95 Lsi Sedan
AT
AWD
170k'ish
Speedo bounces from 0-20mph. Gonna check tomorrow and see if I have a cable or not. Started doing it this summer. Car still seemed to run/drive fine so I didn't think much about it.
AWD quit working. No CEL or AT lights. Did a tail housing pull and grind gooves repair last winter to fix torque bind. Worked great all winter. Did not replace my Duty C.....oops? I thought I noticed something off about the AWD this summer on some gravel hills but I never got stuck or anything so I thought I was just imagining it. Started up my snow and ice driveway last night and had to try 3 times before I made it. I've got really good studded tires. No help at all coming from the rear wheels. Gotta get those babies back in the game.
Duty C? VSS? Bad AT Temp light not telling me something is wrong?
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Guest Message by DevFuse
95 Lego AWD and Speedo Issues
Started by
tforce
, Nov 20 2011 09:41 PM
19 replies to this topic
#2
nipper
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Posted 20 November 2011 - 10:40 PM
VSS's.
There are two. When one fails the other takes over and drives the spedo. Whne one fails AWD is shut down since the car has no way of telling if wheeels are spinning or not. 1995 may or may not have a cable driven spedo as that is a switch year. If it is cable then it would be a bad spedo cable and may still very well be a bad vss sensor also.
There are two. When one fails the other takes over and drives the spedo. Whne one fails AWD is shut down since the car has no way of telling if wheeels are spinning or not. 1995 may or may not have a cable driven spedo as that is a switch year. If it is cable then it would be a bad spedo cable and may still very well be a bad vss sensor also.
#3
tforce
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Posted 20 November 2011 - 10:52 PM
VSS's.
There are two. When one fails the other takes over and drives the spedo. Whne one fails AWD is shut down since the car has no way of telling if wheeels are spinning or not. 1995 may or may not have a cable driven spedo as that is a switch year. If it is cable then it would be a bad spedo cable and may still very well be a bad vss sensor also.
Any good way to tell which one has failed?
#4
nipper
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Posted 20 November 2011 - 11:08 PM
Is there a flashing ATF light? For some reason they do not always throw codes.
Unplug one and drive. If there is no change it is that one, if there is nt its the other.
Another possible scenario is that if it is cable driven the cable drive gear can be stripped and cause the same issues. First look and see if you have a cable or not.
Unplug one and drive. If there is no change it is that one, if there is nt its the other.
Another possible scenario is that if it is cable driven the cable drive gear can be stripped and cause the same issues. First look and see if you have a cable or not.
#5
tforce
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Posted 20 November 2011 - 11:27 PM
Is there a flashing ATF light? For some reason they do not always throw codes.
Unplug one and drive. If there is no change it is that one, if there is nt its the other.
Another possible scenario is that if it is cable driven the cable drive gear can be stripped and cause the same issues. First look and see if you have a cable or not.
No flashing ATF light. I'll check on the cable tomorrow and go from there. Thanks for the quick response Nipper. Too many car issues lately and I really need to focus on the house. It's reassuring that it may be a quick fix.
#6
nipper
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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:07 AM
This usually is.
#7
johnceggleston
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Posted 21 November 2011 - 07:36 AM
usually it is the front one and that is the one that lends it self to be replaced. the rear one does not have an easy disconnect wire like the front.
the hard part is getting the wrench on it. a deep well socket may be your best bet.
the hard part is getting the wrench on it. a deep well socket may be your best bet.
#8
tforce
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Posted 21 November 2011 - 06:59 PM
usually it is the front one and that is the one that lends it self to be replaced. the rear one does not have an easy disconnect wire like the front.
the hard part is getting the wrench on it. a deep well socket may be your best bet.
No speedo cable....yay! I unplugged the front sensor and the speedo didn't work at all. So, I happen to have spare tranny and am going to rob the rear speed sensor from it. If that doesn't fix it I'll be back with more questions. Any tips or cautionary words on replacing the rear sensor?
#9
johnceggleston
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Posted 21 November 2011 - 07:06 PM
Any tips or cautionary words on replacing the rear sensor?
yes 2 tips,
1. there is no wire connector so you will have to splice it.
B. it is not the problem, i have never heard of it failing.
III. don't do it , it is not the problem.
#10
tforce
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Posted 21 November 2011 - 08:11 PM
yes 2 tips,
1. there is no wire connector so you will have to splice it.
B. it is not the problem, i have never heard of it failing.
III. don't do it , it is not the problem.
Ok. You obviously have some experience with this. What do you think it is? Instrument cluster.....bad connections?
#11
johnceggleston
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Posted 21 November 2011 - 08:18 PM
bad front speed sensor.
swap it out.
swap it out.
#12
tforce
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Posted 21 November 2011 - 09:33 PM
Fair enough. I've got one of those on the spare tranny too!
#13
tforce
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Posted 05 December 2011 - 01:57 PM
I can't seem to find the right wrench for pulling the front VSS. Crescent wrench is just going to strip it out. It's not a 17 or a 16mm, not a 5/8ths. 16.5mm maybe? Anyone have any tips on getting this thing out?
#14
tforce
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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:00 PM
Didn't want to start a new thread so I'm hoping someone will pick up on this.
I have swapped out both speed sensors and still have speedo bounce below 20mph.....doesn't tend to happen when the car is cold and first driven. Pan bolts were loose so some fluid had leaked out. Tightened em up, topped off fluid and things seem a little better than before. AWD seems to be decent above 30mph or so but barely there at driveway speeds. Rear left and front right wheels spun when I had the car lifted.
Wandering where to go next. TCU, ECU, gauge cluster, pressure test the line to the tail housing? Just say screw it and put in a cheap tranny that I know is good?
I have swapped out both speed sensors and still have speedo bounce below 20mph.....doesn't tend to happen when the car is cold and first driven. Pan bolts were loose so some fluid had leaked out. Tightened em up, topped off fluid and things seem a little better than before. AWD seems to be decent above 30mph or so but barely there at driveway speeds. Rear left and front right wheels spun when I had the car lifted.
Wandering where to go next. TCU, ECU, gauge cluster, pressure test the line to the tail housing? Just say screw it and put in a cheap tranny that I know is good?
#15
johnceggleston
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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:18 PM
auto or manual?
were the replacement parts new or used? known good? or suspected to be good?
have you pulled the instrument cluster and checked the screws on the back side of the speedo to see if they are loose?
were the replacement parts new or used? known good? or suspected to be good?
have you pulled the instrument cluster and checked the screws on the back side of the speedo to see if they are loose?
Edited by johnceggleston, 18 December 2012 - 05:21 PM.
#16
WoodsWagon
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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:10 PM
The front VSS feeds directly to the speedometer gauge in the cluster. The speedo gauge then translates that signal and sends it on to the engine's computer and the transmissions computer (ECU and TCU). The problem is in the speedo sensor to instrument cluster part of the system. The AWD isn't working right because the TCU is getting a bad signal from the speedometer gauge in the cluster.
The rear VSS has nothing to do with the speedo, it only talks to the TCU and the TCU uses it's data internally to run the AWD. It is not used as a backup sensor to run the speedometer. The TCU compares the signal coming from the speedo gauge to the rear VSS to figure out how much slippage is happening.
Loose screws that hold the speedo gauge into the cluster and also form the connection to the printed circuit board on the back are a common problem and easy to check. The speedo's themselves do fail sometimes, but it's much more rare in the 95-98's vs the 99's.
The other thing to check would be the speedo sensor drive gear. You take the sensor out and put a flathead screwdriver down in and try to very gently turn the shaft. It's a plastic gear and if it wears out it can start skipping on the drive gear inside the differential housing. If you can turn that shaft without the wheels moving the gear is done. Unfortunately that means pulling the transmission and separating the front diff housing off it to get at it. Hope that this isn't your problem and check the gauge cluster first.
The rear VSS has nothing to do with the speedo, it only talks to the TCU and the TCU uses it's data internally to run the AWD. It is not used as a backup sensor to run the speedometer. The TCU compares the signal coming from the speedo gauge to the rear VSS to figure out how much slippage is happening.
Loose screws that hold the speedo gauge into the cluster and also form the connection to the printed circuit board on the back are a common problem and easy to check. The speedo's themselves do fail sometimes, but it's much more rare in the 95-98's vs the 99's.
The other thing to check would be the speedo sensor drive gear. You take the sensor out and put a flathead screwdriver down in and try to very gently turn the shaft. It's a plastic gear and if it wears out it can start skipping on the drive gear inside the differential housing. If you can turn that shaft without the wheels moving the gear is done. Unfortunately that means pulling the transmission and separating the front diff housing off it to get at it. Hope that this isn't your problem and check the gauge cluster first.
#17
tforce
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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:06 PM
Auto. Parts are from the old tranny and worked fine before it was pulled. Haven't checked the gauge cluster but will do that next. Thanks for explaination on the speedometer system Woods.
#18
tforce
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Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:46 PM
Gauge cluster was fine. No loose screws. VSS isn't stripped. I'm assuming I need to replace the speedo....is there anyway to test it to make sure it's bad?
#19
WoodsWagon
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Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:58 PM
Buy a cluster from a you-pull-it junkyard for $20 and plug it in.
#20
tforce
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Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:53 PM
Buy a cluster from a you-pull-it junkyard for $20 and plug it in.
I would love to know where you get them for $20. Most of the local yards wanted $70+ to bring them in from another yard cuz they didn't have anything out back. I finally found a lot that had one left (out of 5 or 6 cars) for $35. Front end wreak so it wasn't in the dash anymore and the bezel was hosed.....don't know how long the thing was exposed to the weather.....and they still wanted the full $35. Luckily it still works. No more speedo bounce and the AWD seems to be working. Waiting for one last snow storm to really test it out. Thanks again for the help.
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