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samneric

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    '98 OBW EJ25D replaced HGs suspected fail - what now?

    in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX

    Posted

    Resurfaced a 1981 ea81 head yesterday and it had exact failure ponts and the newer head exactly the same places were low on head and gasket had been moveing vibrateing and had worn the head in lower oil return ports funny same problem from day one we have been debating weather a heat risistant spacer on exhaust whould help to keep exhuast heat away from headgasket.

     

    Interesting.....

    '98 OBW EJ25D replaced HGs suspected fail - what now?

    in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX

    Posted

    the heads dont warp they wear when i plane them there is low spot on bottom side of fire ring and on the lower oil return ports by exhaust the 2.2 heads cleanup at 2 thow but the 2.5 d and 2.5 1-3 all take 3-4 thow they are always bad on lower side where oil retun ports are

     

    So can I take the whole block to my machine shop for planing or do I have to take it apart into two halves?

     

    ..and with that information, can I assume that my new headgaskets are leaking at the bottom of the fire ring?

     

    Why isn't this part of all the threads I have read on doing this job?! I did a LOT of research on this before I started. Arghhh:banghead:

     

    I hope people learn from THIS particular HG job.

     

    I am going to use this car for rainy-day driving until I get some money saved up. I have a convertible that I can use in the meantime. Hopefully less use on the Subie will allow for more time before catastrophic repeat HG failure.

     

    Steve

    '98 OBW EJ25D replaced HGs suspected fail - what now?

    in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX

    Posted

    i would have the block deck tested before the heads are pressure tested as the heads are likely to be fine. EJ heads rarely crack.

     

    Is this something I do myself with a machine shop straight edge? Something where I need to take the whole block to a machine shop? Where I need to split the block and take each half to a machine shop?

     

     

    someone on another forum recently had coolant leaking through a porous portion of the head casting - visible when the exhaust manifold was removed....i would think this is a very rare failure and not likely but maybe worth a check if you got something strange going on?

     

    My guess is no only because since driving it (two weeks now), I haven't been losing coolant - only having it displaced into the overflow bottle (which I am putting back every day).

     

    do you know how badly it was previously overheated when you owned it?

     

    Ok - we need to define badly. My impression of badly is: needle at or above the two max lines on the gauge. When I drove it prior to repair, I was concious of overheating but couldn't do much when it did. So I always made sure the gauge stayed below the two max marks - it came close but didn't go into that max range. When it did raise I never let it stay raised for more than 1/2 a mile before stopping and let it cool down. The needle stayed on 3/4 for a few miles though during the several occasions it started to overheat.

     

    I hope this clarifies it a little.

     

    do you know how badly it was previously overheated when you owned it?

    or if the headgsaket were every replaced before you owned it (which would almost confirm a prior overheating condition)?

     

    The headgaskets I took out were the black coating material kind which had obviously eroded over time. I got the car at about 215k miles and have no idea how it was driven prior. It may have been overheated before but the HG symptoms were not that bad when I first bought it - drove it 500 miles at least without overheating.

     

    What are the symptoms of excessive overheating in its life? My Subaru dealer mechanic only mentioned cylinder wall slippage, not warping of any kind - he said the heads are too small to warp.

     

    There is no excessive knocking so I assume the bearings are fairly decent.

     

    Steve

    '98 OBW EJ25D replaced HGs suspected fail - what now?

    in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX

    Posted · Edited by samneric

    Hi all,

     

    I have decided to try and trouble shoot my recent Headgasket repair for the good of anyone else who wants to do it themselves. My leasons learned can be added to the knowledge already out there.

     

    So, in that vain, lets start with answers to questions that followed when asking the question "what now?" in another thread:

     

     

    *what* Subaru gasket did you use? if it's a SOHC Ej25 and you installed the Subaru supplied gasket - that's the same gasket the car came with - the same gasket that failed the first time. i would have used Subaru's turbo gasket - it's a direct swap and those motors don't have headgasket issues, it's an MLS gasket. if it's a DOHC EJ25 you should use the 610 gasket (last three digits of the part number) - an updated gasket. no point in reinstalling the same gasket that's prone to failure to begin with...though it should hold longer that it appears yours might have.

     

    i have heard of the cylinder sleeves walking due to prior overheats...i'm not sure how to test that but it would be nice to make sure that's not the case for you since that's essentially not properly repairable.

     

    wonder how often Ivansimports has seen that - have you? i haven't yet but other folks that do tons of Subaru's (GD) has.

     

    I bought the Gasket and Seal kit for my year and model (98 Outback Wagon). The part number for this set is 10105AA401.

     

    This gasket set contained two Subaru head gaskets. Their part number is 11044AA610. These are multi-layered gaskets that look like the pictures I have seen elsewhere on here for the replacement HGs.

     

    I asked my local Subaru dealer mechanic his thoughts on the symptons and he mentioned the "cylinder sleeve walking" that you GG mentioned. He also said it is very rare.

     

    Symptoms after HG replace: Bubbles in overflow tank. Coolant being pushed out of rad. The overflow bottle doesn't fill up yet - the level raises about 4-5 inches. I have been using a turkey baster to put the water back in the rad after every trip of 20 miles.

     

    So my plan is to pull the heads off again and have their flatness tested with a machine shop straight edge.

    Then I will test the block surfaces with the straight edge.

    Then I will have the heads pressure tested this time :rolleyes:

     

    I guess I will take it from there.

     

    previous threads on the HG replacement:

     

    After: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=133799

    During: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=132115

    Before: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=124451

     

     

    Steve

    EJ22 head gasket replacement question

    in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX

    Posted

    i have seen 25 dead engines cause of rotery tools takeing to mutch material off and the abrasives find there way into the oil and wipe berrings i have seen as mutch as 6 thow ground off when I put the block halfs on the planer you can realy see the damage mostly around the barrels on the lower side. Roto disks are for cast only and even then they are engine killers

     

    So in my case where I used them and put it back together to find a bad seal, what do I do now?

     

    I was planning on pulling the heads off again, getting them pressure tested and checking their and the block's flatness with a machine shop straight edge.

     

    If the block is out - what then? Would have I have to split the block, pull the pistons out and have the block shaved? Would that affect the piston clearance? Could I do it without having the block split?!

     

    I definately want to know why my job failed but then need to know what to do about it.....

     

    Steve

    EJ22 head gasket replacement question

    in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX

    Posted

    Thiss will get you guys going i use avinoinic form a gasket on evry headgasket i do always not to help it seal witch it do's but to insalate the gasket from the heat and vibrations so it holds up the gasket materials cant hold up to the vibrations and will tear the coatings off. I will never put a subaru headgasket on dry ever have done more than 60 headgasket jobs thiss year and all no comebacks or problems. But have had to redo many that were poorly done and headgaskets failed right after being done

     

    Oooo - that sounds like it might be my experience :(

     

    Steve

    HG job finished :) Wont start :( - EDIT - Will Start :) Day 3 Update

    in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX

    Posted

    Well that explains it! You did it out of order! It's supposed to be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. :-p

     

    3..1..6

    5..2..4

     

    [/sarcasm]

    In all seriousness, that is the order according to the FSM.

     

     

    I'd still love to blame air in the system, or a faulty thermostat. Speaking of, have you tried running it without the thermostat? Can't hurt. 20-30 minutes for gits and shiggles right?

     

    I haven't tried removing the t-stat but I'm not sure what that will achieve? If I have bubbles and water is getting pushed out into the overflow bottle how can it be involved?

     

    My latest purchase was a turkey baster so I can periodically transfer the water BACK from the overflow bottle into the radiator :brow:

     

    Steve

    HG job finished :) Wont start :( - EDIT - Will Start :) Day 3 Update

    in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX

    Posted

    I know you said you followed the haynes manual don't feel bad for me asking but did you tighten the bolts in the right order? Have you tried driving with the AC on yet? I found before doing my HG that was the quickest way to get it to overheat because the radiator has to deal with more extra heat.

     

    Sure - I live in New Orleans - the A/C went on a month ago! :)

     

    We followed the Haynes instructions precisely.

     

    I have the order memorized.... hang on 2, 5, 1, 6, 4, 3 if i'm not mistaken lol.

     

    Steve

    HG job finished :) Wont start :( - EDIT - Will Start :) Day 3 Update

    in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX

    Posted

    What misfire problem and what about the bubbles in the coolant??:confused:

    I feel like someone changed the channel when I went to the refrigerator!

    :popcorn:

     

    Now now BB - we wouldn't want you run out of popcorn, would we? lol

     

    I mentioned the bubbles on page 2 of the thread and the misfire page 3.

     

    I didn't mention it on here but the misfire got worse. Anything over 3k rpm and it would misfire. This happened around 70 mph. So I drove it under that speed.

     

    On Friday I decided to try the high rpms on a cold engine and it got worse. Even after dropping down the rpms the engine would cut out :eek: I hope you didn't spit out your popcorn in horror here!) lol

     

    Luckily I got it home ok. Sat was ok but the cut out happened while driving - managed to bump start it because I had driving about 30mph.

     

    Came to start it today - no go :mad:.

     

    I had since read one of GD's answers on misfiring which mentioned the crank sensor's involvement. I decided - what the hell, I'll see if it has come loose. It had!!! :clap:... look at this thread - more emotional mood swings than a drunken celebrity :)

     

    Anyway - the plastic hook that keeps the plug on the sensor must have broken off so I'll need some way of keeping it on long term. Good news is... it still drives :headbang:

     

    Still have the bubbles from page 2 though so I'll have to wait and see myself .. :popcorn:

     

    Steve

    HG job finished :) Wont start :( - EDIT - Will Start :) Day 3 Update

    in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX

    Posted

    Well... shucks. :(

    I suppose you could pull the plugs and try to confirm.

    Did you try the combustion gas test again?

     

    Time for a 2.2 swap.

     

    I'm gonna do the gas test tonight when I get home. The kit is there and I didn't want to stick the test tube into my radiator in the middle of the company car-park :)

     

    Lesson learned in doing the HG job - buy a machine-shop straight edge and *make sure* both heads and block are perfectly flat. This is the only variable because I followed all other instructions exactly.

     

    I would recommend everyone do this on a HG replacement - why put it back together and wing-it on potential warpage???

     

    I like the 2.5 so I'm gonna buy a JDM and swap my recon-heads and intake onto it.

     

    At least I have a second car (which I can't drive in the rain) and the subie will drive in a limited fashion until I can save for the new block.

     

    Steve

     

     

     

    Steve

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