dfoyl
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Posts posted by dfoyl
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All EJ brakes are bolt-on upgrades (except the WRX rear 2 pots which need kartboy adaptors or the correct backing plates, and SVX/Tribeca oddballs).
Donor vehicles (stolen from nasioc thread) : 91-94 Legacy turbo, 96-01 Legacy GT, 96-01 Outback, 00-04 Legacy non-GT, 98+ Impreza RS/TS/2.5i, 98+ Forester.
it's not much of an upgrade in terms of rotor size, but if you are running smaller than 16" wheels they will clear fine.
You'll need the calipers (obviously), backing plates, and rotors.
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I believe these are no longer available from Subaru - in which case your best bet is a junkyard. The problem is most of them are so worn down by now that pretty much any key will start them. It may be possible (depending on the damage) to have a new lock mechanism put in by a locksmith which will fix the damage but also result in being able to stick with a single key common with your door locks.
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Good time to upgrade to discs!
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There's a guy on here (who I can't find in the vendor section) who does them. I bought the tailgate badge off him and it has held up very well.
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Finally got the EJ25 for my Frankenmotor pulled out of the 02 Liberty (Legacy). Tried dropping the engine and transmission together, couldn't get it to separate from the driveshaft so I thought the hell with it, I'll just leave the transmission in situ and disconnect the engine from the box. Had read lots of horror stories on this, WRT people who couldn't get them to separate due to stuck dowels, but it was easy in my case (even though the car had been sitting for ~2 years when I bought it). Drifted it apart with a couple of screwdrivers, starts to split, pull forward and the transmission and driveshaft decide to finally separate. Push engine and transmission back on driveshaft, prop transmission, try again - finally comes apart except for torque converter (it's an auto, obviously) which stays on the engine side. Weight causes engine to tilt backwards, use one hand to steady engine and other to pull it forward, take out torque converter, drop engine under front of car, and done. Removed water pump and timing set, next is heads and then I can pick it up and split the case on a bench (I removed top end prior to removing engine from car).
Update : Heads are off, balance plate is off, cracking into the block tomorrow.
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All phase 1 cranks are the same, the EJ25 crank was just offset ground down to a smaller journal size to increase the stroke. You need to keep your EJ25 crank and rods together, those rods are unique to the phase 1 EJ25.
I don't know anything about EJ18 heads, but my concern would be if the combustion chamber is much smaller than an EJ22 you are going to (a) starve the EJ25 for air, and (
end up with a super high compression ratio (putting in a thicker HG would fix the latter). -
As an update on this, I have found a local shop that does the EJ22 sleeves in the EJ20 blocks quite regularly (they claim to be Subaru Australia's Melbourne engine rebuilder, and do about 1 Subaru engine a day (they showed me several blocks, including an EJ25 with Darton sleeves, plus had a couple of WRX's up on lifts). The latest suggestion was to use the longest OEM rods possible, with shorter pistons, which led me to the possibility of offset grinding a phase 2 EJ25 crank to 83mm and then using the phase 1 EJ25 rods. This would give me a 2.50L EJ20 with a 98mm bore. Would need to look into clearancing issues but otherwise sounds promising.
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I think you are going to struggle for anything significant in improvement relating to bore. That said, Darton would happily make you a set of custom sleeves...for a price.
The thing to look in to would be stroking. The EJ family really didn't increase the bore that much from the EA (92mm) - EJ20 is also 92mm but is 11% bigger in capacity due to stroke of 75 vs 67mm for the EA. I would think at best you might squeeze out a bore of 96mm using custom sleeves and a lot of machining but that will only take you up to 1.94L (up 8%). The main issue would be clearancing the block (less of an issue if you are boring as well), and of course Subaru made a few changes to the block design when they went to a higher stroke/bore ratio!
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Heads and intake need to match generations. Phase 1 block (pre-1998-ish) will take phase 2 heads and vice versa but the intake has to suit the heads. Wiring should also be a bit easier with a phase 1.
A complete phase 1 EJ22 should be pretty cheap, take off the intake & heads and swap on to your EJ22...
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Delta Cams should be able to help in rebuilding or even re-profiling your cams to other than stock. Good luck getting them to respond to emails though, you will need to call.
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If I use an EJ25 (or 22) shortblock it needs engineering certification for all mods - potentially several thousand dollars. if I went that path I'd go a DOHC EJ25T or get an EJ206 from a B4 and go TT.
I have now sourced an EJ204 block, have spoken to Darton on the EJ20/22 97-100mm sleeves (they don't recommend the 97-100mm sleeves in the EJ20 as the block needs a slight trim but allow it is done a fair bit with no reported issues), sourced a phase 2 EJ25 crank & rods (I might end up using the EJ204 WRX rods, not sure which is better at this stage), and am pulling down the heads for the cams to be reground by Delta. Probably looking at a final CR of 11:1, and around 2.38L depending on suitable pistons.
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Sorry, can't help on a suitable Hitachi rebuild - I had mine done locally and I don't recall the kit. Put a post up in the 80s section on rebuild kit for Hitachi and there should be a few responses.
(By the way, in my earlier post on fitting a SOHC EJ vs DOHC, I was proven wrong yesterday as a DOHC will fit - it has about 3 sheets of paper for clearance on each side though, so any significant side-to-side force would end up with a drumming sound of the engine tapping the rails!)
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Is it a factory (dealer fit) AC system - it looks like a DL so it may be a retro-fit AC. It should have two thermo fans rather than the single crank fan on the non-AC model.
I'd start with a radiator flush to make sure the engine is keeping cool. Rebuild the Hitachi, the Weber is wasted money if you are going to swap in an EJ later.
Then go to a auto electrician and get the AC refilled, check the fast idle circuit for the AC is wired up correctly (especially if the AC isn't factory/dealer installed). Make sure BOTH fans run when the AC is on.
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Oops, I forgot to take photos. They are all gone now. Hopefully one of the new owners will take some photos of the install.
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+1 on the airbox, I'm still playing around with a factory-looking solution. I would love to get a slimline spare tyre back under the hood.
I have a thermo-fan fitted that clears the radiator / engine by the tiniest amount, I'll see if I can find the details. Pretty sure it's a Brown Davis. Speco make some nice ones in slimline too but they are exxy. I couldn't go front-mount fan b/c I have AC.
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Long term plans - are you likely to keep it for a few years ? An EJ upgrade will cost at least a few thousand dollars.
The EA81 doesn't have a lot of headroom in terms of power (and finding things like the twin-carb setup is just about impossible now). If you are happy with the power available, a rebuild on the EA81 should be very cheap and easy to do.
If you decide to go EJ, buy a cheap Liberty / Impreza / Forester (make sure it's a SOHC, the DOHC won't fit without cutting the rails) and change over pretty much everything in terms of engine (gearbox is optional in whether you go full EJ or with adaptor plate and stick with your current box - if it's the original 4 speed you will just about need to replace it with either an EJ or a L-series box).
Rough costs (in AUD):
Donor vehicle - $300-500
Gearbox adaptor plate : $200
Rebuild EJ engine - $600-1000 (depending on how much you do yourself and the quality of parts, if you just did a top end it would be quite a bit less but the downside of an EJ in a Brumby is it's a tight fit so you don't want to have to pull it out again when a welsh plug, mains bearing or similar goes). Most donor cars will come with EJ engines that have 200k km's or more and are due for a rebuild.
XT6 rear hubs : $340 (PM me to go on the list for the next batch)
Loom cut-down : $300 (if you can do it yourself you'll save most of that)
Plus labour from your mechanic (not a small job all up)
Above all for an EJ retrofit, start with a plan of exactly what you want to do. Every mechanic I've spoken to who has done an EJ install swears they wouldn't do them again because of the number of changes people make during the build (scope creep)...
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Hey Shannon, how did you space your WRX wheels out ? They look good filling in the guards compared to the usual sunken in 5 stud on MY's...
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Linkage adjustment between 4wd hi and 4wd lo may be the solution. I have had the same feeling of "dragging an anchor" when the vehicle wasn't correctly in 4wd hi.
(I am running a Loyale 5 speed box in a Brumby (BRAT), but the same issue could apply).
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I like the EJ20 label idea
I have a damaged EJ20 block I could cut the label off...I took the EJ202 block down to the machine shop today, they said there isn't enough material for EJ22 sleeves and their recommendation is Darton sleeves which "only" go to 96mm (instead of 96.9). So with the EJ25 crank I should get 2.28L which isn't quite what I was aiming for but isn't a bad step up. Waiting on prices ATM.
Have also sent a message out to Darton to ask if they support using EJ22 sleeves in an EJ20 block (they go from 97 up to 100mm)...
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Once you have cut it up and re-welded it get it professionally gal or zinc plated. Make sure you can show the plater that it has been apart and chemically treated (they won't plate anything that has petrol residue).
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Thanks for the feedback gents. I thought the ECU might be able to handle it, but good to get some feedback. On the phase 1 and phase 2, as long as I keep the heads to suit the intake (or vice-versa) it should all be lego (I am told there is a unique EJ25 phase 2 that ISN'T interchangeable with anything else in the mid -00's era but I don't have the details...once I was told it didn't apply to EJ20 I didn't really worry
)On the liners - I'm pretty confident there will be enough material. The engine builder/machinist believed it would all be fine but I do have to take the block down before he will know for sure. I am trying to avoid Darton wet sleeves due to higher cost (both in the sleeves themselves, plus the machining cost basically doubles).
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I am thinking about a short block-up rebuild of a EJ20 SOHC for my Brumby (BRAT). The reason for using a EJ20 block is simple - it is within the 10% requirements that avoid an engineering certificate locally (Vic, AUS). So please, no responses of "Go EJ22"... Also, DOHC is out for the same reason (requires cutting the rails, which is an engineering certificate). And ditto turbo.
I am currently running a (phase 1) EJ20J (ex-1998 Forester, early year) in my Brumby, and have read the best (in terms of factory performance) SOHC option is the BL-BP Liberty/Legacy from 2003+, which has a revised intake and heads for better flow. I have been able to obtain a suitable intake and heads for the grand sum of $50, and will have the heads hardness tested and then machined flat (with some mild porting if worthwhile).
I have also obtained a complete long engine (phase 2) EJ202, which will be the basis of my build ($10 due to spun big end bearing). And I have a line on a complete EJ25 (phase 2) with (surprise!) a blown HG.
I have been quoted "around" $600 to machine out the existing EJ20 liners and replace with EJ22 liners. An EJ25 crank will drop straight in (as long as it's the same phase 2 model), and I believe using the stock EJ25 rods will also work - which means only custom pistons (and I would need new pistons for the EJ22 bore anyway).
Externally everything will be EJ20, and as I am using all phase 2 EJ20 block and heads and intake it will all go together (although there is no reason that I know of why I couldn't use the EJ20J block with the EJ202 heads and intake - the only reason I am using the EJ202 block is it minimises downtime and I can then sell the EJ20J as a complete running engine).
The questions I have are,
1. Any obvious issues with the above proposal.
2. Can I use my existing cut-down EJ20J wiring, and adapt it to the EJ202 intake ?
3. As I am using EJ20 SOHC cams, which are not exactly common in the US, would Delta be able to grind them (I am thinking the "1000" grind, which is street version no CELs) ?
4. Will the EJ20 intake be sufficient in terms of flow to support a 2.35L (I know plenty of US guys have fitted EJ20 heads to EJ25's because of the EJ25's HG reputation, but I don't know if they have used a matching intake or have used an EJ22 or kept their original EJ25 intake ?
5. Will the factory ECU handle this, or do I need to go aftermarket (and if so, which brand would be suggested).
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Hi all,
As a final(?) update on this thread, I'd like to thank those members who have purchased a set and if there is anyone I missed please contact me as I still have 3 sets (all with studs) left (pending responses from those below).
Confirmed with sets:
US : Crazyeights (Jeff) & carfreak85 (Galen) - delivered to Jeff last week
AUS : Callummcfetto (Callum) & ANIM_Hooneru (Owen) - shipped last week
AUS : turbo-brumby (Gareth) - delivered this morning.
AUS : grumpybrumby (Simon) and ausmattw (Matt) - awaiting payment
Pending:
AUS : Bantum / Elfreddo (Bennie) / LShep351 - all waiting on reply
Once I get confirmation I'll put up a FS post for the next batch in the FS section here.
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Legacy is the standard ride height, like a generic station wagon.
Outback is the lifted height version, runs about 2" higher. If you need it for your location, go for the Outback but otherwise you're just paying a premium for additional weight and worse handling.
From Gary's comments, if it was all done at a shop you're looking at $2k of parts & labour on a $2k vehicle that will be worth $2k once you've invested those repairs. I'd always take a rust-free car over a car needing mechanical work, but this doesn't look like a good deal.
EJ20 SOHC build (bore & stroke to 2.35L)
in Subaru Retrofitting
Posted · Edited by dfoyl
Some pictures for anyone interested in the differences in blocks :
From left to right, EJ205, EJ202 and EJ252.
The EJ202 shows it is weaker here :
The EJ205 shares the thicker sidewall support with the EJ252 :