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Documented: The 1970 FF-1 Project car...


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1603 replies to this topic

#426 hatchsub

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 12:05 PM

Find another shop. Im sure there's a restoration shop somewhere in sacramento that will be willing to help you.

Just gotta be willing to pay for it. Sounds like the shop you talked to today didn't want your business.


Agreed. Lots of body shops dont want to deal with rust at all. They are more interested in turning cars around quickly meaning mostly collision work. Find a shop that does restorations and they will most likely help you out since they should be familiar with all sorts of rust.

#427 Kostamojen

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 07:34 PM

Felt like messing with the engine today.

Here are a couple pics with the Weber 38/38 and adapter installed with the intake manifold and air-cleaner I purchased. I had to modify the air-cleaner adapter and bottom of the air-cleaner slightly to get it to fit right, and I did a little dremeling with the intake manifold and adapter to get the airflow more flush with each other:

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I will probably put the new water pump and oil pumps I purchased on this engine later on, along with blocking off the air injection ports on the heads. I might also do some more polishing with the intake manifold and maybe clean the engine up a little more, don't know yet.

#428 joostvdw

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 08:37 AM

Woah that air filter is huge! Does it clear the hood? Are you going to do anything about the "Edelbrock" lettering on it? Engine looks nice and clean though. Thought about extrude honing the intake?

Your other work also looks great, the body isn't looking all that bad in the pictures.

#429 Kostamojen

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 11:42 PM

Woah that air filter is huge! Does it clear the hood? Are you going to do anything about the "Edelbrock" lettering on it? Engine looks nice and clean though. Thought about extrude honing the intake?

It will clear the hood fine. And the Edelbrock is staying, since it is a Edelbrock air cleaner (and a solid piece of very nice polished/painted metal I don't want to fubar with). I thought about having the intake manifold ported, but it doesnt really need it if I use this engine as it is.

#430 kiwi subbie

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 02:35 AM

haha sweet. the air filter looks the same size as the motor lol:grin:

#431 erik litchy

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 02:54 AM

whens the welding start

#432 Kostamojen

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 08:24 PM

whens the welding start

Not anytime soon.

#433 Caboobaroo

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 08:55 PM

whens the welding start


When I decide to go down and help him out:-p

I know you have the knowledge for welding. If you can, see about getting a smaller Lincoln welder with gas, 110 volt setup and do some practicing on some of the metal you cut out. You'll burn a few holes since the metal is real thin but once you get the hang of it, it should be pretty easy.

#434 Kostamojen

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 09:38 PM

I know you have the knowledge for welding. If you can, see about getting a smaller Lincoln welder with gas, 110 volt setup and do some practicing on some of the metal you cut out. You'll burn a few holes since the metal is real thin but once you get the hang of it, it should be pretty easy.

You make it sound so easy :mad:

I do know I should pick up a set of bodywork/metal working tools to pound out a few of these dents, but i'm not sure exactly what I need for that. I could also use that to help fab metal pieces for the car, but again, not sure exactly what I should do for that either if I do this myself...

#435 Caboobaroo

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 09:44 PM

Well I'll see if I can make a list of the tools I have in my box that I'd use on the car besides a welder and some metal. My tools are mainly name brand like Mac and Snap-On but I know Craftsman has a decent line up for an at home DIYer.

First off, a small 90* air grinder (most of my tools are air) with a 2" pad and a box of 36 grit greem 3M roloc discs.
This is the one I have and here's the discs and fitting
Works good for taking it down to bare metal AND giving it a good surface for some mud (aka Bondo) to stick to. Also nice to give you some fresh metal to weld to.

Second, you'll want to get a orbital sander. I spent $140 for mine off of ebay and that was for a nice one, cheaper ones can be had for less obviously. There is also two main types of pads that hold the sandpaper onto them as well; sticky and velcro. Typically, the sticky pad will come with the sander so then you can go buy a roll of paper, slap some on and go.

Next, a slide hammer. My recommendation is to get a stud puller, not a regular slide hammer where you have to drill holes into the body for it to screw into. I've seen them at Harbor Freight for around $150 or so, mine I got from Snap-On and ran me a little over $500 for the kit. This will include the gun (like a hand held spot welder), a couple boxes of studs, the special slide hammer that claps onto the stud and typically destructions on how to use it. Its pretty simple to use, slide a stud into the tip of the gun, put it up to the bare metal inside the dent (since you used your grinder to make it bare), push the tip into the gun, pull the trigger and release just as soon as it clicks. You'd need to play around with it because if you hold it too long, it'll actually weld deep into the metal and when you cut the stud off, it'll leave a hole in the metal.

A set of hammers and dollies. Another thing that can be had at Harbor Freight or Sears. Since you're not going into the prefession, I'd go to either of these two places to get them. Pretty straight forward too so I won't go into much detail.

Next, is kind of obvious. Mud, Bondo, filler, whatever you want to call it. Go get some but make sure you get two different ones; base (which is more coarse and harder to get smooth) and glaze (used over the top of the "main" filler to make it smooth and give it a nice finish to primer over). Some cheap plastic spreaders do the job. I know Wal-Mart sells them:lol:

Then you'll want some sanding blocks. 3M sells a good variety of them and with blocks, you don't want to go too cheap since this is what gives you a better, waveless look. I have a 3", 5" 8" and a 12", all in the Hookit (3M's name for the velcro system) style. You'll also want to get a soft block that is a half circle, I refer to them as a "taco pad" since you take a round disc, the same you'd use on a orbital sander, and wrap it around it.



Now there's probably a bit more that I'm probably forgetting but these tools will be the ones you'd use the most. I did a full body resto on a '69 Mustang, spend 6 months working on it, my first bodywork project, and came out flawless. I had no prior body experience except for the ocassional "DIY in the driveway half @ss dent fill job/beat it out with a hammer" sort of deal.

#436 Kostamojen

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 11:45 PM

I actually went to harbor freight looking for the body hammers/dollies, found two cheap kits, didn't know if there was something better out there so I held off buying one. I can go back and pick one up.

I don't want to use bondo for the restoration, at least I'm not concerned about "concealing" anything more than actually fixing the problems with the metal. I have used it before on the '78 wagon, mostly to help "conceal" some roof holes I had to patch on that car (I didnt weld those patches either, just used some sheet metal + JB weld... total ghetto job, but it sealed the holes). I don't want to go that route again unless neccessary.

#437 Caboobaroo

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 12:18 AM

Well what sucks is you won't be able to get the body perfect unless you know someone who can work with lead filler so Bondo it is. Don't use it to fill a hole, use it to level out a surface once the dent has been pulled almost out.

#438 Kostamojen

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 12:44 AM

Well what sucks is you won't be able to get the body perfect unless you know someone who can work with lead filler

I actually know someone who does lead work, he even taught some folks at a local body shop how to do lead work.

But really, i'm not looking for a "perfect" body job, I just want the holes filled properly, the metal replaced properly, along with some reinforcement then get it painted. That is if I did it myself...

#439 worknwood

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 01:51 AM

I don't have a lot of time this summer to spend on others projects, but could work in a couple of week ends if you think we could get the welding done in that time. You would have to bring the car up here though, so I could work on it as I have time. I have a oxy/acetylene set and a stick and wire welder, no mig and some body tools (harbor freight). If you want to do the work, thats fine, I can show you what I can, I'm no pro. We could feed you and put you up for a nite or two.:popcorn:
I salvaged a 1980 toyota pickup that my grandson totaled, (lady pull in front of him), and I found the thin high carbon steel in Japanese cars to be hard to work. I think you are going to have to get it back into shape as close as you can and use fillers, thats what I had to do. As you know modern shops can't spend the time that the old timers did in shaping and leading in metal, fillers are much faster. Here are some pictures of my repair: http://picasaweb.goo.../80ToyotaRepair

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#440 Kostamojen

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 08:30 PM

Thanks for all the offers guys. It looks like I have a lot of options still, I just need to decide what route to go. It will probably be weeks before I do make that decision though... I've got plenty to do with the car in the mean time thats for sure. (i've already started a pile of parts for powder coating)

#441 Kostamojen

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 08:02 PM

FYI, I found a 1983 FWD 4-speed i'm going to try and use the gears from for the FF-1's case. Not 100% sure its going to work yet, it will require swaping a bearing or two around, perhaps more.

#442 Kostamojen

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 02:28 PM

Good news! I found a local shop willing to do the bodywork :)

They did recommend to have it blasted first, and take it to them for the body work. The paint work will probably be done elsewhere (since the place that does the bodywork tends to do $30,000 paint jobs :-p )

The bad news is due to the heavy smoke here in California right now, its VERY unhealthy to be outside, so I can't do anything with the car right now (I still have a couple little bits to do on the chassis). But after thats done, i'm calling up the blaster and setting up an appointment so I can take a day off to take the car there :)

#443 Kostamojen

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 08:45 PM

So I did a thorough comparison of the 1983 4-speed FWD transmission I found versus the original FF-1 transmission.

There are several differences between the two, however only a couple of which I see as being an issue. The biggest issue I see is the shaft that drives the differential and the center bearing difference between the two. The other center bearing on the long shaft might well be swapable, but the other one I don't think will work due to the larger gear at the end of the shaft on the 1983 version.

Take a look, lets see what you guys think...

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I'm thinking I need a late 70's FWD 4-speed so I can see if those internals are more similar to the FF-1's...

#444 maudsland

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 04:39 AM

Kosta,
My experiance with the FF1 box's was there is a difference between the 1100 and 1300 box, from the 1300 onwards things seemed the same. The changes on the boxes was around the back of the main housing where the selecter housing bolts up, i noticed it when i had the 2 boxes side by side and a 1400 box as well. My intention was to find a early 1400 5 speed and fit the 5th gear onto the 1300 box, as you might know the 5th gear was in the selector housing as well as the 4wd transfer gear, just incase you looked at going down the 4wd route.
Hope this helps
Thierry

#445 Kostamojen

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 12:24 PM

Kosta,
My experiance with the FF1 box's was there is a difference between the 1100 and 1300 box, from the 1300 onwards things seemed the same. The changes on the boxes was around the back of the main housing where the selecter housing bolts up, i noticed it when i had the 2 boxes side by side and a 1400 box as well. My intention was to find a early 1400 5 speed and fit the 5th gear onto the 1300 box, as you might know the 5th gear was in the selector housing as well as the 4wd transfer gear, just incase you looked at going down the 4wd route.
Hope this helps
Thierry

The 5-speed and 4WD routes are basically out of the picture.

I do notice there seems to be a difference between the 1100's and 1300's in the service manual, but I can't tell what the differences are for the actual bearing sizes and such. You don't have any pictures of any of them do you?

I think I need to find a 1400 or other late 70's FWD box to see what the differences are. I do believe this "last-gen" 4-speed FWD box I got has too many small differences to be useable. But i'm asking the technicians here at work who have experience with the old school transmissions what they think.

#446 maudsland

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 03:47 PM

Sorry kosta no picture, these recollections were around 20 yrs ago. The difference i saw was in the selector housing, on the top of the housing where it bolts up to the main case i noticed the casting where the bearing sits is bigger on the 1300/1400 box to the 1100 box, other than that they looked identical. never split the boxes to see internally.
Thierry

#447 Kostamojen

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 09:24 PM

Sorry kosta no picture, these recollections were around 20 yrs ago. The difference i saw was in the selector housing, on the top of the housing where it bolts up to the main case i noticed the casting where the bearing sits is bigger on the 1300/1400 box to the 1100 box, other than that they looked identical. never split the boxes to see internally.
Thierry

Hmm. Well, the diameter of the bearings on the side where the selector housing connects to are the same diameter. But you can see in the 5th picture I posted that the width of those bearings are quite different (however, there doesn't seem to be a issue with interference or anything due to the larger bearing).

I'm thinking I might try to use the final drive gear from the '83 at the very least, perhaps find out of the part numbers for the final drive are similar to other 3.7 final drive FWD 4-speeds, that might help indicate specific differences between the years better).

I might end up having to use the original gearing if all else fails :(

Maybe somewhere out there is a 1300 FF-1 gearbox???

#448 maudsland

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 04:12 PM

Doesn't Moosen know someone with some 1300 boxes, charlie i think his name is.
Thierry

#449 moosens

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 04:35 PM

Doesn't Moosen know someone with some 1300 boxes, charlie i think his name is.
Thierry


Not sure what's left there. I'll check when I can.

#450 Kostamojen

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 08:32 PM

Alright guys, i'm having a little trouble figuring out how to transport the car...


I will need to take the car to the blaster, back to the body shop, then back home, then to a paint shop, then back again, then to a radiator shop eventually, perhaps somewhere else for a roll cage in between, don't know for sure but several times.

That means renting a Uhaul type truck could get expensive over time ($30 a day plus $1.09 a mile ).

So i'm looking into say renting a trailer, but I don't have a big truck to use (Just my Impreza, which can only tow 1500 lbs, and access to a Forester XT which can do 2400lbs but I need to buy a tow hitch for either one).

And in this case, I would need to find a trailer that weighs very little yet needs to be ~5' wide by at least 9' long (to accommodate the wheel base... The chassis is physically 5' wide, but the jack points along the bottom are about 4.2; from side to side. The wheel base is ~9' but the whole car is 12.5' long, however the jack points are about 6' from front to back).

Most rental places don't seem to have utility trailers that small AND flat, most tend to be 4'x8' and everything else is like a class 2 or 3 trailer.

Buying a trailer is an option, but is expensive and I don't have much room... The "folding" trailers like from harbor freight are slightly too narrow (only 4') and have fenders/wheels in the way of making them wider.

Plus, there's the biggest issue which is that I work Monday-Friday and have to request days off 2 weeks in advance and even then might not get the day off. PLUS at this point, I need at least two people to help lift the car to load it (unless someone knows of a good dolly type system I could use?) and if I do rent something it would have to be on a weekday since none of these shops are open on weekends and everyone works on weekdays same as I do...

So, any suggestions??? :(




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