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94 Loyale dead in the water


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17 replies to this topic

#1 Beatnic

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 11:24 PM

Hi - 94 Sub Loyale 4wd 270000
Love this Sub but she no go. Hope someone on here is conversant with these old girls. Found a old thread so will try and follow their trouble list.

Have had a coolant spray leak so fixed the hole but coolant went everywhere- ran ok to town slushy roads 20 miles then would not start.
Wonder if its shorting a connection - this machine is new to me - there has been a newer engine added so connection wires hanging everywhere some cut but prob from snazzey driving lights that were on it before I picked it up. I recently pulled plugs- they look good very light tan color but maybe I disturbed a connection winding them out and in?
Towed home and checked fuel pump- opened hoses- works, and pushed fuel through filter. Checked fuses OK. Has a original Coil and 12v r to the two connections on side. The distributor is all elec I think- no vac hoses- I will post a picture. The fuse links look ok. I think its fuel injection with timing module in distributor. But at this point I am flummexed . My manual runs from the 80's to 94 so trying figure out which wire test module chapter refers to my machine is my next chore.
I dried out the interior dist cap and added stronger battery- turns over but no bang
Recently swapped a good coil off old v8 but no spark- how much should the fuel pump pump? I loosend a filter line and it more than dribbles out- should it spray? thanx all
Going to chk in am if rotor loose , how to check if spark coming off center line from coil? Just myself to start and monitor
Appreciate feedback and will try n post pics. Have a nice Xmas and New Year!

#2 presslab

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:18 AM

No spark you say? Have someone crank the engine with the disty cap off and make sure the rotor spins. If the pass side timing belt breaks it won't spin and the engine won't even try to run.

#3 Beatnic

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:29 PM

Hi Presslab
Thanks for your interest.
Cranked it and the rotor moves . At one point I put a timing light onto the coil center but didnt get a flash but might have missed it - I am going to connect to spark lead to confirm if I can see spark from drivers seat- I will get back on that- warming up w a cuppah tea
Could the fuel pump be weak? it just sorta dribbled gas through filter when i tested it- it whirrs and does pump but I am not sure how vigorous it should be,
I did read on a google search that white and green test connectors at wiper motor should not be connected except for testing- they WERE connected- if they are the testing connectors- I DISCONNECTED THEM
The fuses seem ok but there are open hanging connectors above the clutch- I was thinking I might have dislodged one with my big snow boots
later
:horse: ha ha love the icon but it should be a mule as I had that problem once- the mule won
b



No spark you say? Have someone crank the engine with the disty cap off and make sure the rotor spins. If the pass side timing belt breaks it won't spin and the engine won't even try to run.



#4 Beatnic

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:52 PM

So I just tested if spark at plugs - Nein. Bummer
Maybe the coil is no good-there is power to the coil. I tried a sub coil form an old v8 that works but no spark either an they both read about the same ohms.
mmmph:(

gotta find a subaru fan around here in Nelson mybe borrow a for sure good coil
going to look at t wiring next and try n figure out schematics and / or testing procedures
The machine had a different motor dropped in sloppily w loose bolts etc- not sure what type
later n thnx for lookng

#5 scoobiedubie

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:09 PM

Try installing a distributor off of a working vehicle.

#6 presslab

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:51 PM

Does the check engine light come on with the key in the run position? If not maybe you have a bad ignition relay. You'll still get power to the coil if this is bad.

There is an ignitor on the coil bracket that can fail. And there is a ground connection there that could be bad as well.

#7 scoobiedubie

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:27 PM

Reinstall your original subaru distributor. Try replacing the main wire between the coil and the distributor. Try replacing the distributor cap and rotor. A cracked cap will keep the engine from starting. Subarus have special coils so exchanging with one off of a V8 is probably a bad idea. If the capacitor that is attached to the coils on the 85 & 86's Subarus goes out, the engine won't start. Your capacitor may be part of the coil or hidden somewhere else. Find it and replace it, especially if the radio was getting a lot of static, just before the engine failed. The fusible link box sits in front of the coolant overflow bottle. The black fuse wire in that box gets brittle and breaks. That will also keep the engine from starting.

Edited by scoobiedubie, 28 December 2012 - 12:29 PM.


#8 Beatnic

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 03:34 PM

Hi - Thanks everyone.
Have no spare working dist. Dist rotor turns. Engine light is always on. The test green and white connectors were connected since spring purchase -I disconnected today
BUT Coil is reading weird ohms , on 20k setting the primary [ two side terminals] is .00 and secondary is 9.29
is that more than a hint? I am hoping its just the coil then
There is an module under the coil- checked connections and ground nearby as well
thanks again for your feedback I am afraid to go back and review the posts as I may lose this letter

b

#9 Beatnic

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:30 PM

update-- went to auto store in town and checkd ohms on new one. Its the same as my suspect one, that is, it read .00ohm on the primary and 9.20 sec but book say .78-.81. on primary ?? $100 local new
stumpd - maybe coil is good
got a spare used coil I borrowed so going t install and try in the am it has same readings as new [ .00 and 9. 6 ] one and suspect one grrr:cool:

#10 Beatnic

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 03:08 PM

Update- coil reads ok ohms [I had it on wrong 20k instead of 200k range]
Removed pass side belt cover- not broken and
the drivers side belt must be ok as the oil light goes off after turning over few ties
.....but maybe they have slipped
Not sure how to test the ignitor under the coil but will check ground there
I suspect the fuel pump or filter might be the problem not sure how ascertain if enough pressure evident- just hooked a drain hose off filter and the pump does move gas but drizzle is the amount- is that normal?
If filter is no good [ looks old] would it pass fuel as it is doing?
I could time how long to fill a liter I guess
I am going to next check the fuel pump ground at the rear and connections as soon as I warm up- its winter here and I am outside
What I am not sure of is: why is there no spark ? If pump is malfunctioning would the computer shut down spark some how?
thanks for response

Edited by Beatnic, 30 December 2012 - 04:22 PM.
rethought


#11 NorthWet

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:56 AM

Distributor is driven off the US/CAN Driver's-side ("left") belt, same as oil pump. Physically check that the rotor is still keyed to the distributor shaft by its screw by grabbing the rotor and trying to gently turn it.

'94 "should" have single-point fuel injection (SPFI), and the pump should put out a very vigorous flow (50-100L/hr?) at up to 60psi. HOWEVER, the pump will only run for about 5 seconds when you turn the key to "on" (run). It then waits until it gets a signal generated by your distributor telling it that the engine is rotating. No signal, no pump. Other things can disable pump, but this particular item can be bypassed by reconnecting those green diagnostic connectors: The pump should then cycle on and off every few seconds.

You should be able to validate the coil by ensuring plus side has voltage, and using a stand-alone wire on the ground side to touch ground and see if spark results from the coil HT lead.

Start by ensuring it has spark before worrying about fuel.

#12 Beatnic

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:31 AM

Hi - Thanks for your reply.
The dist rotor is solid on its shaft- will not shift a bit and does turn when engine turns over. Most yankee dist shift on a spring- not this.
Pump runs for about 5 secs but NOT off and on when green connectors connected.
The coil plus side when 12 v test light connected flashes as rotor is spinning but no spark at plugs when pulled to test.
?? I am wondering if pump has low pressure will the computer shut down the spark procedure?Is thoriginal pump eternal near r wheel and rusty base but coonectors look secure - am going to check the hoses tommorrow if cracked or leaking and the ohm on the pump if I can . They are saying we are getting anther dump of snow tonight
I have found several cut and 3 broken cluster wires near battery which may be result of old owner slapping a different engine in AND maybe me breaking a wire while pulling plugs to check their condition 20 K before it died. I also found an open vacuum hose just above the thermo which I think was disturbed when I tightened the weeping thermo joint at same time as plug action.
I found a cluster of light weight broken wires that go into the fender harness and two are white and one black. On the nearby positive battery terminal is a cut heavy wire and under the battery i found about 10 in of loose light white wire which has disappeared in my initial poke about. The neg term has a 3 in section of cut heavy black wire but I think it has been replaced wiith a ground wire to fr frame.
We have mega snow her and I am trying to figure this out- out doors.

Distributor is driven off the US/CAN Driver's-side ("left") belt, same as oil pump. Physically check that the rotor is still keyed to the distributor shaft by its screw by grabbing the rotor and trying to gently turn it.

'94 "should" have single-point fuel injection (SPFI), and the pump should put out a very vigorous flow (50-100L/hr?) at up to 60psi. HOWEVER, the pump will only run for about 5 seconds when you turn the key to "on" (run). It then waits until it gets a signal generated by your distributor telling it that the engine is rotating. No signal, no pump. Other things can disable pump, but this particular item can be bypassed by reconnecting those green diagnostic connectors: The pump should then cycle on and off every few seconds.

You should be able to validate the coil by ensuring plus side has voltage, and using a stand-alone wire on the ground side to touch ground and see if spark results from the coil HT lead.

Start by ensuring it has spark before worrying about fuel.



#13 Beatnic

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:18 PM

back at it again , tried cougars tip of testing the neg side of couil for light pulse but no joy so will try f different coil in am

thnx all



#14 86 Wonder Wedge

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 11:16 AM

I'd see if the ECM is picking up any problems (like no crank signal).

 

Pull the cover from under the steering column and look for the hole on the side of the ECM (gray, square box, about 40cm wide). It will have a small, red LED.

 

Turn the key to the RUN position and watch that light. Record the flashes. A "long" flash is the 10s and the "short" flash (more like a blink) is the 1s.

 

If there is a fault with the CAS, the ECM will pick it up when trying to start.


Edited by 86 Wonder Wedge, 07 November 2013 - 11:17 AM.


#15 ferp420

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 09:48 AM

have you tryed hot wireing it to eliminate a igintion problem + wire from battery to + side of coil if nothing else it will narow down the problem down to coil.dissy and condenser if it starts its electrical and could be bypassed easy and cheap till the problem can be found and repaired

#16 ruparts

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 10:18 AM

hi,

  read through your posts here,  i am thinking it is that coil bracket transistor,  the electrical piece made onto the coil bracket..  i had a 94 that gave me all the same symptoms that you describe, had voltage at coil , everything, but no start, swapped that part and it was instant relief. 

  as far as fuel goes it should produce " more" than a trickle from the output of the underhood filter, the filters can be restricted some,  and the tank inlet screen can get restricted too.  but it was running so i think that is a secondary issue.   i would try that coil bracket piece.

 



#17 MilesFox

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 10:20 AM

have you tryed hot wireing it to eliminate a igintion problem + wire from battery to + side of coil if nothing else it will narow down the problem down to coil.dissy and condenser if it starts its electrical and could be bypassed easy and cheap till the problem can be found and repaired

Do this



#18 Gloyale

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:22 PM

You say different engine and mention wires that sound like the old Disty wires.

 

So clarify for us

 

What year and model, and is the enigine in it Carbed or Fuel injected.

 

Could be a carbed engine in an originally SPFI car which would mean alot for trying to troubleshoot.






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