Fairtax4me Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 (edited) So I was screwing around under the hood of the scubado tonight. Adjusted the headlights a bit then as I walked back to the drivers door to turn the engine off, I heard the unmistakable sound of air. Vacuum leak! But where? I'm looking, listening, wiggling hoses arouhd with my hand to see if anything changes. Finally I decide that the sound is coming from the area of the Evap. purge solenoid. I pull the hose off the intake and stick my finger over the nipple, noise stops. I put the hose back, noise returns. I pull the hose off the solenoid and pinch it, noise stops. Put the hose back, then pull the hose off the other side of the solenoid. Put my finger over the hole, noise stops. So now I'm thinking that I must have broken the hard line under the intake manifold or something trying to get the old dry rotted hose off. I put the hose back on the solenoid, grab a pair of pliers and pinch the Evap hose over by the fuel filter on the drivers strut tower. Noise stops. So now I have two questions... Why is the Evap solenoid open when the car is at idle? In my experience it is not supposed to open unless the engine is at a steady speed above idle, such as when driving down the highway. Where does the hard line go when it disappears at the bottom of the firewall? I looked under the car, and for the life of me I can't see the damn thing. I never paid any attention to the fuel lines at any of the times I was under the car. I can't imagine that they go inside, though that would seem right for a Jaguar... Edited October 1, 2009 by Fairtax4me changed the title, since the thread is turning into an evap system thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 I haven't had the chance to look into this any further yet. But since I plugged the line for the evap solenoid I've noticed that the stumble I was having at idle has gone away, and the car will accelerate up hill in 5th gear again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 maybe a bad solenoid or a leak somewhere else along the lines. Im going to check mine to as i have a similar sound! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Where does the hard line go when it disappears at the bottom of the firewall? I looked under the car, and for the life of me I can't see the damn thing. I never paid any attention to the fuel lines at any of the times I was under the car. I can't imagine that they go inside, though that would seem right for a Jaguar... Yes all the fuel lines and brake lines run inside the body of the car. They run along the inside edge of the rocker panel, underneath the plastic trim, and also another plastic guard under the trim. This is actually a great thing for those that live in the rust belt. Most cars the brake and fuel lines rust out very quickly (10 years) because they are run along the very bottom of the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 So I got a small update. Using the test mode connector I've found that all 3 solenoids in the evap system are operational. They all click when power is cycled to them, BUT the evap purge solenoid (the one under the hood) doesn't close completely. I can still blow air past the valve in either the open or closed position. Though there is a difference, it's still easy to get air through the valve when it's supposed to be closed. The other two solenoids, the vent solenoid and the tank pressure control solenoid, I didn't get a chance to test, other than checking to see that they are operational. Yes all the fuel lines and brake lines run inside the body of the car. They run along the inside edge of the rocker panel, underneath the plastic trim, and also another plastic guard under the trim. Thanks for the info! Now I can get in there and check the lines to make sure there are no big holes and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log1call Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 The noise will have been expansion or contraction which normaly goes into the charcoal canister until, as you suggest, the car is running and has a few revs on. Clean/replace the solenoid and your miss will be cured too. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 I figure I'll replace it, but I've still got the problem of, where was all the "air" coming from? It doesn't seem normal that it would just keep pulling air through the lines if everything is working correctly. I'm still trying to find an explanation of how exactly the whole system works, when each valve is supposed to be open or closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log1call Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 If you go here http://cid-4ca3c3459aaa7f7f.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Public and download a PDF called "1992_lagacy_full", it has a pretty good description of most of the systems. There is also another pdf called 04_diagnostics, or somthing like that, it has the criteria for trouble codes for later models. Mostly the older cars had the same or similar criteria if they had the systems in place. If you look at what you have and have a read you will figure which bits are relevent to your car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 3, 2009 Author Share Posted October 3, 2009 Thanks for the link. I'll wheel through some of that and see what I can come up with. Looks like a ton of good info in the Diagnostic file. Too bad I don't have the kind of diagnostic equipment to take advantage of the figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log1call Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Connecting laptops to cars these days is easy. I'll do a write up one day. Other than that, have a read here... http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 The EvoScan Looks like AutoTap, but costs a lot less. Any idea how the two compare to each other? I was looking for a decent scan tool and settled on one that could read ABS codes. But I have no idea how often I would need that function. Of the vehicles I've owned that have ABS, I've never had a problem with any of them that wasn't obvious, like a broken connector or cut wire. Or a hole burned in the side of the ABS control module... from the inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log1call Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) I only use free software mostly but I did buy a copy of evoscan because it is so far ahead of the competition, it's N.Z. made and it's relatively cheap. There is a nice simple program here... http://www.vwrx.com/index.php?pg=selectmonitor and the simplist way to connect these days is with the ftdi cable described on that first web site. Here is a blurb I did for the local subaru club, it's a bit long but hopefully it covers all the possible problems peolpe have connecting.... Right, here is the simplest way to connect a laptop to an OBD1 subaru, including the early models that had a OBD2 plug but weren't actually OBD2... First thing you need is a FTDI ttl to usb lead. You want the one shown here... http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/EvaluationKits/TTL-232R.htm It has to be a five volt one so make sure it doesn't have 3v3 on the end of it's name. Best place at the moment to get them in N.Z.is, from Aussie... http://www.dontronics-shop.com/ftdi-usb-to-serial-ttl-level-5v-converter-cable.html They are $44.00 N.Z. dollars delivered to your door. Put it on the credit card and it will be here in about four days. Get the lead, strip three wires, black is going to go to earth(pin nine), yellow is for pin two and orange is for pin three. Don't connect it to the car yet. If you are using the OBD2 plug on the first of the OBD2 models then black goes to pin four or five, yellow goes to pin twelve and orange goes to pin thirteen. Have a look here if you are not sure which plug or pin is which... http://www.vwrx.com/index.php?pg=selectmonitor. Download the software while you are there. You can get a radio adaptor which will plug into the ssm plug on the car from an auto-electrical or audio shop but just stripping the wires and soldering the ends stiff will do the job, the car has female sockets so it's easy to shove anything in there really. Now you need to download the drivers for the ftdi chip from the ftdi site and install them. There are instruction at the ftdi site for installing the drivers. Plug your new cable into your laptop and go into the controlpanel/system/hardware and check that the adaptor has shown up and which number that usb to serial adaptor is connected to. Record the number because you need to tell the software which port to use. We are going to use the "ssm dump" part of this software to check it goes... http://www.vwrx.com/index.php?pg=selectmonitor When you get the software there will be three parts to it. One is a text configuration file and in it, it has which port number to use. Open the ssm text file and read through it. The comport is 2 by default but just change the number where it says "comport=2" to the number you recordered earlier. When you run the dump part of the program it will get you an ecu identifying number... We hope! The ssm dump tool is for testing and finding ecu addresses. If you make a connection you will get a ecu number, like 7431XX or something. So... (this is getting exciting), plug the usb in and connect the wires/plug to the car. Turn the key on(but don't start the car) and start the "ssm dump" program. If you get 474849 it is the request being sent to the ecu being echoed back to your laptop because there is a setting wrong in your port setting. If you get "Null", you don't have a connection. Check the wires and that the key is on. Once you have the ecu's identification number it will either connect straight up to the car with the ssm, or, you might have to rename one of the other ecu identities to your number in the text configuration file that comes with the software. Once you get an ecu identifying number in the dump tool then see if there is a definition file ecu number the same or similar. If your number is in the list then you can run the ssm program and you will start logging data straight away. If your number isn't in the list we need to find a model that will work for your car. This may help you choose a likely model... 1st character is always "7" on older cars. 2nd character is year rom was produced "0" for 1990, "2" for 1992, "3" for 1993, "4 for 1994" etc. 3rd and 4th characters seem to specify the car and engine type. For example: (25=SVX), (31,32,36,39=Legacy),(3F, 40=Impreza) Probably lots of others too. 5th character is market. "1" for JDM. "2" for USA. "3" for Europe. I guess "4" might be USSR. 6th character is ROM revision I think. Try 1,2 or 3. You could try putting a range of addresses from the likely file into the dump and see if the figures returned make sense, ie. the revs or battery voltage are right. So if your car's ecu number was near 744014 you would choose to log from 1332 to 1336 say, to read the battery voltage. You choose the numbers to log by typing into the top of the dump program where it has two, four digit fields. You wont get all the data fields in one dump so choose something simple to test. Revs are good. Just enter a narrow range so you get a lot of readings in a few minutes. If you find a likely candidate, copy the likely part of the definition file to the bottom of the config file and edit the ecu number in it to your number then save the changes. Now try reading the car using the ssm tool, not the dump. Hopefull all the data will be right, but we can test it is by running the motor and doing things to the motor.. disconnect an injector lead and the a/f will change and so will the IPW and O2 for instance. If you like that software, you will really like the evoscan software, it's heaps faster, does more cars, more makes, more parameters. It's the best software availiable at the moment. Have a look here.. http://www.limitless.co.nz/ I have added a few more models to the evoscan setup, if your ecu number isn't in the vwrx config file we can put some of the ones I have in or make you a new one. Edited October 5, 2009 by Log1call ************, did I say BIT LONG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log1call Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) It is actually easier than it reads in that horribly long discription. The cable will work with evoscan and that ssm software as well so they are fairly handy. Once you have the link up and running you can check all those parameters that are in the "diagnostic" pdf file and log figures directly to a spreadsheet as you drive then analyze them later. They are a handy supplement to the trouble codes and all the standard tests and quite often the logged data will confirm something is going or not straight away... O2 and knock detection operation being a couple of really good ones. For OBDII I use an Elm based cable and free software. I have all sorts because you need different software for japanese, european, GM etc. Despite the OBDII protocol, things are still a jumble and the CAN doesn't look to be any better! Edited October 5, 2009 by Log1call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 So I got a small update. Using the test mode connector I've found that all 3 solenoids in the evap system are operational. They all click when power is cycled to them, BUT the evap purge solenoid (the one under the hood) doesn't close completely. How did you do this test? Can I do it on my '88 GL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted February 27, 2010 Author Share Posted February 27, 2010 I really wouldn't know if the GL has those connectors or not. Ask in the Old gen forum. Those guys know everything there is to know about the older model soobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesm113 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 So I got a small update. Using the test mode connector I've found that all 3 solenoids in the evap system are operational. They all click when power is cycled to them, BUT the evap purge solenoid (the one under the hood) doesn't close completely. I can still blow air past the valve in either the open or closed position. Though there is a difference, it's still easy to get air through the valve when it's supposed to be closed. The other two solenoids, the vent solenoid and the tank pressure control solenoid, I didn't get a chance to test, other than checking to see that they are operational. Thanks for the info! Now I can get in there and check the lines to make sure there are no big holes and such. Sorry to dig up an old thread, but did you ever get the chance to test the pressure control solenoid? I currently am tracking down a P0440 EVAP code, mine doesn't close, but I can't find the correct operation anywhere. Mine currently remains open, regardless of whether power is applied or not. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 I don't remember anymore. I might have. But either way. Connect the green connectors under the dash and turn the key to ON. The solenoid should click if it's working. Pull one of the hoses off and try to blow through the solenoid as it clicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesm113 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I don't remember anymore. I might have. But either way. Connect the green connectors under the dash and turn the key to ON. The solenoid should click if it's working. Pull one of the hoses off and try to blow through the solenoid as it clicks. Yes, there is a very faint click. But it remains open. Wanted to confirm that it doesn't operate some other way (like allows air to enter the system to relieve pressure?) before replacing a $70 part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 You know now that I think about it, IIRC there was one solenoid that had a one way valve in it. I don't recall which solenoid it was. The valve allowed air to pass by the solenoid even with the valve closed. It was either that or the valve was open one way when the solenoid was on, but open to the other way when it was off. I might have to look that up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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