mtskibum16

Ok so my 92 Loyale was running great back in February when I parked her. She sat a month or so then I started it and dove it with no problems. Well today after a few more months sitting, the car fired right up, idled (rough) a few moments then died. I repeated this process a number of times and it would stay running slightly longer if I brought the revs up a bit. After sitting for about a half hour it won't start at all. Pulled the fuel line, and when I put the key to "on" it pumps some fuel (few squirts) then nothing when cranking, then another squirt when you stop cranking. So I'm guessing this is a fuel (pump) problem. Where is it on these and how can I test it? Anything else that could be causing the problem? Thanks!

IIRC I torqued it to the spec in the manual. I might be making that up though..... . Don't remember. So just to see I tested my other "bad" one and it shows 500 kohms. What's the spec - I thought they'd short.

So what would the 325 mean then? That's the code I'm getting after putting the car back together after headgasket replacement and it's definitely running like the sensor is bad (the last one I fixed had a bad knock sensor and felt the same....kind of sluggish when accelerating). So do I just need to change the knock sensor?

I ended up inspecting the ports on the block as good as I could, then sprayed brake fluid down through them with the oil filter off. Maybe if there was anything else in the lines that would help dislodge it - I don't know. Anyways, bolted on the freshly machined/pressure tested heads and installed the cams on the passenger side. I still need 3 lifter shims for the other head then I'll get that side back together. The oil pump isn't leaking, do you really think it's necessary to reseal it?

I know this is old but I have an update.... Well the other car I was fixing is long gone, and I just starting pulling the motor with the seized cam apart. There was some RTV (gray) blocking the oil port in the cam journal and the said RTV was spread over the journal surface - apparently RTV isn't a good lubricant! So I have new heads ready to go on this block, but I'm wondering if I should check the oil ports for more blockage or clean them out and if so how. Also, where would this RTV have come from? Possibly from an oil pump install with too much RTV used? I can see to the back or the oil feed port in the block and it's clear. Is there any chance this was the only glob of RTV and I won't need to worry about it or should I be concerned there is more in the system? Thanks for your help. I was hoping to get the heads on today but I think I'll wait for some responses.

john - Yeah, calling the shop today after work. moneypit - one gasket is still in the wrapper so I'd only need one. I think I will get another though. Well I thought they were M10 too but they're likw 10.8x mm OD on the threads or something like that. I'll double check but they were a larger diameter than some M10x1.5 bolts I had.

Well, I've been busy the last couple weeks and haven't made much progress. I did find out that NO ONE carries a M11x1.25 Helicoil kit and I don't even think they make them any more. There are some available online however. BUT, I measured the tap and install tool on a 12mm kit and I think the tap will be too short without some sort of extention which could be a problem iteself if it's wider than the couterbore in the block. Also, the coils are only 16mm which seems short compared to the 45mm stock thread length. Helicoil does make "Head Bolt Kits" with extended reach tools and 33mm coils but not in M11x1.25. I've still haven't talked to a machine shop, but I'd like to be able to fix these myself incase I run into any more of them. This might be my only option though to fix this block. In the mean time though, I think I'm just going to use the extra block I have to get this car running. Now my next concern - I had decided it would be fine to reuse the headgasket after partial compression while attempting the first install since the gasket hadn't been fully compressed, the fact that the bolts are untightened before retightened, and the fact that the mating surface would be exactly the same the next time around once the bolt was fixed. So, that being said do you guys think it would matter if I use a different block? It won't be the exact same mating surface, but the gasket still hasn't been fully compressed. So, reuse gasket or get a new one?

I'm wondering if the taps/install tool from these kits are long enough to get down into the block. It's around 4" to the bottom of the threads in the block. Scott, 2.5x the diameter would be great. The problem is the standard around town seems to be the 1x diameter which seems too short. It looks like I'm going to have to order something anyways. There is no M11x1.25 around town. I think I'm going to use my other block and deal with later. I definitely used/will use oil on the threads and washers.

Well, I over analyze everything (mechanical engineer ) and I've done some research and based on the parent material (aluminum), the bolt strength, and the Heli-coil selection guide, it looks like I need their insert that is 2-3 times the nominal bolt diameter (20-30mm) to match the strength of the holes' thread to the ultimate strength of the bolt. Since the final torque on the bolt is no where near reaching the ultimate strength of the bolt I think the 15mm insert would be fine. However, I'm going to try and find a 20 or 30mm length one.

I've never used them so I wasn't sure if you could stack them or not. It makes sense that you could since they will be "timed" by the threads the helicoil is going in to. Has anyone done that? Thread pitch? Need to run to the store I guess.

Qman - How long were the helicoil inserts you used? The ones my local store carry are only 15mm long (.59"). I measured the stock length of threads and they're 44.1mm (1.74"). I don't have a thread gauge. Does anyone know off the top of their head what pitch the head bolts are? I'll take the bolt with me tomorrow if need be.

Just thought of something and thought I'd throw it out there. I think the gasket can be reused without issue. If you recall, the torque sequence is 22 ft-lbs, then 51, then back off 180 degrees, then 180 degrees again, then torque to 11/25 (or something like that), then 90 degrees then 90 again. So after a torque to 51 ft-lbs you release the tension back to near zero (or at least under 11 ft-lbs) before you torque again. This leads me to believe that the gaskets are designed to be compressed then released then compressed again and that they are reusable at least to the point that final torque is reached. Thoughts?

I had this same problem a few months ago. I was able to hammer a 12pt 12mm (I think) socket on to the bolt. It started slipping a couple times so I'd stop and hammer it on again. Then with very steady and slow pressure I got it to break loose. I know this is old, but I just thought I'd add this to the thread - maybe it will be usefull for people searching in the future.

It seems reasonable that since the gasket is going back in the same exact spot, on the same exact mating surfaces, and was never fully compressed that it should be fine. However, I would hate to have to redo this because I skimped on a $50 part. It just seems logical that it would be fine though.

Thanks for the comments guys. Qman, it's good to hear from someone that has done it. That's crazy that you had 5 pull out! So did you just use the spring type helicoil insert? I thought the gasket would be fine to since I never fully torqued it. I'd hate to have to go buy another one when this is brand new! eppoh - It's a 98 LGT wagon but I'm pretty sure it's a 97 MY motor. So you mean there are threads, then a space, then more threads etc? Either way, it doesn't matter now since I don't have any threads left After doing a little research yesterday I'm feeling pretty good about the helicoil. I just want to make sure I get it drilled/tapped square to the block! Since I only have to drill out a little bit of metal and there's already a hole I'm sure it will be easy to drill straight. Anyone else have an idea on the gasket?

Hey guys. Well, the title says most of it. I was installing my newly surfaced/pressure tested heads. I had put oil on the threads and washer surface and torqued each bolt to 22 ft-lbs in the proper sequence. I "warmed up" my torque wrench on 51 ft-lbs on a wheel lugnut to make sure it was clicking correctly. Started turning the first bolt to torque it to 51. It felt like I should be getting pretty close but no click. Stopped and went back to the wheel and it clicked perfect. Went back to the head and turned it about 45 more degrees and the threads gave!!! I'm not sure what could have caused this. The most likely thing I can figure is that I had the block at 45 degrees on the engine stand and maybe I had the wrench out of square enough the it didn't click properly. Maybe the threads were weak from being over tightened in the past, etc....really I don't know. All I'm wondering now is how do I fix this? One recommendation I got was to use a helicoil. I've never used this product but I know lots of people have. Anyone have any other thoughts? I'm going to ask the machine shop tomorrow. Has anyone heard of this happening before? Seems strange as I couldn't have been much over 51. Also, the head gasket should be fine to use still right? As I said all bolts were to 22 ft-lbs and then one to 51+ ft-lbs. Is it still fine to use after I fix the threads? Thanks for the help!!!

We have a winner! It was the knock sensor. Pulled the code tonight and got a P0325. Took the sensor off and it read 125 kohms (400-700 kohms is spec for a good one). Pulled the knock sensor off the engine I took out of the car and it was good (525 kohms). I was surprised to see it had a different plastic connector - it was from a 97 and the other from a 96. Just swapped the connectors and hooked it up. Cleared the code, started the car and no CEL. Took it for a drive and all is well!!! YAY! I'm still really surprised how bad the knock sensor made the car run! I mean it was REALLY bad. Anyways, thanks for the help guys! You rock! It will be on Craig's List soon

Well it threw a CEL last night. I don't have a code reader but I'll borrow one tonight and see what I get. Last night I took all the plug wires off and blew out the sparkplug wells and also blew out a lot of electrical connectors. No help. Doing the same thing....the car will aventually get going up to speed but I really have to tap dance on the throttle. I looked around the engine bay and can't find any vacuum lines off, not that that means there aren't any off....I just couldn't find one.

The engine never stopped, just bogged down to a near full stall, then would kind of catch again for a second, then bog again. Light slow throttle would get it going at town speeds but not smoothly really.

You rock! Thanks. I probably have another one on the engine I took out. I'll also dry all the ignition system off good tonight and maybe a bit-o WD40 and see if that helps.

I'll check the spark plug wells. Didn't really even think about that since they're horizontal and kind of tucked away. Not sure if it would idle fine if that was the problem but who knows. Rooster2: I've had that happen before too in previous cars and it does feel a lot like that but I haven't gotten any new gas durring this whole process and the car is stored inside a garage - although I did hand wash it too but if it can't handle that I think I have other problems Thanks for the ideas and keep them coming! Edit: Just saw bheinen74's post Where is the knock sensor located on these? What would I check for to see if it's bad? What about inspection for the MAF? I've been thinking it is probably some sensor. I already had a bad coolant temperature gauge sensor. I tried searching for washing engine bay and didn't get much luck. I'll try again though. Thanks for the tip.

Yeah...I didn't see how it could have been transmission either. The engine was washed down the night before this happened so I doubt steam also. I let it idle for quite a while last night after the problem and it idles and revs fine while in park with no apparent problem. It only shows up when the engine is under load.

Ok guys. I've been doing an engine swap on a 97 OBW. Everything went in good and I had driven it maybe 25 miles just checking things out and absolutely NO problems with the engine but had minor torque bind. So, I did a transmission flush by changing the tranny fluid 3 times and driving in between each to circulate the fluid. The torque bind disapeered during the drives and the car was running well. On the last fluid change I included a half bottle of transmisison additive that was recommended by a few different people for torque bind. It called for just under a bottle and I used about half. I can't remember for the life of me if I drove it around after the last flush but I'm guessing I did. Came home and washed the engine bay with a garden hose (engine was cooled down) and engine degreaser. I made sure not to concentrate the water on an electrical parts but didn't cover anything. So, went home last night for a drive and it started fine and pulled out of my garage fine but when I went to go forward it kind of surged and stuttered and acted like it was stalling. I was easy on the gas and continued on. As I would try to accelerate it would sort of stall (not die) and started blowing whiteish smoke out the back (smoke/exhaust didn't smell like burning coolant). It was strange as it almost felt like the transmission was slipping, but then it was the engine stalling out and puking the smoke out the exhaust. Also kind of felt like if you have your e-brake on part way and it kind of bogs down the engine. Any ideas? So in summary, the car was fine until I did two things in a row....change the tranny fluid the last time and wash the engine bay so I'd assume one of those two things is a cause of the issue.

It's alive!!! Got it up and running over the weekend. No real problems and it sounds great. Thanks for everyone's help!

Hey thanks guys. Good stuff! I'll be back if something goes wrong!