matt167 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 1997-1998 EJ22E have a different piston crown, where if your feeling ambitious or need to change pistons anyway, you could use an Ej22E piston from say a 1996 and have non interference. On anything phase 2 though, it's the cylinder head itself.. Ej20 head on an EJ22 block is namely WRX guys just putting together cheap engines when their EJ205 spins bearings and eats itself. This a whole different subject.. But still, interference heads, you can't change that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 i see. scratch that idea, then... been seeing a lot of foresters up close lately. two even just saturday with the pan' roofs. one was parked in front of where i work wherein i could take a really good look at it. yep....still really prefer the 1st gen body style foremost. however, if an '03-'05 does pop up clicking all the other boxes to my liking, i'll go with it. as well, hopes for swapping in my 22, or having an N/I motor at all, have waned substantially considering all factors involved (some not discussed here). needless to say, anything prior to '01 is totally off the board. but, i am still gonna have my 5spd, dang it...haha! as for a motor, i'm a lot more comfortable with the idea of a sohc 2.5L, now. until digging deeply into this, i had not realized the hg issue was an external leak vs the internal leakage of the dohc. i'd only heard stories. and, since the updated hg's appear to fix that, a non-issue it is. having said that, the ej20 does appear to get better gas mileage. (yay? nay?) i'll look more into it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 like i said before - i have an '02 - EJ251 that has had the head gaskets replaced... no issues with running at all. otherwise it is bone stock. It does suffer from a bit of piston slap when it is cold out (actually sounds like hell till it warms up, lol) but otherwise it runs great. just estimating here as I have not been keeping real good track of things, but since getting all of my brakes updated and operating properly, I believe I am getting around 27-28mpg average with the 4spd auto... I live in the country and drive 18 miles to work on surface roads (no freeways) - speed limits from 55 to 25mph (more 55 than anything else) mileage will depend a lot on your driving style - do you drive like a grandpa or like Mario Andretti - and where you drive - mostly flat will do better than lots of steep grades... I tend to be kind of in the middle of both... not a grandma, but not Mario either.. LOL, and the terrain here is rolling hills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 i'm in the middle myself with regards to driving. and, of course, mileage depends largely on where and how you drive. but, i figure there's likely to be a solid comparative between the engines. sometimes with engines, though, it just doesn't matter how you drive.... you're not gonna get great mileage. so, i ask. if i wind up with an ej25 i'd be happy with 27/28mpg or close your regular driving sounds much like mine; living in the country and most miles on the highway getting to a city. i do live in arkansas, so some areas are just a lot of hills. in fact, my house/land is right on the side of a mountain. i can get up top of my house and see clear through the valleys and foothills of the boston mtns more south of me....though my driving does tend to go north where it levels out more. and, geez.... i avoid the interstate if at all possible! people drive too fast and too close. a lot of accelerator with a lot of risk so, this piston slap.....i'll read up on it, but since it's apparently an inherent issue, is it leading towards any premature rebuilds with owners at all? or is it just one of those quirks like the 3vze that has noisy injectors or the 22re with a noisy valvetrain; lots of noise, but no appreciable detriment? see, at this point, i'm figuring when i get a forester, with the right build, it can serve as a back up if/when my 4runner is down and i still need to pull my trailer. either the ej20 or 25 would be as strong or stronger than the V6 in it. just wouldn't tow with the forester unless i had to since it doesn't have a solid axle and is a good deal lighter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 My 2001 5spd Forester got 25 MPG no matter how I drove. The EJ251 was well worn, smoked cold pretty bad but it still ran good enough.. Piston slap was bad enough you would think it was going to fly apart, but once it got some heat in the cylinders it was dead quiet. An EJ20 you can get around probably near the same Mpg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 nearly the same? haha...okay, so mileage is on par hey.....i'm having a real hard time finding 1st gen's with sunroof and 5spd. was that even an option? or did the sunroof models all come with 4eats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 nearly the same? haha...okay, so mileage is on par hey.....i'm having a real hard time finding 1st gen's with sunroof and 5spd. was that even an option? or did the sunroof models all come with 4eats? doubtful it was transmission dependent. The 5spd is just a hard find on itself.. If you were really ambitious though, you can replace a Subaru roof skin with a sunroof skin not that easy but doable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) while I do miss the sun/moon roof (the '90 Lego had one), it is not a deal breaker for me. the earlier models did not have the big panoramic sunroof like they do now, if that is what you are looking for... and to be honest, now that I think about it, I have not seen too many earlier Foresters with a sunroof. the piston slap, while it sounds terrible, is pretty benign... it is not an indicator of needing a rebuild. it is caused by the short skirted pistons (weight savings) wobbling just a little in the cold cylinders until things warm up enough to remove any excess play (heat = expansion, and all that) during the summer months, it is pretty much unnoticed - this is more of a cold weather + cold engine thing. the colder it is outside, the worse it sounds on cold start up. If the engine is quiet when at full operating temp, no worries. If it still rattles at full operating temp, then there are issues to be concerned about. Edited September 6, 2017 by heartless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golucky66 Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 doubtful it was transmission dependent. The 5spd is just a hard find on itself.. If you were really ambitious though, you can replace a Subaru roof skin with a sunroof skin not that easy but doable At that point. Itd be easier to swap a manual tranny in to an auto car with the sunroof. Provided you're in a free state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 doubtful it was transmission dependent. The 5spd is just a hard find on itself.. If you were really ambitious though, you can replace a Subaru roof skin with a sunroof skin not that easy but doable well, shucks yeah, i did some reading up on AM sunroofs. there were two brands that came up as quality to my recollection. that option is last resort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 while I do miss the sun/moon roof (the '90 Lego had one), it is not a deal breaker for me. the earlier models did not have the big panoramic sunroof like they do now, if that is what you are looking for... and to be honest, now that I think about it, I have not seen too many earlier Foresters with a sunroof. the piston slap, while it sounds terrible, is pretty benign... it is not an indicator of needing a rebuild. it is caused by the short skirted pistons (weight savings) wobbling just a little in the cold cylinders until things warm up enough to remove any excess play (heat = expansion, and all that) during the summer months, it is pretty much unnoticed - this is more of a cold weather + cold engine thing. the colder it is outside, the worse it sounds on cold start up. If the engine is quiet when at full operating temp, no worries. If it still rattles at full operating temp, then there are issues to be concerned about. right. i'm finding it to be with the 2nd gen's that had the pan' roofs. the 1st gens i've seen with the "regular" sunroofs were still pretty ample, though. just from photos, they seem a bit bigger than the one in my 4runner, so that's nice roger that, on the pistons.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 At that point. Itd be easier to swap a manual tranny in to an auto car with the sunroof. Provided you're in a free state. free state? you have a point. and, i've certainly tossed around the choice. easier or not, i'd still rather have a factory roof and swap in a tranny than install an AM roof. i've a friend with an AM roof in his wife's honda crv. it was in when they bought it. never could get it to stop leaking, so just siliconed that pos shut. granted...it is a cheap ars unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 98 S model Drop a EJ22e in it done. Sunroof.....meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 lol....well, what can i say? i love my wife and love to see her smile. i have had the notion to get something first off that would suit her mainly...with a 4eat, even. then, at some point later, scrounge together a 98 and drop my legacy junk in it. lift it a couple inches, throw some 30x9.50's on it, and maybe even put in a low range. it'd be about like my old '86 4rnr save the low ars transfer case gearing. oh, it was fun while it lasted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 so, here's an '01 sunroof. pan' or not....this will work just fine!!!http://images.gtcarlot.com/pictures/49527601.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 another question.. how do i find out what transmission i have in my legacy wagon? it's not the original unit, and i didn't ask what it came from. i'd assume, though, the 5spds from ej22 motors are universally used, but also wondered if it could have come from a different motor. moreover, i wondered if it's mate-able to a different motor....like the ej20 series or even ej25's. see, if i can only find an automatic forester, just wondered if my 5spd could be used at all. it'd save me some money....and wouldn't it just be convenient? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 another question.. how do i find out what transmission i have in my legacy wagon? it's not the original unit, and i didn't ask what it came from. i'd assume, though, the 5spds from ej22 motors are universally used, but also wondered if it could have come from a different motor. moreover, i wondered if it's mate-able to a different motor....like the ej20 series or even ej25's. see, if i can only find an automatic forester, just wondered if my 5spd could be used at all. it'd save me some money....and wouldn't it just be convenient? Never worked with 5spds that old, but I know they are cable clutch transmissions. I don't know as they are convertible.. Forester was never cable clutch, always hydraulic clutch, but some base model Impreza's might have been in 1997-1998, so you could use the Impreza 5spd parts to use your transmission but the car would be a mut.. Transmissions bolt up 1990-2013, however the bolt pattern on the bellhousing added 4 bolts for 1999 for a total of 8. If you wanted a 5spd but only found auto's, a JDM 4.44 turbo 5spd goes for about $500. The 4.44 matches Forester automatic rear diff and it will give the car a bit more zip than a standard 4.11 5spd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 7, 2017 Author Share Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) Never worked with 5spds that old, but I know they are cable clutch transmissions. I don't know as they are convertible.. Forester was never cable clutch, always hydraulic clutch, but some base model Impreza's might have been in 1997-1998, so you could use the Impreza 5spd parts to use your transmission but the car would be a mut.. Transmissions bolt up 1990-2013, however the bolt pattern on the bellhousing added 4 bolts for 1999 for a total of 8. If you wanted a 5spd but only found auto's, a JDM 4.44 turbo 5spd goes for about $500. The 4.44 matches Forester automatic rear diff and it will give the car a bit more zip than a standard 4.11 5spd okay...i'll look more into this. hydraulic be would nice, and so would a lower final drive. thanks! Edited September 7, 2017 by thook44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 if you can't find a tranny to match the final drive ratio of the Foz, you can always swap out the rear end... as long as both ends match (front & rear), you are good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 This is a crap seller but a good example. These transmissions are $400 all day long from reasonable sellers. That's what I paid for mine, and they had several. Another place had them too for the same price and several others at this price. If you try to get one from a place like Osaka JDM motors, they sell good stuff but they are going to knock you for $1,500. They will give you the shipping free though. http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-Subaru-WRX-Impreza-TY755VB1AA-Transmission-EJ20k-EJ205-EJ20T-EJ20-Turbo-Used-/322696421897?epid=1928939806&hash=item4b2234a209:g:ed0AAOSwHRpZeRDW&vxp=mtr The speed sensor wiring is different between turbo and non turbo transmissions but electrically the same. Iwire makes an adapter harness for $31 if you don't want to cut/ splice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 forester with 6cyl? really? https://joplin.craigslist.org/cto/d/2004-subaru-forester-awd-wagon/6296023519.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 (edited) if you can't find a tranny to match the final drive ratio of the Foz, you can always swap out the rear end... as long as both ends match (front & rear), you are good to go. fair enough. but, would i not have a lower gearing with the original a/t gearing? (eg...4.44 vs 4.11) that is if i find a 5spd tranny to match it (which apparently i can... via matt's post) i'm familiar with toyota 4x4 diff gear swapping to a workable degree. so, if you have truck (manual) and swap in 4.88's from original 4.56, for example, you can run a larger tires without hurting overall power and mileage so much. but, 4x4's have a transfer case, too. hmmm... edit: are you saying if i were able to somehow use/convert my cable actuated 5spd tranny i'd just have to swap the rear end from my legacy or from a manual foz? Edited September 8, 2017 by thook44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 (edited) This is a crap seller but a good example. These transmissions are $400 all day long from reasonable sellers. That's what I paid for mine, and they had several. Another place had them too for the same price and several others at this price. If you try to get one from a place like Osaka JDM motors, they sell good stuff but they are going to knock you for $1,500. They will give you the shipping free though. http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-Subaru-WRX-Impreza-TY755VB1AA-Transmission-EJ20k-EJ205-EJ20T-EJ20-Turbo-Used-/322696421897?epid=1928939806&hash=item4b2234a209:g:ed0AAOSwHRpZeRDW&vxp=mtr The speed sensor wiring is different between turbo and non turbo transmissions but electrically the same. Iwire makes an adapter harness for $31 if you don't want to cut/ splice thank you kindly for the link!! this inspired me to peruse CL ads some more for foresters. nearly a handful for less than $1k. but, still none with a 5spd. and, zilch with the sunroof which, btw, my wife has decided she likes the 1st gen body style more so, as well. so, it would seem that's what we're gonna focus on....'01-'02 i'm still deliberating on a motor choice contingent on finding a "foz" (hehe) needing a motor. both (the 20 and 25 series) seem to have solid merit, but most info i find is related to the turbo dudes and what they want out of an engine. which i guess is still fairly applicable, but i'm not that fanatical, either. they talk in terms i don't even freakin understand edit: btw, is it the speed sensor that's on the pass' side of the tranny? Edited September 8, 2017 by thook44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thook44 Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 if only it had the sunroof....https://springfield.craigslist.org/cto/d/cheap-car-for-mechanically/6297408721.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 fair enough. but, would i not have a lower gearing with the original a/t gearing? (eg...4.44 vs 4.11) that is if i find a 5spd tranny to match it (which apparently i can... via matt's post) i'm familiar with toyota 4x4 diff gear swapping to a workable degree. so, if you have truck (manual) and swap in 4.88's from original 4.56, for example, you can run a larger tires without hurting overall power and mileage so much. but, 4x4's have a transfer case, too. hmmm... edit: are you saying if i were able to somehow use/convert my cable actuated 5spd tranny i'd just have to swap the rear end from my legacy or from a manual foz? On a Subaru, both front & rear diffs MUST match. If they do not match, terrible things happen... so, if you want to keep the 4.44 gearing of the auto, then you must find a tranny with the same ratio... if you swap to a tranny with 4.11 gearing, you must swap the rear diff to match it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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