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#26 MilesFox

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 01:33 PM

There is nothing wrong with this person. My sister recently sold my son (for much less than the value) a 2006 Impreza with 101,000 miles. I'm not complaining about the deal my sister gave him but......... within 10,000 he had to have timing chain, etc., changed at the tune of just shy of $2000. I was told that this is "usual wear" and expected. "Almost all have this done at around this mileage." What a crock. How can you claim how durable a car a Subaru is when every 100,000 you have to spend $2000 for "usual wear." I had the pleasure (unpleasure) of driving it for a few hundred miles this week and, although it is a snappy little car and handles well they are way over-rated. Cheap, poor heater, tiny seats, and not as good a all-wheel drive system as I expected. In addition, poor gas mileage for a car this small. Why people are spending good money on these when they could buy a bigger more efficient car for the same money. He should have kept his beat up old Taurus with 190,000 miles. I did have to put brakes and a front wheel bearing on it over the 3 years he had it for a cost of less than $400.  Your assumptions on German cars is correct but a Subaru is just as expensive to fix. Take the money you are going to spend on your next Subby and buy a used Cadillac CTS4, all wheel drive. Better mileage, better all-wheel drive, better performance and much more comfort.

This is why you buy a higher mile car. One, it costs less, two, major service has been done already. 

Comparing a ford taurus to a subaru is like apples to oranges. So you can get 190,000 miles out of the taurus, but you don't get 4wd. Rather owning a taurus vs a subaru is rather unappreciating (my opinion) . the subaru is much easier to work on, which is ideal for those who do their own maintenance, andhae basic tools. The subaru costs so much to hire work on because all of the mechanics only know how to work on ford tauruses, and go at working on all wron



#27 hohieu

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:00 PM

 it would have cost $59 if you had done the labor for the timing belt and taken less time than the brakes and wheel bearing on the Taurus.

As easy as it might be on a Subaru, many people are afraid to touch cam timing.  Wheel bearings and brakes while tedious, especially if you live in the rust belt, is more crude work.

 

The design life of core components in a car should be at least 10 years/100K miles.  I've had good luck w/ Fords and Subarus.  German cars since the mid-90s seem to be the biggest hoaxes in the industry. 



#28 scoot24

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:00 PM

Your sister got ripped off by a shop/mechanic.  I would literally come do that repair in her driveway for $1,000, like tomorrow, gladly.  It would cost me $59 in parts so i'd still be making $900.

 

Timing belts have been common since the 1980's and it's in the owners manual - every 105,000 miles or 10 years for that vehicle.

Older vehicles had lower grade belts and they were every 60,000 miles.

 

The timing belt costs $59 from Subaru and takes less than an hour to replace.

Subaru charges $450 - $699 depending on local market.

Indepedents can charge less than that.

 

Sister is paying high labor costs and/or lots of additional parts.

She got it done at a Subaru dealer after getting quotes from 2. I have a local guy that could have done it also but she's 4 hours away and needed it done. This brings up another issue. Dealers...rip of and their are not many that will work on these. If it is common for all timing belts to go at 100,000 then maybe they should build them like real engines and use a chain that lasts, at least twice as long. And by the way, the brakes and bearings was on the Taurus. That's is on that car over about 80,000 miles. and a V-6 that gets 28-30 MPH.



#29 MilesFox

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:01 PM

Subaru is now making engines with gear driven timing.



#30 987687

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:03 PM

I thought the FB was a chain.



#31 scoot24

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:03 PM

This is why you buy a higher mile car. One, it costs less, two, major service has been done already. 

Comparing a ford taurus to a subaru is like apples to oranges. So you can get 190,000 miles out of the taurus, but you don't get 4wd. Rather owning a taurus vs a subaru is rather unappreciating (my opinion) . the subaru is much easier to work on, which is ideal for those who do their own maintenance, andhae basic tools. The subaru costs so much to hire work on because all of the mechanics only know how to work on ford tauruses, and go at working on all wron

I do all of my own work on my American cars, but won't tackle this car. It is definitely not the easiest car to work on.



#32 987687

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:06 PM

What? Really? I can't think of anything on the subaru that's very hard to work on. Sure it's not a SBC, but go work on any american car with a sideways engine. I'd rather work on a subaru any day.

When I worked in the shop, I was always glad to have a subaru in my bay over pretty much anything else.



#33 MilesFox

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:08 PM

I beg to differ. I had to change a serpentine belt on a taurus once. not fun. Belts on the soob is too easy, everything is up front and on top. Laying under a car with no ground clearance to access a part that is under the motor is not my cup of tea. To each his own preferences. I am not fond of any transverse FWD regardless of platform. This is why i favor the subaru. I'll give the ford taurus credit for having an independent rear suspension.Much better than GM 3 link solid beam (which makes me seasick riding in the back of some pontiac with no room for my feet behind the driver.)



#34 987687

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:11 PM

I beg to differ. I had to change a serpentine belt on a taurus once. not fun. Belts on the soob is too easy, everything is up front and on top. Laying under a car with no ground clearance to access a part that is under the motor is not my cup of tea. To each his own preferences. I am not fond of any transverse FWD regardless of platform. This is why i favor the subaru. I'll give the ford taurus credit for having an independent rear suspension.Much better than GM 3 link solid beam (which makes me seasick riding in the back of some pontiac with no room for my feet behind the driver.)

 

Doing anything on those cars suck. The balljoints pressed into the aluminum control arms? The inner tie rod ends that always fail? Whenever I saw one of those things roll in I wanted to just quit on the spot. Also LOL heater cores....



#35 avk

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:11 PM

The only "crock" here is that you failed to make yourself familiar with the maintenance schedule prior to buying, and that, as others said, allowed the dealer to extract from you the proverbial boat payment. Nothing unexpected really took place. The seats, for example, did not suddenly shrink in size after you handed over the money. As to AWD being not as good as expected, what were the expectations? Lastly, there's nothing in your post to support the specific assertions made by the OP, contrary to the opening sentence.

There is nothing wrong with this person. My sister recently sold my son (for much less than the value) a 2006 Impreza with 101,000 miles. I'm not complaining about the deal my sister gave him but......... within 10,000 he had to have timing chain, etc., changed at the tune of just shy of $2000. I was told that this is "usual wear" and expected. "Almost all have this done at around this mileage." What a crock. How can you claim how durable a car a Subaru is when every 100,000 you have to spend $2000 for "usual wear." I had the pleasure (unpleasure) of driving it for a few hundred miles this week and, although it is a snappy little car and handles well they are way over-rated. Cheap, poor heater, tiny seats, and not as good a all-wheel drive system as I expected. In addition, poor gas mileage for a car this small. Why people are spending good money on these when they could buy a bigger more efficient car for the same money. He should have kept his beat up old Taurus with 190,000 miles. I did have to put brakes and a front wheel bearing on it over the 3 years he had it for a cost of less than $400.  Your assumptions on German cars is correct but a Subaru is just as expensive to fix. Take the money you are going to spend on your next Subby and buy a used Cadillac CTS4, all wheel drive. Better mileage, better all-wheel drive, better performance and much more comfort.



#36 scoot24

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:14 PM

Stopping power in the snow is all about the tires.  If you left the standard Michelins (not excactly cheap) on there and expected them to give you good stopping in snow that's you''re fault for not putting winter tires on what is by your own description the "winter" car.

 

 

 

And to address the comparison to Mercedes C class and Caddillac CTS4.....that's just rediculous.  You think your gonna have less trouble or maintenence cost with those vehichles?

 

I think that the fact that Mercedes and Cadillac are the only cars you can even find to compare speaks to how good a subaru actually is. Subarus were like the Kia of the 70's, and now we are putting them up against 2 of the most premier makers of autos in the world?  And then asking it to be better than those cars, which it arguably is in some ways.  It's not a apples to apples comparison but sure, I'll take it.

 

Subaru will take more abuse and cost less over the long run 250k+ miles.... VS. either of those cars and when those cars do need work the parts will be expensive, and for the Cadillac espescially will be hard to find and then the labor cost of working on either of those complicated crammed in engines is ridiculous.

 

The subaru almost anyone with some mechanical knowledge and a few tools could do almost any of the maintence required.  Parts are cheap and available commonly sold at any parts store not ordered from Germany or special order from 12 different options with the Caddy, get the wrong parts.....cheap GM crap with fancy chrome anyway.

 

 

And for metal thickness, Convertibles have more reinforcement in unibody because of the lack of a roof arch.  Also I doubt anything except external sheet was measured get a cross section of the B pillar you will see subaru strength.  Fire depts had to invest in more powerful "jaws of life" and teach special training on how to cut Subaru pillars becuase they are so strong more than most other makes and older cars.

I wasn't trying to compare apples to apples. I agree they are not even in the same category. It's comparing a upscale performance sedan to a tinny econo-car. My point was that if you're going to spend the kind f money for a Subaru you might just as well take the same money and buy a 2 year old Caddy with low miles. Decision: Nicer ride, better mileage, better performance vs. Cramped quarters, average mileage, adequate performance all for the same money. I'll give you the slightly higher repair costs on the Caddy but your gas savings will pay for it. 



#37 scoot24

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:22 PM

The only "crock" here is that you failed to make yourself familiar with the maintenance schedule prior to buying, and that, as others said, allowed the dealer to extract from you the proverbial boat payment. Nothing unexpected really took place. The seats, for example, did not suddenly shrink in size after you handed over the money. As to AWD being not as good as expected, what were the expectations? Lastly, there's nothing in your post to support the specific assertions made by the OP, contrary to the opening sentence.

My point is that I agreed with them. Subarus are not all they are claimed to be. I don't drive the car and would not have let my son buy it except for the fact that he paid almost nothing. He likes it which is the good thing. If he had to pay more I would have steered him in a different direction. As for maintenance, she followed the dealers schedule and had them do all of the work including oil changes. The only reason she got more than one quote for the TB is because she thought the price was high. The second was as bad so if you're saying that she got ripped off then I guess that's a Subaru dealer trait.



#38 scoot24

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:24 PM

I beg to differ. I had to change a serpentine belt on a taurus once. not fun. Belts on the soob is too easy, everything is up front and on top. Laying under a car with no ground clearance to access a part that is under the motor is not my cup of tea. To each his own preferences. I am not fond of any transverse FWD regardless of platform. This is why i favor the subaru. I'll give the ford taurus credit for having an independent rear suspension.Much better than GM 3 link solid beam (which makes me seasick riding in the back of some pontiac with no room for my feet behind the driver.)

Really? I helped my neighbors son change his, along with the idler pulley, and it took us less than an hour including clean up and test ride.



#39 grossgary

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:31 PM

all vehicles have a good place and fit for various people, to that end we are all right even if our oppinions differ.  i tell family members to keep buying Fords even though I don't like them, they're a good fit for them.  in my opinion - on a large scale with large sample sizes (not just 5 examples which is anecdotal to me) - a Ford car or exploder (i like their trucks) is not a good 250,000 mile vehicle. but not everyone needs to view and buy like i do.

 

i'm not sure there's much to discuss, are you likely to start disliking Ford cars and exploders as much as I do? 

should I try? 

would you like me to list all the reasons why I think Ford vehicles are a bad fit for me?

 

probably not.

 

in the same way, arguing Subaru's (or any others) issues here i'm not sure holds much value for anyone.



#40 scoot24

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:59 PM

all vehicles have a good place and fit for various people, to that end we are all right even if our oppinions differ.  i tell family members to keep buying Fords even though I don't like them, they're a good fit for them.  in my opinion - on a large scale with large sample sizes (not just 5 examples which is anecdotal to me) - a Ford car or exploder (i like their trucks) is not a good 250,000 mile vehicle. but not everyone needs to view and buy like i do.

 

i'm not sure there's much to discuss, are you likely to start disliking Ford cars and exploders as much as I do? 

should I try? 

would you like me to list all the reasons why I think Ford vehicles are a bad fit for me?

 

probably not.

 

in the same way, arguing Subaru's (or any others) issues here i'm not sure holds much value for anyone.

Agreed. It's just fun to debate. You can learn a lot form others opinions and facts that they have. BTW, I'm not real fond of Fords either. My son just had good luck with his.



#41 1-3-2-4

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 03:01 PM

Only reason I stopped and got somewhat stuck was because of a snow bank and cross traffic

 

General arctic's winter tires

 



#42 MilesFox

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 03:06 PM

Really? I helped my neighbors son change his, along with the idler pulley, and it took us less than an hour including clean up and test ride.

I can change both belts on a subaru motor within 10 minutes. Given that hour, i would be mostly done with the timing belt as well.



#43 MilesFox

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 03:08 PM

If you want to post about how a subaru is not up to par, please take the time to register and give your first post at a ford or cadillac forum. 



#44 Gloyale

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 03:12 PM

My point is that I agreed with them. Subarus are not all they are
claimed to be. I don't drive the car and would not have let my son buy
it except for the fact that he paid almost nothing. He likes it which is
the good thing. If he had to pay more I would have steered him in a
different direction. As for maintenance, she followed the dealers
schedule and had them do all of the work including oil changes. The only
reason she got more than one quote for the TB is because she thought
the price was high. The second was as bad so if you're saying that she
got ripped off then I guess that's a Subaru dealer trait.

 

Firstly, they must have changed allot more than Timing belt.

Probably sealed cams, replaced idlers and water pump, sealed crank and should have done vavle adjustment and valve covers during the same time service.  That's all part of the 105k service.

 

 

Secondly,

 

You live in New York state.

 

That's the most expensive market for auto repair in the country becuase state of New York has TONS of regulation and fees to run a Mechanics shop.  Very high overhead for those in business.

 

Considering both of those things, $2000 is not too crazy........if they did more than "just the timing belt"

 

 

Thirdly

 

A 2009 Cadillac CTS 4 bluebooks WELL over 30k dollars.  Not many people selling them either.  Even fewer places to get them worked on. And that's used.....with 50-60k miles of someone elses abuse.

 

For 30k, buying a BRAND new subaru with a warranty, no miles, and a far simpler and more reliable engine setup........not to mention the difference in insurance premium.......it not even fair.  Subaru is a way more economical vehichle.



#45 avk

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 03:23 PM

My point is that I agreed with them.

That makes two of you. Welcome to the forum, hope you both will stay and contribute.


Edited by avk, 19 December 2013 - 10:01 PM.


#46 scoot24

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 03:36 PM

Firstly, they must have changed allot more than Timing belt.

Probably sealed cams, replaced idlers and water pump, sealed crank and should have done vavle adjustment and valve covers during the same time service.  That's all part of the 105k service.

 

 

Secondly,

 

You live in New York state.

 

That's the most expensive market for auto repair in the country becuase state of New York has TONS of regulation and fees to run a Mechanics shop.  Very high overhead for those in business.

 

Considering both of those things, $2000 is not too crazy........if they did more than "just the timing belt"

 

 

Thirdly

 

A 2009 Cadillac CTS 4 bluebooks WELL over 30k dollars.  Not many people selling them either.  Even fewer places to get them worked on. And that's used.....with 50-60k miles of someone elses abuse.

 

For 30k, buying a BRAND new subaru with a warranty, no miles, and a far simpler and more reliable engine setup........not to mention the difference in insurance premium.......it not even fair.  Subaru is a way more economical vehichle.

They did do the full work-up on the engine while they were in. She knew that going in. The additional labor and parts were minimal to do everything. As for the Cadillac. I disagree with the higher repair cost. There will be no need to get into the engine at 105,000 miles. You are also misinformed on the prices. Just went onto Auto Trader and searched for 2009 and newer, AWD, 50,000 or less miles. 17 came up within 300 miles of me ranging from $16,000-$19,000. A good deal considering what you get. I challenge you to take one for a ride. I have a 2006 that now has 122,000 and have spent less then $800 excluding oil changes. My insurance, with collision is $68 a year more than the Impreza 



#47 scoot24

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 03:39 PM

If you want to post about how a subaru is not up to par, please take the time to register and give your first post at a ford or cadillac forum. 

I do belong to other make forums. Their cars are not perfect for sure. It's just my opinion that there are much better cars available for the money you pay for a Subaru.



#48 avk

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 04:39 PM

But didn't you say you paid very little?

I do belong to other make forums. Their cars are not perfect for sure. It's just my opinion that there are much better cars available for the money you pay for a Subaru.



#49 scoot24

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:07 AM

But didn't you say you paid very little?

I did. That was my point all along. The NADA book on the car is $8150 retail and $5925 trade-in and she paid his aunt $2000. This made it worth the money. There is no way I would have let him buy it at even the $5925. A much better car could be bought for that money. We'll see how it goes. If all he gets sick of it he can sell it and make a little to buy a bigger, safer, less expensive upkeep, car that get better mileage. My other son drives a Buick LaCross FWD car that is actually better in snow and gets 30MPG. The Subaru is so short that the rear always wants to come around even with Blizzak snow tires. It's so light. 



#50 avk

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 12:09 PM

So you got a really good deal on that Subaru, but came here to complain. How odd. As to LaCrosse being better in the snow, there are two reasons one can think of as to why you may feel that way: [1] it has traction control and [2] you don't know how to drive. Of course, both [1] and [2] have to be present simultaneously.

I did. That was my point all along. The NADA book on the car is $8150 retail and $5925 trade-in and she paid his aunt $2000. This made it worth the money. There is no way I would have let him buy it at even the $5925. A much better car could be bought for that money. We'll see how it goes. If all he gets sick of it he can sell it and make a little to buy a bigger, safer, less expensive upkeep, car that get better mileage. My other son drives a Buick LaCross FWD car that is actually better in snow and gets 30MPG. The Subaru is so short that the rear always wants to come around even with Blizzak snow tires. It's so light. 


Edited by avk, 20 December 2013 - 12:11 PM.





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