

you'll need to bolt the EJ25 flexplate to the EJ22 or use the EJ22 torque converter and EJ22 flexplate. (basically the flexplate and torque converter have to come from the same vehicle.)

 

the EJ25 intake manifold won't bolt onto your EJ22. make sure the 1996 OBW has EGR (it will) and that any engine or intake you're considering also has EGR (the earlier EJ should as well). you have a couple options:

 

1. you can try and fit the EJ25 intake manifold wiring harness onto your EJ22. i've never done it but it shouldn't be too hard and i can't think of any glitches. this would be the cheap way since you have all of these parts.

 

2. you can get a 1996 EJ22 intake manifold. this is what i would do just because it's easy. it will bolt to your EJ22 and plug right into the EJ25 wiring harness. no transferring wires, sensors and it plugs right in.

 

i wouldn't hesitate with the goodyear belt. the subaru belts are only $59 i think though, is the goodyear cheaper?

[EVOthis]

not sure if this matters but.....OBD vs OBDII

[idosubaru]

not sure if this matters but.....OBD vs OBDII

yes, it does - that's why he needs to do all the intake wiring steps i mentioned above.

[mountaingoatgruff]

i was told the outback has a 2.2, but i haven't checked myself.

 

the obd vs obdII thing is why i anticipated some wiring work but just looking at this 92 ej22 and my 97 legacy that seems okay.

 

i'll be calling the guy later and seeing if i can't pull the heads and maybe just do hg's!

 

just for curiosity's sake... do early dual port heads flow better and if so, can they be used on later ej22's? i mean, could you take a 96 or 97 ej22 and bolt up 92 heads or would it even be worthwhile?

 

edit: goodyear t-belt is $36 at my local kragens with 1year warranty.

[subaru360]

i was told the outback has a 2.2, but i haven't checked myself.

 

the obd vs obdII thing is why i anticipated some wiring work but just looking at this 92 ej22 and my 97 legacy that seems okay.

 

i'll be calling the guy later and seeing if i can't pull the heads and maybe just do hg's!

 

just for curiosity's sake... do early dual port heads flow better and if so, can they be used on later ej22's? i mean, could you take a 96 or 97 ej22 and bolt up 92 heads or would it even be worthwhile?

 

edit: goodyear t-belt is $36 at my local kragens with 1year warranty.

 

96 would have a 2.2 if it's a 5 speed. 2.5 if it's an auto.

 

The old heads are just about the same, just different exhaust ports. No point in changing them.

[idosubaru]

i was told the outback has a 2.2, but i haven't checked myself.

you'll want to make sure this makes a big difference in how you go from here.

just for curiosity's sake... do early dual port heads flow better and if so, can they be used on later ej22's? i mean, could you take a 96 or 97 ej22 and bolt up 92 heads or would it even be worthwhile?.

no.

1995 and earlier EJ22's = dual port exhaust

1996+ EJ22's = single port exhaust.

 

you can't bolt a dual port exhuast up to a head with only one exhaust port in it...well maybe you *could* bolt it up...but wow would that be silly! round peg in a square hole type of thing.

[mountaingoatgruff]

you'll want to make sure

 

for sure, but i'll wait till he calls again and ask him to verify.

 

round peg in a square hole type of thing.

 

figures, but i just thought i'd ask. i'm sure the newer heads have equivalent or greater flow then?

 

personally i prefer the aesthetics of a 4-2-1 header under an older ej. does anybody make them?

[mountaingoatgruff]

so the outback is a 2.5, good call guys.

 

the symptoms as explained to me seem to be that there's exhaust gasses in the rad, temp gauge goes up and down randomly while driving and the car is loosing coolant slowly.

 

pretty sure that's a hg, right?

 

i told him i don't really want to do hg on a 2.5 after all i've heard about them. i suggested swapping in a 2.2 and he really wants to go that route.

 

so, to put a 92 ej22 into a 96 auto outback all i need to do is

 

1. use a matched flexplate & torque converter (both from one engine or the other)

 

2. either wire the ej25 intake harness to the ej22's or get a 96+ ej22 intake

 

i guess the exhaust flanges are the same between the dual-port ej22 and the ej25 then?

 

also, would i need to swap out the ej25's ecu for a 96+ ej22's if i use a 96+ ej22 intake? if by wiring the ej25 harness to the older ej22 intake i can avoid replacing the ecu then that's good to know too.

[idosubaru]

pretty sure that's a hg, right?

what? an EJ25 blowing a headgasket...that's hard to believe?!?? just kidding - those are classic EJ25 HG. it's never a bad idea to check other things and make sure it's not something simple.

so, to put a 92 ej22 into a 96 auto outback all i need to do is

 

1. use a matched flexplate & torque converter (both from one engine or the other)

 

2. either wire the ej25 intake harness to the ej22's or get a 96+ ej22 intake

correct, i would plan on keeping the known good EJ25 stuff.

i guess the exhaust flanges are the same between the dual-port ej22 and the ej25 then?

yep!

also, would i need to swap out the ej25's ecu for a 96+ ej22's if i use a 96+ ej22 intake? if by wiring the ej25 harness to the older ej22 intake i can avoid replacing the ecu then that's good to know too.

nope, just leave the ECU either way it'll run great.

look at that, almost all answers you wanted to hear!

[mountaingoatgruff]

sweet.

 

i'll let the dude decide whether he wants to find & buy a 96+ manifold or if he'll have me wire in the 92.

 

so does subaru make so many parts interchangeable on purpose? its really nice to start out thinking "man if i could only..." and end up finding out you can!

 

also, since i'll probably be left to deal with the bad ej25, any suggestions there? could it be trusted after resurfacing/pressure testing/rebuilding the heads, assuming there's no warp in the crankcase surfaces, or would it barely be worth selling as is?

[idosubaru]

depends what you mean by "on purpose"...just to make stuff interchangeable, no that is not why they do it. they do it to keep costs down. if you have a particular set up...it's not cost effective to retool, redesign, reconfigure, and remanufacture everything from scratch. building on what you have reduces costs and can be more efficient when leveraged to your advantage.

 

the demand for EJ25's is high. this is one way can really tell the extent of the problem. blown head gasket EJ25's can sell easily for a few hundred dollars up to $500. a known good EJ25 can fetch $1,000 and that's with original head gaskets. the prices are high because demand is high....because they blow headgaskets-a-plenty.

 

replacing the headgaskets is generally a fine idea and gives you a perfectly reliable engine. the only thing you have to worry about is a cracked block but there's really no way to test for that. chances are small though and assuming the car wasnt' consistently driven, abused and overheated it should be fine. the more it was overheated and driven that way the higher the chances are of it having a bad block. so if you're going on someone elses's word that doesn't know much about cars proceed slowly.

 

look at EJ18's and EJ22's....a dime a dozen. they are EASY to buy for $150 (more in less subaru-rich areas)...from a yard, low mileage, with a warranty....you'll never even come close to finding a consistent source of EJ25's for even 3 times that amount.

[mountaingoatgruff]

this is the scene under the hood:

 

 

the evaporated coolant mess is only within a 10" radius of the rad and overflow caps.

 

i watched in the rad and the overflow and saw some bubbles in the rad but not the overflow. it was pretty low in there, so i filled it and the bubbles may have been just air making it's way out.

 

i also noticed the at fluid temp light blinking after i started the car, but it went away a bit later. scanning showed nothing wrong, of course.

 

i'm going to clean the opening of the rad really well and top off the coolant then with a known good cap i'll check everything out again.

 

any suggestions for pinpointing a failed hg or isolating the problem elsewhere? its not obvious at this point and i'd love to find something else wrong!