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Tire sizes for stock height Justy for light off-road


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18 replies to this topic

#1 PictureChasers

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 11:29 AM

We have recently switched our "Cowcar" from a VW COWbriolet to a 1990 MOObaru Justy AWD 5 spd. Justy will soon be "Mooafied" into our second black & white MOOsterpeice. Our last Cowcar completed 2 TSD rallies with WCRA in British Columbia. While on vacation in Oregon, a street racer at twice the speed limit injured us enough to be away from rallying for the past 2 years. We hope our little Justy will be ready for the Totem rally this November, complete with cow interior / exterior.

Struts, suspension, steering all A-1. Car was cheap due to spun bearing, and came with many new parts & receipts. Will have new or rebuilt engine will be installed this week, so we have solid car for a Justy. Why a Justy? We wanted the small size for both urban & suburban reasons, were happy with VW Rabbit for years, but wanted 4 wheel traction of some kind.

I have read hundreds of forum posts, but none that deal directly with Justy tire size. Sorry for the length, but am hoping for more than generic advice.

Seeking info on the largest practical tire sizes & brand preferences that will fit our space & criteria:
- Mostly pavement miles, lots of them, rarely over 60MPH, not concerned with race car cornering, nor road noise (we like road noise), though mileage is important (which of course is a total clash).
- Logging roads are our destination, serious trails not necessary, but we don't wish to fear washouts nor streams nor flats. Will see gravel & some mud, but nothing extreme.
- Will be flat towed 4 wheels down (already checked with Subaru) behind our 1959 MCI MC-1 motor coach (only in Canada Eh?), and we live in a pocket desert climate in Canada, so we don't want a really soft tire.
- Will swap tires & rims seasonally. Cheap-moderate for summer (disposable, leaning towards Hankook 401), will swap to good-Nokian studded for our unpredictable winters.
- Lift kit not an option this year, but seeking 14" alloy wheels (nothing fancy). Some moderate cutting and BFH is fine. Will consider using plastic VW Rabbit/Jetta fender flares after cutting & folding, looks very feasible and can get them used in abundance.
- Can accept slight turning radius limit for low speed maneuvers, but NO high-speed rubbing.
- Do those rubber "Donuts" that fit in a coil spring do anything for lift, or do they just waste suspension travel?
- Do we really want 14" rims (poor selection from Subaru), or should I use the 13" alloy for more selection / availability, lighter mass and more air in the tires (flotation & shock absorption)?

Any preference for 14" rims new/used that are easy to get in Canada or Pacific Northwest? I am thinking new & fairly cheap, to both avoid old & deal with future damage. Armed with the chart at http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/80s/wheels2/wheels.html#am14 I am thinking open alloy design, yet strong. No ideas on width or offset, are 14x6 SMSG Full Fins my most desirable option?

Anyone actually use a Justy for light off-road or TSD?


Thanks!


Darren Sweet
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#2 Qman

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 12:07 PM

I am in no way a Justy expert. I will try to help a bit if I can though. For tires and wheels I would say go with the 13's. They are stock for 4WD Justy's(?). I would suggest a rallye type tire. Kuhmo, Pirelli, Silverstone are three that come to mind. If you contact some of the club and stage rallyists in your area you may be able to find some used but still in good shape for a little cheaper.

As far as lifting a Justy goes, I don't have the answer for that one. If you are flat towing it I would run a set of stock street tires on it and change to the offroad tires to lengthen life.

We did have a couple compete in RallyX last year and one won class for the 2nd year in a row.

If I can come up with more I will add it. Good luck!

#3 Jibs

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 12:31 PM

looking at building something like this?:grin:

Posted Image

The wheels on the Subaru wheels page, don't apply to the Justy's as they have a different bolt pattern. I'm not sure what the pattern is, I'll try to look for it here and will edit this post later. As for building it up, I say go for It!! I think that the Justy's are under represented around here, so seeing another one around is awesome. As for what size tires you can fit on there, I'm not sure. You could use the search function for more info on them. Hope this helps.

#4 PictureChasers

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 01:48 PM

looking at building something like this?:grin:

That little thing is beautiful! Is it for sale?

Our engine teardown begins tomorrow. I am having Subaru dealer do engine work, cause I've never rebuilt a 3 cylinder (tricycle) engine. We are sending out crank & removing head, then either rebuilding or brand new shortblock. Any suggestions which is better? There's really not much of a price difference once labor is added, so if it's any worse than needing crank polishing, I am thinking a new shortblock for years of problem free driving. We expect to modify our Justy over time, but not the engine internally. It is EFI producing 73hp, and currently goes good for 100,000 miles & a spun bearing.

If you are flat towing it I would run a set of stock street tires on it and change to the offroad tires to lengthen life.

Great idea, but not for us. We are photographers, and need ability to pull pins launch our little Justy pod to chase waterfalls. We will swap tires seasonally, but must run same tires for all purposes. So gotta stick to "cheaper" tires.

I guess I should state that we have no intention of taking our competition very seriously. We try our best & have a blast in TSD, we enjoy the experience & the people. I used to race bomber class stock cars, not the same crowd there as rally folks.

Our main objective for this car is daily driver on & off pavement, so we will not be going too extreme. Here are the mods I have in mind in rough order
- engine rebuild or replacement
- cut a LOT of sheet metal from around tires, try Rabbit plastic fenders for cosmetics
- 14" wheels if necessary, else stock 13" steel wheels for now
- front bush bumper / towing bracket for flat towing
- engine skidplate
- rear bush bumper
- medium roll cage from strut to strut, taking over structural integrity
- possible lift in future but likely only 2 inches to retain driveability
- Flotation?

Darren Sweet
PictureChasers Photography

darren@PictureChasers.com
www.PictureChasers.com
www.CelebrationofBeauty.com

#5 Qman

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 02:05 PM

The rallye tires will work well for your application. In the states we can get used for around $40-50/tire(US funds). The problem with trying to find a big enough tire yet small enough to fit leaves you with an extremely small selection of mostly snow tires. Some indeed have a fairly aggressive pattern but only have a 1 or 2 ply sidewall. These do not hold up well to rocks and debri you would encounter on FS roads, washouts and such.

Other than that it looks like you have a good handle on what you want for it. Should work out well.

#6 PictureChasers

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 02:20 PM

[quote name='Qman']Some indeed have a fairly aggressive pattern but only have a 1 or 2 ply sidewall.
QUOTE]

Thanks Qman,

I had overlooked sidewall strength. Have checked with WCRA and no tires for me. I will go on a quest, once I determine the size(s) I might want. I figure without lift kit, tires are my only real chance at gaining any height.

#7 PictureChasers

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Posted 03 November 2005 - 05:58 AM

Tire size update for Justy's

After finding NO 13" used rally tires, and learning that size range around 165/65-13 is almost impossible to find a decent tire, we scored a deal on some spring closeout Firestone full winters from Kal-Tire in Lacombe Alberta. We bought 5 & studded them. They work so good we bought 7 more! Now I rotate 6 studs for winter, and have 6 fresh winters for summer fun!

My 91 Justy likes 175/75-13 with some very light trimming. Had to trim mostly in front of rear wheels. I notched out the bottom rib where the jack grabs, then cut off only a small but of rear quarter panel up to the wheel tub. They are tight but do not rub on INSIDE of wheel in front of real wheels. I know many use a BFH to fix this but I like my 4 wheel alignment the way it is. They rarely rub on plastic tubs in front wheel wells. Some say to remove them, some say no way to protect air intake. I am undecided...

My wife's 93 Justy GL doesnt like anything except stock 155/65-13 which usually suck, but not stick. That spot on inner rear wheel is tighter on her car, but could be small difference in rims or I guess just the way the 2 different tire brands actually sit on rim.

I LOVE my 175/75-13 Firestone studs. Staying with this size for a year or so until I get to a 2" (safe) complete body lift, and whatever I can manage to rework in suspension lift.

#8 Tbird Man

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Posted 03 November 2005 - 01:46 PM

You may also want to look at a Suzuki Swift GTi engine. I believe it may just bolt on, but I could be wrong, the Subaru Justy drivetrain is basicly a Suzuki Swift IIRC.

#9 PictureChasers

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Posted 03 November 2005 - 01:56 PM

You may also want to look at a Suzuki Swift GTi engine. I believe it may just bolt on, but I could be wrong, the Subaru Justy drivetrain is basicly a Suzuki Swift IIRC.


I dont think that will be a bolt on, and I have no desire to throw MORE weird stuff in here :-)

To my knowledge the 95's and up are made by Suzuki, but 94 and previous have nothing in common.

Thanks

#10 Tbird Man

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Posted 03 November 2005 - 01:59 PM

Well not 100% on the earlier models but the later ones not avalible in the states deffinitly are rebadges. http://cgi.ebay.co.u...7QQcmdZViewItem

#11 Zefy

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Posted 03 November 2005 - 02:29 PM

i know justy's are used in TSD... there was one at the novice event i was in... although it didn't compete...

but! at pacific forest rally there was a justy! yup... PFR is a stage rally...

this is the team profile... http://www.pacificfo...bio_McLaren.htm

that was a fun event...

if you like i could maybe find a way to contact him and see if they have any worn out, yet still usable rally tires... for competition, they are to worn... but for the average Joe, still lots of life left in em...

#12 justified

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Posted 03 November 2005 - 08:24 PM

The suzuki DOHC from the swift GT will bolt in, but only in the FWDs not the AWD. It will not bolt to either transmission, you must use the swift tranny. Just thought I'd let you know. You might want to check out the justy forum for more info.

http://subarujusty.p...0.com/index.cgi

#13 subie94

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 05:27 AM


The wheels on the Subaru wheels page, don't apply to the Justy's as they have a different bolt pattern.



does anyone have a link to the subaru wheels page.can't find it

#14 PictureChasers

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 07:23 AM

Well not 100% on the earlier models but the later ones not avalible in the states deffinitly are rebadges. http://cgi.ebay.co.u...7QQcmdZViewItem


I'm 100% on the earliers. I have been doing almost nothing for the last week except for designing my PVC garage & doing Justy research. After realizing that I must become my own "expert" to keep 2 HIGH use cars running, I am trying to learn all that I can about Justy's, much of it deciphered from "folklore".

I'm not sure about 95's but believe they were never sold in Canada or USA. I am certain that the 88-94's had little or nothing in common with Suzuki's. The 96's forward even LOOK exactly like a Suzuki. They are most certainly rebadged Suzuki's.

I have no plans to adopt any Susuki parts, though I DO plan to select a car to adapt suspension parts from.

#15 PictureChasers

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 07:39 AM

i know justy's are used in TSD... there was one at the novice event i was in... although it didn't compete...

but! at pacific forest rally there was a justy! yup... PFR is a stage rally...

this is the team profile... http://www.pacificfo...bio_McLaren.htm

that was a fun event...

if you like i could maybe find a way to contact him and see if they have any worn out, yet still usable rally tires... for competition, they are to worn... but for the average Joe, still lots of life left in em...


You mean this little guy?
Posted Image

I talked with the co-driver of this car Richard Lynch this summer at the PNE in Vancouver. I can't recall the tire details, but they use a stock or very close sized tire. I was looking to fill the wheel wells for some extra offroad clearance.

For people looking for 15" and I think he had 14" contact Patrick at Rocket Rally Racing in Squamish BC. Patrick told me he has his back wall of garage covered in used rally tires, but no 13" of course. I am planning to go see their new AWD chassis dyno, they claim the best in Western Canada, eh?
http://www.rocketrally.com/

I could not make it to photograph PFR. What happened to Partick Robert, PFR results say "retired"?

#16 Zefy

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 10:11 AM

I could not make it to photograph PFR. What happened to Partick Robert, PFR results say "retired"?



he was out in the first stage! i was so angered... his car had electrical problems... when he rolled up it sounded like he was only running on 3 cylinders... although that may have been just the lumpiest cams on the planet...

#17 soobmater

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 10:33 AM

does anyone have a link to the subaru wheels page.can't find it

ya go to the homepage, then click on 80's subaru's then 4-140 wheel page

and this is it http://www.ultimates...ls2/wheels.html

#18 PictureChasers

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 10:54 AM

he was out in the first stage! i was so angered... his car had electrical problems... when he rolled up it sounded like he was only running on 3 cylinders... although that may have been just the lumpiest cams on the planet...


3 cylinders? Sounds about right for me? That sucks for him though!

Electrical problems. Yet another reason why we buy old vehicles. I carry enough to wire arrrooouuunnddd wiring problems, then keep driving!

My wife & I made the mistake of buying an 86 Range Rover couple of years ago. After the second time it's computer said "tow me home to my mommy" (400km away), we sold it at a $7,000 loss (still paying) and decided to impose a 1 computer limit on all future vehicles.

I already have a spare computer for my Justy, and they're $25 on EBay! Our 1976 RV only has 1 ignition box & no computers. Our 1959 MCI MC-1 Motor Coach (Serial #560) was made before VIN numbers were mandatory and certainly before cars had computers. I think computers were bigger than my bus in 1959?

Our Detroit 4-71 supercharged engine (121HP) is so simple it can actually run backwards. I did it once accidentally and it was not pleasant, nor did it want to shut off.

I LOVE our bus wiring! There is a fat wire, often with a label to and from everything. If it meets another wire it's inside a junction box with both wires attatched to a screwed terminal. So obvious even I can follow it. Wiring style is identical to WWII bomber wiring. Our battery cables are #00 for 2 * 8D batteries. Bus weighs 24,000lbs and only has 4 cylinders. Why do cars need more than 3? ;-)

#19 subie94

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 11:34 AM

ya go to the homepage, then click on 80's subaru's then 4-140 wheel page

and this is it http://www.ultimates...ls2/wheels.html


thanks,didn't mean to hijack this thread




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