rguy1010 Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 (edited) Aloha- I just joined this site, but have been a Suby person for a long time. Mostly restored Loyale, until the resale market fell out.... Sooo I's stopped at this guy's house to see if the Olds was for sale, and in his carport is a Subie AWD wagon. I ask him if it's up for grabs , and he says that he is hauling it off tomorrow to pull-and-save. That perks up my ears (more like a red flag to a bull !!). I go over and the body is nice and straight-except of some rust around the rear wheel wells, paints OK, glass is all good, interior is nice and Bingo it's a 5 speed with shift on the fly button. Coupla brand new tires, Seats are nice every thing works... Pop the hood and it's a TURBO- Gulp !! I ask him what is wrong with this and he says when you start it up it does a James Bond impersonation.. Massive smoke. I pull the dipstick and it has about (I'm not kidding) a foot of oil on the stick!! I get a new blue towel and the oil looks diluted with gas. I had a '93 Loyal w/ SPFI that the injector was leaking that did about the same thing on a lesser scale. I know how most of you feel about Turbos, but I hate to see a perfect winter car feed to the sharks... I mean it still even runs for god's sake!!!! I look at the tires on it and I hand him a new Ben Franklin.... Any info about it's drinking and smoking problems (it is over 21 year old though), and a line on some parts will be greeted with heartfelt appreciation. Thanks, Ron e-mail rguy1010@gmail.com Edited September 11, 2010 by rguy1010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skishop69 Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 A few things come to mind. The leaky injector you know of. Could be leaking badly when shut off and it could do that over a period of time. Second, burnt rings (it is, after all a turbo...) It's possible he doesn't know what he's talking about as far as it being gas. Maybe someone overfilled the oil because they were interrupted during an oil change and forgot to drain it. I've seen it happen. Drain the oil and put some in a soup can. If it's got that much gas in it, it will burn when lit. :Flame:Be sure to do this OUTSIDE. Last, the infamous head gasket... Maybe you don't know there is coolant at the bottom of that there oil... Again, the drain and examine tactic. There is also the remote possibilty that someone did it on purpose to screw with the guy. Just sayin'.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 The fuel pressure regulator can fail too, and dump gas into the intake. Don't run it long with that much gas in the oil, the lifters can collapse and I've had the rockers fall out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rguy1010 Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 (edited) First of all thanks for the replies... I've come across this symptom before, in other life... First another 93 Loyale w/SPFI that dripped down the the throat of the fuel injection unit, I just replaced it with another one that I had laying around- so I never dug into it I had a Blazer with a 4.3 Vortec. They have a spider inside the valley under the intake. They have a reputation for splitting. My girlfriend had it at the store and it wouldn't turn over for her. I went up there and it started right up for me. I took it in to my friends shop for maybe something else, and he checked the oil and it had about 3 gallons of gas in the crankcase. He drained it and did an oil change, but alas it was to late... It had taken out a rod bearing. Sooo for all of you if you run into this situation don't even start the engine- there isn't enough lubrication with this much gas in it. In another life my dad was a Lawnboy lawnmower dealer and they test for oil in the gas. You take some card stock and put 1 drop of gas on the card with the suspect gas/oil mixture, one with straight gas, and one with 32:1 gas mix with Lawnboy oil. Let the gas flash off and and it is more than obvious if the customer had or had not used LB oil (dyed) and at what mixture to determine if the engine was covered under warranty... that's why I took a new blue paper shop towel to check the oil. It is definitely a lot of gas in the oil. It isn't a milkshake (coolant in the oil), I deal with that every day. I currently buy Cadillac Northstars with bad head gaskets and repair them..... The owner didn't have enough savvy to know anything about his car, he was just going to replace the long block. I suspect that he would have had the same problem in a short amount of time. He was addressing the symptom, not the problem... I am lucky enough to have Mr. Injector very close to me (check him out on e-bay- or I can hook you up), he charges $16 parts and labor to completely repair and bench test any injector. He just did a 3.0 Taurus for me that was washing the cylinders w/ gas. Here are the specific questions that I have for this community.... Remember that the car isn't here and I can't run out and look at it... 1) I kinda like the fuel pressure regulator angle. If it was bad it could wash the cylinders and allow gas into the boxer engine. I suspect that with the horizontal format it could easily allow gas into the crankcase. When I look it up @ Shuck's they are fabulously expensive, but when I look up the application chart they were used for many years on 1.8 2bbl, SPFI, and multi point FI 88-92.. 1a) Is there a specific test for the fuel regulator ? 1b) Where is it located on the car and does anyone have one? 2) Bad fuel injector(s). Not so much, the injector cycles with voltage provided so it would have to be damaged or stuck open to put this large amount of fuel in the crankcase. 2a) How are they removed? 2b) Has anyone had the same similar experience with them? 2c) Any tricks to pass on about removal and/or testing?? 2d) Bad computer? That might make 1 or more injectors stay open ?? 3) When I look up parts, I see that in 1987 they show a fuel shut off solenoid that is year specific. In another life I was a Briggs and Stratton Master mechanic (don't laugh, I learned a lot and it isn't as easy as you might think). They started using a similar solenoid in the carburetor in the larger cubic inch engines to prevent dieseling. If it failed, or the starter switch was bad, it would fill the crankcase with gas and petrolock the cylinder... Any thoughts???? Well I know that this is long winded, but I prefer to accurately diagnose the problem than to randomly change parts. I find that SOME technicians have become just parts changers, rather that dedicated mechanics... Kinda like SOME medical doctors... (We don't know what is wrong with you, so let's try this...) It also cuts into my beer drinking time.. Part of my diagnosis will be to pull the plugs and see what they look like, and to do a quick and dirty compression test on it (not a more comprehensive leak down test). That will maybe tell what cylinder is giving me problems, and to eliminate a piston ring problem. I have tried to provide a thoughtful and exact description on what is going on with this car, and ANY constructive help would be greatly appreciated... Thanks, Ron Edited September 12, 2010 by rguy1010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 (edited) A bad regulator can be determined pretty easily - obviously you should change the oil (gas?) before running it - then check that the fuel pressure is within spec. Also use a vacuum hand pump to pull on the regulator diaphram and check for leaks there. If both those check out then the regulator is good. Sounds like bad injector o-rings maybe. That's a lot of fuel to be comming out of an injector - I doubt it would run if they were that bad off. But it's not unheard of for them to fail on the MPFI cars so you might want to just rebuild them when you replace the o-rings. A fuel-cut off solenoid.... that should only be found on carb models and it's (as you suspect) an anti-dieseling solenoid that cuts off the fuel supply to the idle circuit. Injected models do not need anything like that since the ECU just shuts off the injectors and fuel pump relay when you kill the ignition. I know just what you mean about people randomely changing parts.... I hate doing that. Injectors are funny beasts though. Example - I just did a valve job on a '97 Legacy. Burnt a 1/4" hole in one of the #4 cylinder exhaust valves. My machine shop (that does a lot of Subaru heads) has never seen this before on a non-turbo. The only thing we could come up with is a clogged or partially shorted injector.... fuel filter was fine..... I tore apart the offending injector and could find nothing. It Ohm'd out ok. It never showed any codes - even when running on 3 cylinders. I replaced them on general principle as well as the fuel filter. I checked out the other usual suspects for a lean condition - coolant temp sensor, cleaned the MAF (wasn't dirty but still....), etc. Rebuilt the heads and it runs like a new engine. I'm pretty sure something was up with that injector - damned if I could find it though. GD Edited September 12, 2010 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rguy1010 Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 (edited) Thanks for the reply... I went over there and checked out the regulator location and the tools needed to remove. Injectors are also right there, looks like a 8mm or a sturdy #2 phillips... What is the spec on the fuel pressure out of the filter and out of the regulator ???? I do have a brand new hand vacuum/pressure pump- 10-19 lbs should be within spec ??? If the diaphragm went out of the regulator, that would easily allow gas directly into the crankcase though intake vacuum ... I have a MN-12 Super Coupe that was doing that. What is the spec for fuel pump pressure out of the tank ??? What is the ohm spec on the injectors so I can do a quick test installed ??? My Girlfriend "CLEANED" our house... Funny how she threw out my stuff, and we have new Tupperware boxes for her's ??????? I can't find any of my Subie books..... I have a lot of used Woman's World back issues w/ all of the crossword puzzles completed for you convenience though... Best offer by the ton.... Thanks for confirming my suspicions.... After all I have been through I should trust my gut more, but if someone had this same situation and it was a .02 washer that would fix it , all would be lost... This is the first turbo that I have bought, but for the condition of it I couldn't help myself... Isn't that the first step to recovery ???? It has always been my observation that a Subaru won't die, they just run SH*TY forever... I had one that the passenger side timing belt was gone (completely gone- NO trace of it ???) and it was hard to start in the winter- but it never left me walking... I took out both plugs out of the passenger side in the '94 Loyale that I have after sitting for a year and it started right up and ran pretty good .... couldn't turn the key off fast enough... MORE INPUT ... Send more input ... Thanks, Ron Edited September 12, 2010 by rguy1010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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