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84 Gl Failed CA Smog ECS Light O2 Sensor ?


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19 replies to this topic

#1 roadsubiedog

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 01:14 PM

My other 84 gl had too high O2 level and everthing else seemed to be OK. The mechanic told me it is probably the o2 sensor and that "they are a *************** to get out." and he doesn't do them anymore.

1. would this cause the ECS light to come on after about 15 minutes and stay on?

2. need advice on how to get this out without breaking it and replacing it?

3. what do these cost?

he said the o2 level was running over 10 percent and even after being thoroughly warmed up it would not come down.

Thanks

RSD

#2 ihscout54

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 04:39 PM

Is he saying it is too lean? The sensor may very well be setting the light. But you might have other issues than just the o2 sensor here. If its not real rusty dropping the exhaust speeds things up. Its a little tight under there, but they arent impossible to get too. You may want to rent the proper tool as it makes it easier and reduces chances of breaking the sensor, especially if the factory heat sheild is inplace. Its a socket w/slot cut out for the wire/s. Odds are good it will be seized in there and you will need to soak it in P.B. for a night first, and you may have to chase the threads. Its been a long time for me though and the last time I did it I had the exhaust out. One more tip... If you can find a denso or NGK buy it. They fit better than the bosch ones.
The NGK sensor runs bout $44.00 befor tax.

#3 s'ko

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 04:47 PM

+1 on dropping the y pipes. Getting the O2 sensor off can be a pita.

If you do happen to strip the treads, the tap for the sensors is 18mm and 1.5 pitch. Ace sold one for 12.00. Kind of a one use tool, but it works great for putting new threads into your 02 bung.:banana:

#4 roadsubiedog

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:13 PM

Is he saying it is too lean? The sensor may very well be setting the light. But you might have other issues than just the o2 sensor here. If its not real rusty dropping the exhaust speeds things up. Its a little tight under there, but they arent impossible to get too. You may want to rent the proper tool as it makes it easier and reduces chances of breaking the sensor, especially if the factory heat sheild is inplace. Its a socket w/slot cut out for the wire/s. Odds are good it will be seized in there and you will need to soak it in P.B. for a night first, and you may have to chase the threads. Its been a long time for me though and the last time I did it I had the exhaust out. One more tip... If you can find a denso or NGK buy it. They fit better than the bosch ones.
The NGK sensor runs bout $44.00 befor tax.


Thanks. He said it 'may' be the sensor or it might need carb work. the o2 readings were high.

i'm not sure what kind of carb it has. it is a E81 84 Gl non turbo. The carb has a single chamber.

It has been sitting in garage for about 5 years. I did a tune-up, changed the oil, air filter, put premium gas in it and ran it up and down freeway for about 30 minutes and got it nice and hot. Did notice hesitation and felt like it was bogging down in spots but then it would get up and go and i was running it 65-75 mph.

Ca lifornia changed their permit law on Jan 1st. One day only instead of before ( 30-45 days )

I could get a 30 day permit only if the mechanic actually failed it and he told me it would be in the computer as a gross=polluter and then you have to take it to a special station far from here and it's a real nightmare. he did not recommend that.

#5 ihscout54

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 06:31 PM

You wont pass with any emissions lamps lit. So you will need to remidy that. Are you sure its a 1bbl? I bet its a hitachi 2bbl the kinda look like a 1bbl on the surface. The Carter 1bbl are uncommon. You will need to check for all the usual suspects Vac leaks timing etc, it does sound like it may need carb help as well. C.A. Emissions is a joke, you cant get a P.O. box in Carson City or something?

#6 NV Zeno

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 06:52 PM

You mentioned that the light comes on about 15 minutes after starting. (I've got an '83 that was originally sold in California.) I had the same thing happen to me. Turned out to be a "temperature sensor", not the one located in the bottom of your radiator, that's to control your electric fan. The sensor in question is located (it's been a long time, I hope I remember this right) near the thermostat housing sort of behind the carburetor, that goes into the intake manifold, maybe the block. There is a wire coming out of it.

Originally I thought it was the O2 sensor, but as it turned out, the reason the ECS didn't light right away is because the car was still cold. the ECU doesn't detect the temp sensor malfunction until the car is warmed up a little. That's the way it was explained to me by a SUPER Subaru repair guy in Tahoe. After replaceing that sensor, voila..ECS light off.

The o2 replacement came at a later time, for a different reason.

Please let us know how it goes.

Just my 2 bucks

Edited by NV Zeno, 10 March 2009 - 10:11 AM.
Additional comment


#7 roadsubiedog

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 04:19 PM

You mentioned that the light comes on about 15 minutes after starting. (I've got an '83 that was originally sold in California.) I had the same thing happen to me. Turned out to be a "temperature sensor", not the one located in the bottom of your radiator, that's to control your electric fan. The sensor in question is located (it's been a long time, I hope I remember this right) near the thermostat housing sort of behind the carburetor, that goes into the intake manifold, maybe the block. There is a wire coming out of it.

Originally I thought it was the O2 sensor, but as it turned out, the reason the ECS didn't light right away is because the car was still cold. the ECU doesn't detect the temp sensor malfunction until the car is warmed up a little. That's the way it was explained to me by a SUPER Subaru repair guy in Tahoe. After replaceing that sensor, voila..ECS light off.

The o2 replacement came at a later time, for a different reason.

Please let us know how it goes.

Just my 2 bucks



would this sensor failing cause the high 02 reading? I think i know where the one you are talking about . there is a plastic heat shield attached to the carb which i had to take off when i took off the EGR valve to clean out and unclog.

attached to the EGR asssembly was the sensor . i think.

#8 NV Zeno

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 09:00 AM

Hmm..thinking back.

No, I don't believe the temp sensor caused a high reading, at least enough to cause a smog test failure (Alameda County way back then). It did cause the ECS light to illuminate, though. I never knew if it caused high emissions, because I had that repaired before I took the car in for smog testing. I suppose it could be possible, though.

I did, however, replace the o2 sensor a few years later, can't remember if it was because of too high readings or not. I don't believe my car ever failed in California during the time it lived there.

#9 roadsubiedog

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 11:29 AM

Hmm..thinking back.

No, I don't believe the temp sensor caused a high reading, at least enough to cause a smog test failure (Alameda County way back then). It did cause the ECS light to illuminate, though. I never knew if it caused high emissions, because I had that repaired before I took the car in for smog testing. I suppose it could be possible, though.

I did, however, replace the o2 sensor a few years later, can't remember if it was because of too high readings or not. I don't believe my car ever failed in California during the time it lived there.


Thanks, maybe that's it causing the light to come on. i also suspect the carb bc of the hesitations and bogging down. I took the air cleaner off and it sounds like a spitting sound even though it idles OK.

When I drove it sometimes i could get up to speed quickly or normally and a couple time it was rather slow like it was starving for fuel.

Darn California with it's new ONE DAY permit only. I think if i had a couple weeks of driving it around after a long layoff it would clean out.

Another case of 95 % of the people being penalized bc of a few.

rsd

#10 mountaingoatgruff

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 02:37 PM

too high O2 level and everthing else seemed to be OK


too much oxygen? are you freakin kidding?!?

"you can't drive you car in the state of california because it puts out too much breathable air, were gonna need you to help prop up our bs economy to fix this."

i know its a symptom of a malfunction but this is exactly the difference between laws for the public well being and laws that only serve the gov't. i won't get going on the corruption of the cali air resources board, i get my wrists slapped enough here and qman's got better stuff to do...

roadsubiedog, you said the car sat for 5 years and mentioned changing air and oil filters - have you changed the fuel filters? my memory isn't always reliable but i think there's 2 on those cars. might help with the hesitation.

also, as ihscout54 suggested, look for vac leaks and verify the timing. my 84 hatchback with the same engine/carb was a hopeless mess of vac leaks.

good luck, you're gonna need it.

#11 roadsubiedog

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 03:01 PM

too much oxygen? are you freakin kidding?!?

"you can't drive you car in the state of california because it puts out too much breathable air, were gonna need you to help prop up our bs economy to fix this."

i know its a symptom of a malfunction but this is exactly the difference between laws for the public well being and laws that only serve the gov't. i won't get going on the corruption of the cali air resources board, i get my wrists slapped enough here and qman's got better stuff to do...

roadsubiedog, you said the car sat for 5 years and mentioned changing air and oil filters - have you changed the fuel filters? my memory isn't always reliable but i think there's 2 on those cars. might help with the hesitation.

also, as ihscout54 suggested, look for vac leaks and verify the timing. my 84 hatchback with the same engine/carb was a hopeless mess of vac leaks.

good luck, you're gonna need it.



gee, i didn't even think of the gas filters. yes, there are two. This car is almost showroom condition. it's beautiful sky blue. I will try to post pics if i can figure it out. It's worth fixing. If can't pass CA smog next time , i'll put in an engine.

it has 151k on it but doesn't look it. I've been saving it for an emergency. my 99 OBW blew the headgasket and last night a front axle went on my other old trusty 84 ( 308k on it )

this is something i should of taken care of last summer ( I'm VP of the procrastinators club here )

thanks for the filter tip. i'll need those anyway.

#12 NV Zeno

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 07:31 PM

Re: your hesitation and bogging...

Mine has done that for so long I can't remember when it didn't do it (and I've had this car since 1989!). A different (rebuilt) carb was some help when it was new, but that has to have been 100,000 miles ago by now:rolleyes:. It's always a good idea to change your fuel filters, especially after sitting for so long. For that matter, your symptoms may be caused by something as simple as that old cruddy gas that's been in the tank all that time.

My experience with a clogged filter has been a starving fuel situation when I was flooring it, like entering traffic, or just driving around in Incline Village (very hilly)..at idle and once up to cruising speed it usually cleared up.

I'm almost certain Norm can figure it out and have you rolling in very little time.

Just my 2 bucks

#13 roadsubiedog

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 07:49 AM

Re: your hesitation and bogging...

Mine has done that for so long I can't remember when it didn't do it (and I've had this car since 1989!). A different (rebuilt) carb was some help when it was new, but that has to have been 100,000 miles ago by now:rolleyes:. It's always a good idea to change your fuel filters, especially after sitting for so long. For that matter, your symptoms may be caused by something as simple as that old cruddy gas that's been in the tank all that time.

My experience with a clogged filter has been a starving fuel situation when I was flooring it, like entering traffic, or just driving around in Incline Village (very hilly)..at idle and once up to cruising speed it usually cleared up.

I'm almost certain Norm can figure it out and have you rolling in very little time.

Just my 2 bucks



Thanks. my OP was wrong. it was not th o2 that was high. it was the CO2 that was running around 9.8 . what does that suggest? too lean or too rich?

#14 roadsubiedog

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 02:57 PM

Re: your hesitation and bogging...

Mine has done that for so long I can't remember when it didn't do it (and I've had this car since 1989!). A different (rebuilt) carb was some help when it was new, but that has to have been 100,000 miles ago by now:rolleyes:. It's always a good idea to change your fuel filters, especially after sitting for so long. For that matter, your symptoms may be caused by something as simple as that old cruddy gas that's been in the tank all that time.

My experience with a clogged filter has been a starving fuel situation when I was flooring it, like entering traffic, or just driving around in Incline Village (very hilly)..at idle and once up to cruising speed it usually cleared up.

I'm almost certain Norm can figure it out and have you rolling in very little time.

Just my 2 bucks


Thanks all for the tips. I changed the filters as suggested, checked vac hoses. made sure chock was open when warm. the reading that was too high was the CO reading. HC was not high.

Also, it is a Hitachi carb. I can smell gas. mechanic said I might have to rebuild the carb. are there kits for this and are they worth rebuilding?

i am gonna continue checking the sensors, etc and eliminate possibilities before tearing into the carb.

seems to be a lot of members in the reno/tahoe area and would like to meet some of you.

thanks

#15 ihscout54

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 03:36 PM

That makes more sense, your car does not run lean. What stage were the CO levels high? Just idle? acceleration or? Some other thoughts for you:
Engine timing + condition of timing advance mechansims.
Internal leaks into the carb.
The O2 sensor + solenoids.

#16 NV Zeno

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 03:46 PM

Does the ECS light still come on?

#17 roadsubiedog

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 06:45 PM

That makes more sense, your car does not run lean. What stage were the CO levels high? Just idle? acceleration or? Some other thoughts for you:
Engine timing + condition of timing advance mechansims.
Internal leaks into the carb.
The O2 sensor + solenoids.


the co level was high at idle but not tested at 2500.

haven't checked your listed issues yet

#18 roadsubiedog

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 06:46 PM

Does the ECS light still come on?


yes, the ECS light comes on after about 15 minutes . I think you already told me to check a sensor behind the carb . haven't done that yet.

#19 roadsubiedog

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 07:08 PM

yes, the ECS light comes on after about 15 minutes . I think you already told me to check a sensor behind the carb . haven't done that yet.


Today I couldn't get the ECS light to come on. The only thing i did differently was take the air cleaner cover off and i took the evaporative cannister out to check the filter. I plugged up the hose that was sucking air.

it's been idling for the last 40 minutes without the light coming on. before it would come on at about 15 minutes.

i still have not checked the duty solenoids, plugs, O2 sensor , and the other stuff yet.

my sniffer ( nose ) is plugged so i can't smell any excess gas if there is any.

#20 naru

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 12:37 PM

Read the trouble code off of the flashing light on the ECU next time the ECS light comes on.




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