Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Hmmm, missing bolts on TC and flex plate is wha?


  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

#1 kirbykirb

kirbykirb

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • Florida

Posted 04 August 2010 - 10:12 PM

So,

You know those bolts that go on the torque converter right, for the 4EAT's..


basically these one here..

Posted Image

WELL... took me a few minutes when I was turning the main pulley with a 22 socket that there were no bolts! :eek: of course I was shocked and then decided eff it and pull the motor a bit. Torque converter is still on the transmisison!

no bolts holding the TC in.

Now, is this bad or what? I've ran the car with about 10,000 miles with the torque converter like this, no apparent issues I guess. :|

Also, flex plate. where is it? It goes on the TC right?

this is what im looking for.....

Posted Image

#2 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,351 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 05 August 2010 - 07:34 AM

the 4 bolts you show in the torque converter are supposed to bolt it onto the flex plate which you show in the second pic. the flex plate is bolted on to the crank with 8 bolts. there are no bolts holding the TC on to the trans.

i find it hard to believe that you can drive an auto trans engine without the flex and TC bolted together. but who knows.

tell me again why you are swapping the trans??? maybe if you put in the bolts you don't need a trans????

did i miss read this?? what's going on.????

#3 kirbykirb

kirbykirb

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • Florida

Posted 05 August 2010 - 08:19 AM

I'm not swapping in a transmission; but apparantly the 4 bolts and the flex plate are just a cons pricey in needing them.

I'm swapping engines. And apparantly :lol:I don't have a flex plate!

my car is such a wonder im surprised it hasn't blown up.

#4 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,351 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 05 August 2010 - 08:49 AM

ok, i still don't see how it moved, but what ever.

the flex plate matches the TC, 2.5s are larger than 2.2s. either one will bolt on to either engine. so just make sure you get the one you need. the trans in the picture is a 95 2.2L auto trans.

what car / trans are you working with??

and in case i haven't already said it, make sure you correctly seat the TC before you bolt up the trans to the engine.

#5 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,825 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 05 August 2010 - 10:54 AM

The flex plate is bolted to the crankshaft.

I suppose with enough rust the pilot shaft of the TC could glue itself to the pilot bore on the crankshaft. :confused:
Maybe you were sleep wrenching and removed the bolts already and didn't know it? :lol:

#6 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,240 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 05 August 2010 - 11:00 AM

If the TC wasn't seated properly last time it was installed, and was just squeezed tight between the engien and trans, it could have just been friction holding tight to the engine.....of course if that happened...the pump is trashed.

I would highly suggest pulling the TC out of the trans and inspecting the pump drive tube for any signs of heat or obvious damage.

Replace those split ring seals on the tube when you reinstall. Dealers ussually have them in stock for a few bucks.

#7 kirbykirb

kirbykirb

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • Florida

Posted 05 August 2010 - 05:48 PM

WELL...

Remember how I said there were no bolts...

WELL THEY BROKE OFF. Thats why the car didn't work and the bad bearing sound. Now I have two cars that are dyeing with the flexplate! The outback I've been using is making that sound. ;_; noooooooooooo

I know I was sounding pretty stupid, I was wondering myself wtf I was saying.... :eek:so please excuse the ignorance as I give you flex plate theater.


Posted Image

oh hay, theres no bolts. I thought someone didn't put them in and I was free! FREE!

Posted Image

Zoom up!


Posted Image
:( The carnage!

Posted Image


Posted Image

The defendent! The damnd criminal!


I guess when I paid someone to do the transmisison swap; they didn't put in the proper bolts needed for the job (yeah they worked; but wern't strong enough, or reused old abused bolts or cut off some, or something I don't know.

So, my engine was fine. I was spinning it with a breaker bar on the front pulley clock wise and it turned, counterclockwise and the damn bolt wanted to come off!

So, I did a half done engine swap (had problems alining the EJ22 up to the 4EAT TZ102Z1ABA-CH, the left middle stud.

So, you know what I'm going to do. I'm going to push in there the EJ22 since I know that works (for now). And figure out a way to tap out the bolts from the torque converter (without having to remove it from the transmsiion; I am SO NOT dealing with having to realign the cooling pump.)

Right now, I'm just in rage mode.

oh, and if you guys are curious how I'm doing this swap. ;D

Also, should I replace the flex plate? I have a feeling it did it before... and reusing it = :|. so bleh.

Posted Image

Posted Image

HAPPINESS; OR SO I THOUGHT!

Posted Image

Pic of

Posted Image

pic of my my setup with my neighbor helping me. we live in garages. :lol::lol: actually my HOA told me if I messed with my subie out in the open. :mad:

#8 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,351 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 05 August 2010 - 05:55 PM

it will be quicker and easier to use the flex plate and TC from the other engine/ trans. especially since you have them already. you can address the busted bolts when you need to, if you ever need to.

these are legos, they snap together.

#9 kirbykirb

kirbykirb

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • Florida

Posted 05 August 2010 - 06:02 PM

it will be quicker and easier to use the flex plate and TC from the other engine/ trans. especially since you have them already. you can address the busted bolts when you need to, if you ever need to.

these are legos, they snap together.



Sadly can't, my spare part car was a 5mt. Now if you're saying a clutch plate will snap onto a 4EAT... :banana:

But I think I'm going to try to tap it and see whats up, hopefully I won't have to go to a junkyard and do ALL THIS FSDKFSDFSJAF just for a Flex Plate. (Subaru funfun hour is :mad: dancing!)

Ironically, I also wish right now I had a manual so I would've have to mess with this bs. :|

#10 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,351 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 05 August 2010 - 06:35 PM

if you have to use it, pull it out of the trans, set it nose down and drill out the busted bolts from the back side. use lots of pblaster to loosen them up and a dril bit smaller than the shaft of the bolt. you can always use a bigger bit and just drill out the whole thing and re tap it . but if drilling the bolt causes it to spin out, all the better. thats what you really want, no tapping then.

re-seating the TC is not hard if you know you need to do it. it the folks who do not know they need to go an extra bit who screw up. and check it's position before you pull it in the first place so you will have a reference point. maybe mark it.

keep at it, you are getting close now.

#11 kirbykirb

kirbykirb

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • Florida

Posted 05 August 2010 - 06:51 PM

if you have to use it, pull it out of the trans, set it nose down and drill out the busted bolts from the back side. use lots of pblaster to loosen them up and a dril bit smaller than the shaft of the bolt. you can always use a bigger bit and just drill out the whole thing and re tap it . but if drilling the bolt causes it to spin out, all the better. thats what you really want, no tapping then.

re-seating the TC is not hard if you know you need to do it. it the folks who do not know they need to go an extra bit who screw up. and check it's position before you pull it in the first place so you will have a reference point. maybe mark it.

keep at it, you are getting close now.


From behind? :( you mean I can't try to drill it from the front in reverse?

(raaaaaaaaaaaaaaage)

#12 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,351 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 05 August 2010 - 07:45 PM

From behind? :( you mean I can't try to drill it from the front in reverse?

(raaaaaaaaaaaaaaage)


drilling clockwis from the back, if / when the the bit grabs it will thread the bolt back the way it came in.

you can do the same thing from the front if you have left handed dill bits.

#13 kirbykirb

kirbykirb

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • Florida

Posted 05 August 2010 - 07:52 PM

drilling clockwis from the back, if / when the the bit grabs it will thread the bolt back the way it came in.

you can do the same thing from the front if you have left handed dill bits.


Thanks, harbor freight in the morning. ;)

any idea what size bolts are the ones for the torque converter to the flex plate?

#14 Fuzpile

Fuzpile

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 318 posts

Posted 05 August 2010 - 11:07 PM

The pics don't come in completely. There was some carnage visible. one can see where the TC was flying around but those dished ground out bolt areas on the flywheel are trouble. I am not the one to be of assistance thru this like others here who know vastly more. I believe we would agree you got hosed.:-\

#15 Fuzpile

Fuzpile

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 318 posts

Posted 05 August 2010 - 11:16 PM

Pay close attention to what John said. He recommended drilling from the back because that direction would unwind, if at all, the proper direction.
Drilling out bolts is tricky and there should be some temporary guide bushing or predrilled bar clamped to guide the drill straight.
You need start off with a sharp prick excactly in the middle and then your small pilot bit won't wander off.

#16 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,825 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 05 August 2010 - 11:19 PM

So, my engine was fine. I was spinning it with a breaker bar on the front pulley clock wise and it turned, counterclockwise and the damn bolt wanted to come off!


You want to be sure to tighten that good before you run the engine again.

And figure out a way to tap out the bolts from the torque converter (without having to remove it from the transmsiion; I am SO NOT dealing with having to realign the cooling pump.)

They're loose. You might be able to cut a slot in each bolt with a dremel and back them out with a flat head screw driver.

#17 Fuzpile

Fuzpile

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 318 posts

Posted 05 August 2010 - 11:51 PM

Things like this are remembered. The broken bit in the broken bolt. The broken carbide bit behind that. Broken ...:lol: easy out. looks like the flywheel was ground out.

#18 kirbykirb

kirbykirb

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • Florida

Posted 06 August 2010 - 09:49 AM

Alright, after playing with the opposedforces catalog. I've discovered the P/N for the bolt

800208580 you'd need four of them (lol)

Which was used throughout the BD/BG series to 99'.

Now, would anyone know if a 31100AA911 Torque Converter will fit me? No idea what my Torque Converter PN is, but I have a TZ101Z2ABA-CH transmission (outback tranny in a GT.)

12332AA052 is the P/N of the subaru Flex Plate (PLATE DRIVE) for 95-98 A/T 2.5L EJ25D engine. AGH.

The problem though is; why does it keep breaking? It broke before 2 years ago... and it broke once again this time. :(. I think the car is just being evil.

Edited by kirbykirb, 06 August 2010 - 10:07 AM.


#19 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,351 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 06 August 2010 - 11:33 AM

Now, would anyone know if a 31100AA911 Torque Converter will fit me? No idea what my Torque Converter PN is, but I have a TZ101Z2ABA-CH transmission (outback tranny in a GT.)

12332AA052 is the P/N of the subaru Flex Plate (PLATE DRIVE) for 95-98 A/T 2.5L EJ25D engine. AGH.

The problem though is; why does it keep breaking? It broke before 2 years ago... and it broke once again this time. :(. I think the car is just being evil.

you need the TC and the flex plate off a 96 - 98, 2.5L engine, outback, GT or LSi. the flex must match the TC. the flax plate will be easy, almost any one who has done a 2.2 swap has one on the wall. the TC may cost you.

did you look here?? www.car-part.com

#20 kirbykirb

kirbykirb

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • Florida

Posted 06 August 2010 - 12:35 PM

you need the TC and the flex plate off a 96 - 98, 2.5L engine, outback, GT or LSi. the flex must match the TC. the flax plate will be easy, almost any one who has done a 2.2 swap has one on the wall. the TC may cost you.

did you look here?? www.car-part.com



I found the flex plate at the dealer 45$ for a new one; may go that route.

As for the torque converter; I found a new one for a newer model 4EAT (B12 Legacies instead of B11) but it is still a 4EAT, and the drawing looks similar so I may decide to get it.

I'm not reusing the flex plate because it has failed exactly like this before in the past :mad: this time the bolts broke, which is wow cause I've heard often that the PLATE will break!

So eh, confusd and stuff. :confused:

#21 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,240 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 06 August 2010 - 12:48 PM

Thanks, harbor freight in the morning. ;)

any idea what size bolts are the ones for the torque converter to the flex plate?


They are M8 x 1.25 like most subaru M8s' but here is the thing........ you need the ones with the short heads. That's probably why the ones on there broke in the first place. Someone probably used ones with too tall a head, and they hit the inside of the casing.

#22 bheinen74

bheinen74

    Banned

  • Banned
  • Pip
  • 0 posts
  • central Iowa

Posted 06 August 2010 - 12:57 PM

this is messed up....
somebody who worked on that subaru, should never touch a subaru ever again and stick to something like bicycles or lawnmowers to work on.

#23 kirbykirb

kirbykirb

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • Florida

Posted 06 August 2010 - 01:03 PM

this is messed up....
somebody who worked on that subaru, should never touch a subaru ever again and stick to something like bicycles or lawnmowers to work on.


Are you referring to me who removed the engine? :(

#24 WoodsWagon

WoodsWagon

    Formerly 91Loyale

  • Members
  • 3,945 posts
  • NH

Posted 06 August 2010 - 01:25 PM

First off, pull the torque converter out of there and get it up on a bench. Getting the TC re-seated into the tranny is not rocket science, you just spin and gently push and feel it index into the next spline, then spin and gently push and feel it click in again, and the next thing you know the T/C is sitting at the right depth in the tranny and it won't go any further in no matter how much you spin and push.

You need the flexplate to match the torque converter. 2.5l TC's are bigger than 2.2l TC's, so the 2.5l flexplate has a shallower dish to it than the 2.2l flexplate.

You can run either a 2.2l or a 2.5l torque converter, I don't belive the transmission interface is any different. Just use the right flexplate with the right converter.

Flexplates crack around the center where they bolt to the crank, this will give a whack whack noise just like bad bearings. So will a loose crank pully beating itself to death on the crank key, and that crank bolt needs to be tight. Put a 1/2" craftsman ratchet on it and beat the ratchet with a 5lb slegehammer against the compression of the motor for a while, that should tighten it enough. If you have the motor out, use an impact gun to tighten it.

With the gouges in the back of the motor, either your flexplate bolts weren't tightened by whoever put them in last, and they backed out until they started hitting and then sheared off, or they were the wrong bolts will too tall of a head. Which then started hitting and sheared off.

#25 kirbykirb

kirbykirb

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • Florida

Posted 06 August 2010 - 01:57 PM

First off, pull the torque converter out of there and get it up on a bench. Getting the TC re-seated into the tranny is not rocket science, you just spin and gently push and feel it index into the next spline, then spin and gently push and feel it click in again, and the next thing you know the T/C is sitting at the right depth in the tranny and it won't go any further in no matter how much you spin and push.

You need the flexplate to match the torque converter. 2.5l TC's are bigger than 2.2l TC's, so the 2.5l flexplate has a shallower dish to it than the 2.2l flexplate.

You can run either a 2.2l or a 2.5l torque converter, I don't belive the transmission interface is any different. Just use the right flexplate with the right converter.

Flexplates crack around the center where they bolt to the crank, this will give a whack whack noise just like bad bearings. So will a loose crank pully beating itself to death on the crank key, and that crank bolt needs to be tight. Put a 1/2" craftsman ratchet on it and beat the ratchet with a 5lb slegehammer against the compression of the motor for a while, that should tighten it enough. If you have the motor out, use an impact gun to tighten it.

With the gouges in the back of the motor, either your flexplate bolts weren't tightened by whoever put them in last, and they backed out until they started hitting and then sheared off, or they were the wrong bolts will too tall of a head. Which then started hitting and sheared off.


But do you think the motor is damaged? I don't believe so, but I'm no expert.

I'm reordering the new bolts from the dealer; I'm not going through this BS once again; ever. Twice the flex plate broke; one time before me and another one when I owned it. :(

I have the EJ22 I may just consider swapping in; because I believe it may be in better condition then the EJ25D, but really I don't know. the EJ25D. I thought it was a bad bearing; I really did with the Ej25, but now that I spot its the Flex plate.. I just don't know what to do. :mad:




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users