Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

cruise control question


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 Txakura

Txakura

    Not the Stig

  • Members
  • 1,007 posts
  • Colfax, WA

Posted 07 January 2009 - 02:55 PM

ok, cruise has never worked on my 1990 loyale rs, got it from my folks and they never used cruise so didn't know it was out

believe it's factory cruise, small panel to the right of the steering wheel on the dash

anyway, the fuse isn't blown, but beyond that, I don't even know if the panel is getting power or where most of the components are for the system (aside from the vacuum actuator and the bigger pieces under the hood)

so, the $5 question is - where do I start? and does anyone have a schematic of the electrical for this?

thanks gang

#2 L1800Turbo

L1800Turbo

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Germany

Posted 07 January 2009 - 03:40 PM

Hello,

if you need a wiring diagram I can mail it to you, I would start with the vacuum compressor and give power on it manually to check if the vacuum switch, the engine and all valves are running.
I already had a problem with the vacuum switch, I repaired it with some tape :banana:

Kai

#3 Caboobaroo

Caboobaroo

    USMB Drunk

  • Members
  • 6,889 posts
  • Oregon City

Posted 07 January 2009 - 04:20 PM

ok, cruise has never worked on my 1990 loyale rs, got it from my folks and they never used cruise so didn't know it was out

believe it's factory cruise, small panel to the right of the steering wheel on the dash

anyway, the fuse isn't blown, but beyond that, I don't even know if the panel is getting power or where most of the components are for the system (aside from the vacuum actuator and the bigger pieces under the hood)

so, the $5 question is - where do I start? and does anyone have a schematic of the electrical for this?

thanks gang


Well I hate to be the bear of bad news but its an aftermarket setup that you have. If it was indeed factory, right below the rear defrost button on the left side of the instrument panel, there's be a "CRUISE" button to power up the controls that would be on the steering wheel.

I'm not quite in a thinking mood right now so I can't really explain very well on how to diagnose the system but just thought I'd give you a heads up that from the sounds of it, its not a factory cruise system.

#4 Skip

Skip

    Flatuous Blather

  • Moderator
  • 8,991 posts
  • Latrobe, Pennsylvania

Posted 07 January 2009 - 04:44 PM

first place I would start
is the switch gear
assoiated with the brake/clutch pedal(s)

either one if closed will cause the system to
not "cruise".

you do not mention a tranny so if it is an auto
ignore the clutch pedal reference.

#5 Txakura

Txakura

    Not the Stig

  • Members
  • 1,007 posts
  • Colfax, WA

Posted 08 January 2009 - 02:15 PM

Well I hate to be the bear of bad news but its an aftermarket setup that you have. If it was indeed factory, right below the rear defrost button on the left side of the instrument panel, there's be a "CRUISE" button to power up the controls that would be on the steering wheel.

I'm not quite in a thinking mood right now so I can't really explain very well on how to diagnose the system but just thought I'd give you a heads up that from the sounds of it, its not a factory cruise system.


aaahhh hence the blanked panel pop out over there... hmmm, if I could figure out who made the aftermarket system I might be able to get a diagram from them, thanks

#6 Txakura

Txakura

    Not the Stig

  • Members
  • 1,007 posts
  • Colfax, WA

Posted 08 January 2009 - 02:16 PM

first place I would start
is the switch gear
assoiated with the brake/clutch pedal(s)

either one if closed will cause the system to
not "cruise".

you do not mention a tranny so if it is an auto
ignore the clutch pedal reference.


sorry, MT, that is a worthy tip and an excellent example of something that can be checked easily that I would not have thought of

dasm I love this bbs :)

#7 Txakura

Txakura

    Not the Stig

  • Members
  • 1,007 posts
  • Colfax, WA

Posted 08 January 2009 - 02:22 PM

Hello,

if you need a wiring diagram I can mail it to you, I would start with the vacuum compressor and give power on it manually to check if the vacuum switch, the engine and all valves are running.
I already had a problem with the vacuum switch, I repaired it with some tape :banana:

Kai


not sure what the 'vacuum compressor' refers to, or what the switch would look like

it seem like I have a vacuum reservoir, or tank under the hood, but I'm not sure what the switch would be or where it would be

seems I've actually got an aftermarket set up, the stock diagram might still be useful to show me an example of a complete system and give me a ball park to work within - I'll send my addy

thanks to all of you for taking the time to reply

#8 Skip

Skip

    Flatuous Blather

  • Moderator
  • 8,991 posts
  • Latrobe, Pennsylvania

Posted 08 January 2009 - 02:36 PM

the vacuum compressor (pump)
is used on turbo cars
as they have a positive manifold pressure when
the turbo is boosting.

Your's may just tap off the manifold vacuum.

Another bit of kit you will need to investigate
is the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor)

Some aftermarket units use the tachometer
signal off of the coil negative side.

Some have magnets on the DOJ (inner CV) and a reed switch
fitted close by.

Some tap an existing VSS.

You might find (under the dash -pull the panel that is above your knees
when driving) a black box with the manuf. and model number on it.

Good luck.

#9 Txakura

Txakura

    Not the Stig

  • Members
  • 1,007 posts
  • Colfax, WA

Posted 09 January 2009 - 12:59 PM

Another bit of kit you will need to investigate
is the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor)
Some have magnets on the DOJ (inner CV) and a reed switch
fitted close by.
Good luck.


How much you wanna' bet some clever mechanic left that on the floor the last time my dad changed the cv joints? I've had them changed once too, I'll look for anything 'extra' on the outside of the case near the axles

I once coined the term 'forensic mechanics', this is a good example of it's use :banana:

#10 Skip

Skip

    Flatuous Blather

  • Moderator
  • 8,991 posts
  • Latrobe, Pennsylvania

Posted 09 January 2009 - 01:30 PM

If when having the outer CV serviced the entire axle (half shaft)
was replaced the magnets are probably gone as
they are glued (JB weld epoxy ect) and wire ties to the DOJ.

Now on some CCs I've installed you have the choice
of using the magnets OR tapping the tach (RPM) signal.

The magnets give a better control of the speed especially
when an auto tranny is fitted.

Again, you might want to find the magic black box and
"internet-vestigate" to see if this is a possibility.

#11 Txakura

Txakura

    Not the Stig

  • Members
  • 1,007 posts
  • Colfax, WA

Posted 23 January 2009 - 12:50 AM

while tearing the car apart to fix the power windows... I think I stumbled on the cruise control box, npn, nsn, nothin'... I'll keep digging.

#12 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,257 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 23 January 2009 - 01:19 PM

Well I hate to be the bear of bad news but its an aftermarket setup that you have. If it was indeed factory, right below the rear defrost button on the left side of the instrument panel, there's be a "CRUISE" button to power up the controls that would be on the steering wheel.


There were actually 3 different cruise control setups used by subaru.

1 was factory installed. It uses a electric Vac pump.

The other 2 are dealer installed, utilizing engine vaccum.

1 of the dealer installed systems utilized the steering wheel mounted controls.

The other dealer installed setup uses engine vacuum and a single control panel that mounts on the dash, right of column. Ever seen Cruise in a DL wagon? What he describes is this system. Dealer installed.



The speed sensor signal should come from the dash speed sensor in the dash that the ECU uses..

Start by checking that the Vaccum canister, mounted to passenger side strut tower, is hooked up. It will be the round black sphere with a hose that comes from eng. vac, and *T*s through a check valve, and the other end goes to a Vac diaphram also mounted to the passenger side strut tower. Check that all hoses leading top and from this canister are good, and getting vacuum when eng. on.

Next check the vacuum hose that runs from that vac diaphram, along the firewall, into the cab and down to the vac diaphrahm at the gas pedal. Make sure it well connected.

If all that sorts out well, THEN start troublshooting wiring and sensor issues.


But be assured, this is a Subaru installed system.

#13 Txakura

Txakura

    Not the Stig

  • Members
  • 1,007 posts
  • Colfax, WA

Posted 23 January 2009 - 11:05 PM

Start by checking that the Vaccum canister, mounted to passenger side strut tower, is hooked up. It will be the round black sphere with a hose that comes from eng. vac, and *T*s through a check valve, and the other end goes to a Vac diaphram also mounted to the passenger side strut tower. Check that all hoses leading top and from this canister are good, and getting vacuum when eng. on.
Next check the vacuum hose that runs from that vac diaphram, along the firewall, into the cab and down to the vac diaphrahm at the gas pedal. Make sure it well connected.


Your timing is excellent. I was just under the hood following the vacuum tubing around to all the components and checking they were at least connected. At an idle, I have vacuum to the strut tower device, (vacuum actuator?) and if I unplug the line from it, and apply vacuum the engine revs up. So, everything under the dash looked good, and apparently works with suction on it.

but... this device, it has four electrical leads running to it + vac in and vac out, isn't passing the vac along. I assume this is normal at an idle. So it seems to me, it is this device that is not working, or it is not being 'told' to work. Kind of back to square one, I guess I can use the 'cheapest part first' rule and see what happens? At least now I know it CAN work if vacuum goes to the throttle diaphragm.

Edited by Txakura, 24 January 2009 - 12:34 AM.
re-tested car


#14 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,257 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 24 January 2009 - 03:06 AM

but... this device, it has four electrical leads running to it + vac in and vac out, isn't passing the vac along. I assume this is normal at an idle. So it seems to me, it is this device that is not working, or it is not being 'told' to work. Kind of back to square one, I guess I can use the 'cheapest part first' rule and see what happens? At least now I know it CAN work if vacuum goes to the throttle diaphragm.


So, those 4 wires should run back into the cab, to a control unit. You need to try and verify that those wires are intact, and the control unit has not had any wires come loose.

Probably a good idea to test continuity through all the buttons on the control panel ( the buttons mounted on the dash)

Other than that I don't know how to fully test the unit.

#15 Txakura

Txakura

    Not the Stig

  • Members
  • 1,007 posts
  • Colfax, WA

Posted 24 January 2009 - 06:39 AM

So, those 4 wires should run back into the cab, to a control unit. You need to try and verify that those wires are intact, and the control unit has not had any wires come loose.

Probably a good idea to test continuity through all the buttons on the control panel ( the buttons mounted on the dash)

Other than that I don't know how to fully test the unit.


me either. I can't find any info on the system in any subbie reference either... I did get a schematic in my email from Kai, but it is for a turbo 1.8 and has a vacuum pump and slightly different 5 wire servo unit

I'm kind of stuck unless someone here has an idea or even another servo unit for me try, I can pull that module out and check the circuit board for anything obvious, burned resistor, broken capacitor etc :-\

#16 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,257 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 24 January 2009 - 07:15 AM

me either. I can't find any info on the system in any subbie reference either... I did get a schematic in my email from Kai, but it is for a turbo 1.8 and has a vacuum pump and slightly different 5 wire servo unit

I'm kind of stuck unless someone here has an idea or even another servo unit for me try, I can pull that module out and check the circuit board for anything obvious, burned resistor, broken capacitor etc :-\


Yeah, the pump operated, Factory installed stystem, is the only one you will ever find in the FSM.

Well, like I said, the buttons can be tested to make sure they are making contact when pushed.

Other than that, you could VERY, VERY securly support the front end on jackstands. Then try operating the cruise control (i"d limit speed to about 30ish) see what type of signals are reaching the Servo/Control diaphragm.

#17 Txakura

Txakura

    Not the Stig

  • Members
  • 1,007 posts
  • Colfax, WA

Posted 24 January 2009 - 11:00 AM

Yeah, the pump operated, Factory installed stystem, is the only one you will ever find in the FSM.

Well, like I said, the buttons can be tested to make sure they are making contact when pushed.

Other than that, you could VERY, VERY securly support the front end on jackstands. Then try operating the cruise control (i"d limit speed to about 30ish) see what type of signals are reaching the Servo/Control diaphragm.


thought of that, might be a good way to launch my car into the shed :eek:
I may try that later today
but, yes, it would be good to know if any sort of voltage is getting to the servo at all

#18 Txakura

Txakura

    Not the Stig

  • Members
  • 1,007 posts
  • Colfax, WA

Posted 29 January 2009 - 10:29 PM

found it. it was the cruise panel button itself

now, let me defend myself a bit, I followed all the other crap because I could get to it easily

to get the switch panel out I had to take off the various trim panels, drop the steering column, and remove the visor around the instrument panel - just so I could unhook the cruise control panel and unravel the wiring from the snakes nest under the steering wheel and ecu

Finally, with nothing to lose, I cut the wires where I could easily splice them and put the damn cruise panel on a multimeter

having no schematic or any reference material at all, I figured out by process of elimination what did what... until I realized the fault

I have a small 12v switch from a computer front panel, I soldered it in and -viola- I can set it and forget it again on the long hauls

I have to come up with something that doesn't look like crap to call it really done, I have some wires hanging out right now :rolleyes:

-btw- in an earlier post i said something about it being able to work, what I meant was that at least all the vacuum crappola was intact as I was able to rev the engine from under the hood with the vacuum line from the right front strut tower to the dash mess -

so this week I have my cruise, all heater fan speeds and power driver window working again... sadly the passenger side mysteriously gave up after one day, but I have the panel at my feet and I'll get it sorted out

I killed 'tinkerbell' and that damn 'door lock' indicator too :grin:




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users