mrjim
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Everything posted by mrjim
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Thanks! I'm not sure how near in the future I'll be able to work on this but when I do, I'll try to remember to post some pics. -
Don't suppose anybody's got a link to the 2000 OBS gear ratios? If not I'll just do some searching tonight. Thanks again for the help guys!
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Right. Definitely easier with a PIC.
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Hey nice, thanks for the link.
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Easy to do with pen and paper and a calculator but harder to do with a circuit (unless I program a processor). I'd need to know each of the 6 gear ratios (1-5 + the final drive). I could use a PIC I suppose but if I didn't I'd need a circuit to take the tach and speed as inputs to calcualte the ratio then compare it to each of the actual ratios... Sounds like a proc chip is the way to go then.
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I think nixie tubes are actually more like a typical lightbulb with a heated coil providing the light but I'm not sure what the source voltage has to be. Nevermind, I don't know what I'm talking about. lol But yeah, I'll definitely look into what all's got to be done before juming in too far. Thanks for the help everyone.
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My work is scrapping an old bridge that's got some nixie tubes in it that I'm going to salvage. I've never built anything with nixie tubes yet either but I think they look super sweet. They remind me a lot of cold war era "high tech" equipment. I figured since so many of the newer semi-auto cars have the 7 seg display of gear, it would be cool to do the same thing in my OBS but with some retro flare.
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Haha nice. Is that a pic of you? When was this taken?
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The signal off the back of the tach sounds like a good way to go. So if there's a wire for the tach signal I'm guessing there's also one for the speed? If so it looks like I'd have to go about it like 1 Lucky Texan said. I'll have to pull out the manual I used when I swapped out the engine. I know it had wiring diagrams in there. On second thought it might even be easier to set up an array of 6 proc sensors under the shifter boot and determine gear from that. v v v 1 3 5 > |__|__| > (neutral) > | | | 2 4 R (Planning on using 0 for Neutral and 9 for reverse)
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"what kind of circuit for the tach?" Homebrew. I've got some LED arrays that I've used in the past with a VU meter (volume level indicator) for the sound system and would like to reuse them but base it on the tach instead of the sound system. For the gear I was going to do another "homebrew" circuit and stick a nixie tube somewhere in the dash or center console to indicate the gear. What you say about the speed and tach makes sence but would require a circuit a bit more compliated than I had first intended. <---- Nixie tubes (in case you didn't know what they are)
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I've got a couple of strange questions. I've got a 2000 OBS w/ standard transmission and was wondering if there is a sensor telling the computer what gear the car is in. I was thinking it's pretty unlikely but was just curious. If so is it possible to get this information from the computer to an external circuit? Does the computer read the tach? Again, if so is it possible to get this info from the computer to an external circuit? Thanks in advance. Jimbo
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Update: Got the sprockets swapped out and everything back together. It runs! Wow that new clutch is grabby. Thanks again to everyone for your help, I feel SO dumb that I didn't even compare the sprockets on the engines when they were both out after all the warnings you had given me. Guess I just thought the guy who sold me the engine knew what I was talking about and took care of it (said it would be no problem). Anyways, now that it's running and everything I've found that I probably need a new battery as well. I hooked it up to a 15A charger last night before bed and the garage smelt like rotten eggs this morning and the charge current was still around max. I could also hear the battery sizzling. Also johnceggleston, I did indeed keep the original intake. From all the pictures I've seen in the shop manual, it looks like the intake on the EJ25 and EJ22 are the same though. I think you're right about the ECU not knowing that a different engine is present. Again, I'm not 100% understanding how the displacement doesn't matter (since I'd think a larger cylinder would also need more fuel and air) but from what Fairtax4me has said it sounds like the ECU uses sensors to control the amount of fuel and air. So I'm guessing it adjusts itself automatically based on fuel, air and exhaust pressures or flow rates (whatever the cylinder size) given that the injectors and intake can supply enough.
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Great, thanks for your help and the explanation. I've pulled a few things back out and am about to swap the sprockets. I put the car in gear to hold the crank position and then removed the belt. I realize now that I probably should have loosened the cam sprocket bolt before taking the belt off though. The shop manual assumes I've got this special fork/breaker-bar tool to hold it in place while removing the bolt. Any recommendations as to what else I can (or should) use to get it off?
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I guess I'm still having trouble understanding why displacement doesn't matter with the ECU. Shouldn't you be injecting more fuel into a larger displacement engine? If your volume is greater but the amount of fuel is the same, it seems to me like you'd have less power. Also I see what you're saying about the sprockets but it seems a little odd to me that the shop manual in the screen shot I posted shows one that looks exactly like my old one (and says it's california spec) and the other looks exactly like the new one (and says it's non-california spec). Did the change you're talking about originate in california? And get adopted into the rest of the line later? I've noticed this in a couple of other places too. It shows 2 different intakes (one cal, one not), and 2 different throttle bodies (again, cal and not cal). My intake matches the cal intake but my throttle body matches the non cal. Also, I'm not sure this makes a difference but the car was originally sold new in South Dakota. Would seem a little odd to me that a new California spec car be sold in SD. Edit: I realize California has stricter emission standards so this is why I was/am wondering if the change was first implemented there. Edit #2: Does this also mean the crank sprocket on the new engine is the older model crank sprocket?
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Okay, I think I've found the problem. And it's not something simple. Look at this picture I snapped of the manual. http://i.imgur.com/01YtESt.jpg It's not just a possible difference of 2200cc vs 2500cc sprockets. It's a difference of calif. vs non calif. crank sprockets. Guess what? My old engine looks like the calif. one and the picture of the new engine looks like the other. New: http://i.imgur.com/FN44v2M.jpg Old: http://i.imgur.com/CA87d9N.jpg This means we have to tear it down that far, swap them, realign the timing belt, and put it all back together. Ouch. I guess that's what I get for assuming the right sprockets came with the engine. ESPECIALLY after all the warnings you guys gave me about it. You'd think I would have double checked! It would have been SO easy to check when I had both engines out too. Please let me know for sure if you agree with my conclusion. Also, I'm guessing since the #of ticks is so different, the computers are different as well. Will I have a problem with the EJ22 california spec sprocket and computer on the EJ25 engine? Would it be easier to try and find a non cal spec computer and leave the sprockets that are already on there?
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Another update: We connected one of the old spark plugs and wires to the ignition coil and did see a spark. We also connected an led to one of the fuel injector plugs and it flashed when trying to start. So there's gas in the fuel lines and the injectors and spark plugs are firing. I'm pretty much beside myself as to why it would not be starting.
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Also the EJ22 engine cam sprocket has 2 notches so it must be the new type as well.
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I verified that both engine's crank sprokets have 24 teeth. I'm guessing this means the cam sprokets are the same as well. The shop also verified that they test all engines before sending them out so unless just the cam sprocket is different, the engine is definitely not the problem. I pulled plug wire #1 and set it very close to the #1 connector on the ignition coil and tried to start. No arc. So this means we are definitely not getting a spark. I checked the resistance between 1&2 and 3&4 and both read 12.6 Kohms (the shop manual I've been using said they should read around 12.8K so I think I'm good there). I did note however that #2 was darker looking than the other 3 connection points. I don't think this would be why I didn't see an arc on #1 though. I guess I'll just have to start following wire paths back from there then... Any other suggestions in light of this new information?
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I double checked with the shop that sent me the new engine and he said that my EJ22 cam pulley and the EJ251 cam pulley are the same. He suggested that I pull spark plug wire #1 from the coil pack and lay it close to the connection and try to start again. Whether it arcs or not should tell us if we're getting a spark.
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So, the engine's in and everything is hooked up. We tried to start it last night and the engine cranks but doesn't fire. Not even a sputter. The spark plugs and wires are new. I'm pretty sure fuel is reaching the injectors. We pulled the fuel line that leads into the engine (right after the fuel filter) and gas came spurting out, so there's definitely fuel pressure. We disconnected and reconnected all the wiring harness plugs. We double checked to see that no vacuum hoses had been forgotten. Tried both pumping the throttle and holding it half way in while attempting to start. Pretty sure the timing is right. It came already assembled on the new engine. http://i.imgur.com/FN44v2M.jpg Any other thoughts? Is there a fuse or circuit breaker I need to check, replace, or reset?
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Update: I found out that the old engine may be fine. The lower driver's side idler had blown its bearings and was grinding against a bolt above it (the noise we heard when trying to start the engine at the mechanic's shop). This caused the timing on the passenger side to be out by as much as 180 degrees it looks like. I am sure of this though: the car was not driven or even run at all really after the idler totally gave out (because it happened at the shop). I'm also sure the timing didn't get off until it blew. That means the shop has only tried to start it a couple times since the timing has been off. I'm thinking this is little enough that the piston rods and valves should be okay. Thoughts? The unfortunate thing is that I didn't get the old engine torn down enough to find this out until I had already bought the new engine, flywheel and clutch.
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Just an update: The EJ22 engine is out. The new Sachs OEM flywheel and Exedy stage 1 clutch arrived. The re-manufactured EJ25 engine is scheduled to ship today. I'm guessing it'll arrive next week.
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Great, thanks for the help! I appreciate it. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I get further into this.
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From the looks of things the disk is very similar to the OEM one they sell. However, I do see a number of small sections with gaps between them... I think most clutches I've seen look similar to this though. http://www.exedyusa.com/store/product/images/image.jpg?src=15801 The 3 portions of their stage 2 look more like brake pads to me though. Is this what you're talking about?: http://www.exedyusa.com/multimedia/images/stage2_250.jpg Also, in regards to the fuel pump, I think I'd be more inclined to replace the fuel filter (to keep any old crud from passing through into the new engine) but I guess I don't really see why I'd replace the fuel pump if it was working fine. Thoughts?
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Okay, great. Sounds like OEM flywheel is the way to go then thanks! How about stage 1 vs OEM clutch? Edit: I've heard some say I should seriously look at replacing the fuel pump too. What's your opinion on this?