Mr.Atlantis
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Posts posted by Mr.Atlantis
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details on car?
what brand sensor?
- 2008 Outback Legacy 2.5i MT (Base model)
- 105k mi.
Not sure what other details you were curious about.
The sensor that I suspect is failing is a Denso - which I believe is the OEM brand.
Year model engine?
Sensor Brand does matter. A cheapo sensor is more likely to fail because of an internal fault/defect.
A quart of oil in 4,000 miles isn't a huge deal, but if the PCV valve is old, it's a good idea to replace it with a new Subaru PCV. A worn PCV valve can cause increased oil consumption.
I'll have to wait until later to check the exact engine model, got my 8 mo. year old son with me right now and mom's asleep. Can't really make my way to the garage just yet.
I'm willing to buy a good sensor, but which one would you suggest? I thought I got a good one the first time. Rock Auto does have a Bosch with an orange cable for about $140. I believe its the one that was on there before I changed it the first time. The Denso has a black cable.
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I just chopped enough of it off with a grinder, in order to get the socket on.
I once did that to a perfectly good sensor, replaced with an inferior over-seas part and will never forgive myself.
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I received the following 2 codes late last year:
P0030
Heated oxygen sensor heater control circuit Bank 1 Sensor 1
&
P0134
Oxygen sensor circuit no activity detected Bank 1 Sensor 1
After resetting the codes about 2 or 3 times, I replaced my Upstream O2 Sensor. No issues until just recently. Only this time I got the P0134 code alone. Either way, it's pointing me to the same O2 Sensor I just replaced. Before I purchase another, more expensive O2 Sensor - are there any other areas 'pre-upstream sensor' I should be looking in to?
Sidenote 1
When the code popped up most recently, I removed the Sensor and cleaned with a wire wheel and replaced. Checked all contacts for resistance and continuity. Everything looked good and about 2 days later the CEL went out and didn't come back for about a month (where I'm at now).
Sidenote 2
I burn a full quart of oil in between Oil changes (every 4,000 mi.). I mention this because I worry I may have the beginning signs of an internal head gasket leak (oil transfer between galleys and cylinders) which may jack up my combustion and fowl up O2 sensors. Just a thought though, I can't be sure of this as there seems to be no smoke from the rear at start up.
Regards,
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More thread inside bracket
slave should travel about 3/4 inch.
The only reason I brought up adjusting the MC pushrod is to make sure the MC piston is able to return all the way to the back of the bore. If the pushrod is adjusted so there is very little thread inside the U-bracket, that could start pushing the MC piston forward, which could cause it block the vent port in the MC. There's almost no way you'll get it to bleed properly if the vent port is blocked.
As for pedal free-play, there is no adjustment. The pushrod adjusts pedal height, which will change the pedal height at the release point of the clutch. If you adjust the pushrod to its longest point (least amount of thread in the u-bracket. This will raise the standing height of the pedal) this will allow more pedal TRAVEL, which will in turn increase slave cylinder travel by a small amount, but adjusting this too far can cause the vent port in the MC to be blocked.
There is no adjustment on the slave cylinder that I'm aware of.
Like Gloyale said, the slave cylinder pushrod should extend roughly 3/4" when the pedal is pushed down. If you have at least that much travel at the slave cylinder, the problem is not a hydraulic issue.
I re-adjusted the pin so to be sure that when the pedal is relaxed, the MC is operating as it should. I'll be re-bleeding tonight when I get home to rule out any previous adjustment errors.
I appreciate all the help you've given me thus far guys. Hopefully I can return the favor one day.
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Ok, no laughing at my diagram.
There are some questions embedded in the image which should be self explanatory.
FairTax,
When you mentioned to adjust the pin until it just slightly pulls the pedal forward, which way did you mean? (See cut-away view of 'U-bracket').
- What should the travel distance of the slave cylinder be? How far should the fork be pushed basically. I want to know so i don't over adjust it.
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Check your clutch fork/ it may be bending.
Was actually in my garage when you sent this, so I just scoped out the fork again, and no, it's not bending. The clutch fork assembly is operating as it should.
However, I did notice something. I am able to depress the slave cylinder all the way with my hand (and I'm not very strong) when all bleeders are closed. I mean, I can actually get my finger between the nipple and fork and push back. Shouldn't there be more pressure in the lines preventing me from doing this?
I should also mention that no matter how I adjust my clutch, even when it was working, the nipple that pushes on the fork would jiggle when not in use. I could actually hear it if I was at a stop if it was quiet enough. I would sometimes slightly press the clutch to make it stop, especially at drive-thru windows where it was most noticeable. This was the reason why I just replaced the master cylinder. I just did the slave cylinder about 3 months ago. I'm running out of options.
...I'm sure at this point, you guys must think I'm crazy.
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I tried the bleeding trick you mentioned. No luck. No air came out either, it was just pure fluid. I repeated the process about 10 or 15 times just to be sure.
Couldn't I just fabricate a pin identical to the one between the slave cylinder piston and the clutch fork, but about a 1/4" longer? It would solve my problem, though if it ever decides to pressurize anymore I suppose that would present a problem huh?
There doesn't seem to be any more air in the system and I can't spot any leaks. I feel as though my only options are to adjust the pin behind the pedal to it's max or make a longer pin to push fork. Sound crazy? Has this ever been done?
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Slave cylinder. This method pushes most or all of the air and fluid in the slave cylinder out through the open bleeder on the slave while you compress the piston. The the piston sucks fresh fluid through the line and pulls any air out of the line with it. That air is then expelled when you repeat the process.
1. Open bleeder
2. Press slave cylinder pushrod IN and hold
3. Close bleeder
4. Release slave cylinder pushrod
If the slave cylinder does NOT have a bleeder, its becomes a bit trickier to bleed properly. Generally you have to completely remove all of the hydraulic lines and the slave cylinder, fill the slave cylinder with fluid, point the opening upwards, attach the line loosely and pour fluid in until it trickles out around the line. Snug the line then cap the other end to keep the fluid in. Fish it all back into the car connected together and attach it to the MC. Then you can pump the slave cylinder a few times to push bubbles at the top end of the line up into the MC and hope they work their way up into the reservoir.
Well, I'm home now. I'll go give this a shot. The slave does have it's own bleeder. so this shouldn't be too hard. I'll repost my results. Thanks again!
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If the MC is adjusted too far forward the vent port in the bore may be blocked. Adjust the MC pushrod so it is pulling the pedal forward just slightly, this will ensure the MC piston is pulled all the way to the back of the bore.
Crack loose the bleed screw on the slave cylinder. Unbolt the slave cylinder from the bellhousing and hold it in your hand so you can push the pushrod by hand back into the cylinder. Open the bleed screw, push the pushrod all the way in and hold it there while you close the bleed screw. Now slowly let the pushrod back out. Do this two or three times. Check/Add fluid to the MC reservoir each time to avoid pulling air back into the MC. Bolt the slave cylinder back to the bellhousing and make sure to tighten the bleed screw down snug.
This is the best and quickest way I've found to bleed hydraulic clutches on most cars. It may help to stick a small piece of hose on the end of the bleeder and run the hose into a bottle to avoid making a mess.
Just thought, did you mean crack loose the Master Cylinder while pushing on slave in hand? Just going through the scenario in my head and it seemed logical since air is going to want to travel upwards. Or did you really mean Slave Cylinder? I'll try the way you told me the first time, I just want to be sure there wasn't a typo.
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Firewall flex isn't the issue unless its rusted out and the pedal bracket is about to shove its way through the firewall.
This could be a bad master cylinder. Check inside the boot on the pushrod for fluid.
Or it could be a cracked release fork. Common on Subarus, and tends to happen after clutch replacement
I pulled the boot back, and with a small flashlight and mirror was able to inspect the fork while I had someone inside push the pedal. Clutch release fork is fine and seems to be operating properly.
I will perform the Bench Bleed type test you mentioned.
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My 2005 Impreza with 5 speed manual sounds similar. The clutch doesn't release until the pedal is to the floor and something is squeaking when the clutch pedal is pressed (I think it's the pivot bearing on the arm that is engaged by the slave cylinder.
My clutch pedal is also lazy to come back up after you release it so I have a new slave cylinder on order.
I get that exact same noise Stevo. I also deal with the very low disengage/engage issue. Im hoping that the advice FairTax gave us on my other post fixes my problem. Basically it sounds like a bench bleed.
I should mention that nothing I've replaced thus far has actually fixed my problem yet. I replaced the Slave Cylinder, Master Cylinder, Clutch (2x in 3 months), Pilot Bearing and Throw out bearing. I even sprung for that $150 TSK, super strength Throw Out Bearing and Sleeve kit the 2nd time around. None of these things fixed the low clutch problem.
At this point, I'm ready to accept the fact that my car will never be the same again after replacing the clutch
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If the MC is adjusted too far forward the vent port in the bore may be blocked. Adjust the MC pushrod so it is pulling the pedal forward just slightly, this will ensure the MC piston is pulled all the way to the back of the bore.
Crack loose the bleed screw on the slave cylinder. Unbolt the slave cylinder from the bellhousing and hold it in your hand so you can push the pushrod by hand back into the cylinder. Open the bleed screw, push the pushrod all the way in and hold it there while you close the bleed screw. Now slowly let the pushrod back out. Do this two or three times. Check/Add fluid to the MC reservoir each time to avoid pulling air back into the MC. Bolt the slave cylinder back to the bellhousing and make sure to tighten the bleed screw down snug.
This is the best and quickest way I've found to bleed hydraulic clutches on most cars. It may help to stick a small piece of hose on the end of the bleeder and run the hose into a bottle to avoid making a mess.
So this method eliminates the whole 'buddy in the car, pushing pedal technique' huh? That's convenient. I'll give this a shot tonight when I get home. Thanks again!
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Posted twice. My mistake...
I'll be checking the Clutch fork.
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Wow, I stand corrected.
I'll peak through the rubber boot.
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Perhaps something with the main driveshaft.
Check bolts holding shaft to rear diff.
Also check for play.
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Sorry, i was just reviewing my post and realized i sound like a jerk. I apologize, i am just tying to be thorough while maintaining sanity this Sunday afternoon.
I'll try and use more
, haha's and "lol's" next time to lighten the air. -
*2008 Outback 2.5, non-turbo
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Just put a new clutch master cylinder in, and it will not regain pressure.
I adjusted the rod under the pedal just so i could make it go into gear. But i shouldn't have to do that.
Things ive done:
- New clutch (bearings and all)
- New clutch slave cylinder
- New clutch master Cylinder
- Bled system about 50 times.
- Slightly adjusted the rod in order for it to disengage it self.
It seems so simple, but this nothing like brakes, i don't care what the manual says.
There has got to be some super secret method of bleeding this thing.
P.S. its NOT leaking.
Any advice?
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Firewall flex isn't the issue unless its rusted out and the pedal bracket is about to shove its way through the firewall.
This could be a bad master cylinder. Check inside the boot on the pushrod for fluid.
Or it could be a cracked release fork. Common on Subarus, and tends to happen after clutch replacement
Ok, I'll rule out the firewall flex then. No rust on my Subaru, yet.
I just ordered a new Master Cylinder about 3 min. ago. The fork was fine when I pulled the trans a few months ago. I couldn't imagine that thing cracking (pretty solid chunk of metal), but I'll take your word for it and consider the possibility.
I should mention that I am getting a metallic spring'y noise coming from somewhere near the bell housing/slave cylinder area when I press the clutch. I just assumed it is the sound of the basket flexing while being activated by the T/O bearing.
I'll replace the Master Cylinder and post back to share my experience.
Thanks again for the advice,
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...Also, no visable leaks and no sign of fluid loss from reservoir.
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My clutch seems to be disengaging lower and lower to the floor every day.
- System has been bled (several times)
- New slave cylinder
- New clutch and bearings
Any adjustments I make under the pedal only seem to be temporary. Always reverts very low.
I've heard issues reported on other makes and models of the firewall flexing. My firewall IS in fact flexing slightly when I push on clutch pedal. Is there a support bracket that can be modified/replaced in order to correct this? Assuming this is the issue of course.
Regards,
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I now have 93,000 mi. on my Outback and the TSK1 has held up so far. I would like to add that after pulling the Transmission, my car has never driven quite the same. Though, there could be another underlying issue that I have yet to notice.
Either way, my review:
- TSK1 Worked fine and bearing seems to be made of a stronger material.
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Go back and check your work on the calipers. 199 this car is old enough to need front end work. A bad bushing can cause this.
Triple checked my work on that. It was fine.
Turned out to be the passenger side control arm bushings. I replaced the control arm / lower ball joint assembly and it immediately fixed the problem.
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Any suggestions?
P0030 Upstream O2 Sensor keeps failing...
in 1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX
Posted
Thank you everyone for your help! I will begin diagnostics ASAP.