1998 Legacy Outback Pedders springs/custom spacers

[kanurys]

1998 Legacy Outback: I got it all on there. Not much modification involved, just some general grunting and swearing. Here's the list of parts:

 

-Pedders heavy duty springs, front and back

-KYB GR-2's/Excel G's (same thing), front and back

-Group N control arm bushings

-fabricated 3cm spacers so the Group N bushings would fit the Outback body, 1.5" OD, .25" wall super duper hard steel pipe

-new ball joints

-new tie-rods and ends

-new OEM rack boots

-new strut mounts

-new spring seat isolators (except rear uppers, I used the old ones)

-fabricated HDPE 1/2" rear strut spacers

 

The springs took 3.5 months to arrive. Via phone they promised me 2 false dates so I finally demanded they overnight them to me at their expense. Pedders USA obliged.

 

My initial measurements were as follows, with stock components:

ground to edge of FRONT wheel well: 28.5"

ground to edge of REAR wheel well: 27.75"

ground to rear differential: 8.5"

 

In order as listed above:

 

The front springs were a squeeze and are a lot more stiff than the stock springs. Even with the new KYB GR2's it's a tad bouncy. The Pedders springs are thicker and have about 1.5 more coils than the Subaru springs. Here are some pictures for comparison:

 

 

They (fronts) yeilded 2.25" of lift, and have yet to settle more (I hope).

 

EDIT: insert front height picture here

 

After some research I had a hunch that the rear springs would not lift the vehicle as much as the fronts. I would venture to say they would be a great modification by them selves on a stock vehicle. Because of this, I fabricated 1/2" spacers from HDPE plastic. It was fairly simple with a drill and jigsaw. I saw a gain of 2.25" in back, as well, which included the spacers. I thought that was interesting. The coils are very similar; the Pedders spring retaining the same number of turns as the stock spring, but the spacing at the end of the stock one is irregular. Whereas, the pedders spring is symmetrical. It still fit like a glove.

 

Also, I knocked out the strut mount studs and inserted 1/2" longer bolts, as seen in the pics.

 

 

Out with the old, in with the new:

 

 

EDIT: Insert rear height picture here

 

Thanks for reading. Next, I'll post pics of the car and it's posture. Let me know what you think.

 

SK

Edited July 16, 2011 by kanurys

[Fairtax4me]

2.25" is a nice gain. Might even be too much just from springs.

How much do the struts compress when the car is on the ground?

[kanurys]

I haven't measured yet, but they definitely have a reasonable amount of compression. I'll remeasure in a day or two, after the alignment and driving it a while and then post the data. Those fronts sure are springy.

[AWDfreak]

I think I found my future Outback suspension mods

 

[kanurys]

The alignment went very smoothly - no issues with stock ajustability. It drives really balanced on bumpy or off-camber sections. I still have to take pictures and extraneous measurements. If I ever have to take out the rear shocks I will add another half inch spacer.

Edited July 16, 2011 by kanurys

[kanurys]

Just got back from a 3000 mile trip. The new suspension drove great. I came back with an extra 400 lbs of stuff in the back and the car still handled well and had very little rear sag.

 

The front springs did settle down a tiny bit like I hoped. I am very pleased with the improvement in handling and load capacity. When I weighed it at a truck stop with my girlfriend, me, 3/4 tank of gas and all the stuff in the back it was exactly 4000 lbs (about 1000 lbs over curb weight). Its posture still looked like an empty, totally stock outback. Well, maybe a little higher, but it didn't sag to bad.

 

Pedders should have engineered the rear springs to sit the car .5" to 1" higher.

Edited August 10, 2011 by kanurys

[kanurys]

Its been about 4000 miles and I've shredded a front inner axle boot. It was about 10000 miles old and MWE brand. I replaced it with a NEW NAPA axle and slid the boot up the shaft about 1 cm to relive tension.

 

The front tires are visibly warn on the outer edges more than the inner edges. The alignment shop told me it came out great, but obviously is wearing unevenly. Should I get lower camber bolts for the front to increase adjustability?

 

Ride is still great but not too harsh. Nice and stiff. I'd say 7/10 on handling and 6/10 on reliability. Some days I trust the 87 with 4" lift a bit more.

[curtisbad]

you need blocks to lower everything accordingly or you'll be eating axles like candy and wearing out tires. curtis

[Fairtax4me]

 

The front tires are visibly warn on the outer edges more than the inner edges. The alignment shop told me it came out great, but obviously is wearing unevenly. Should I get lower camber bolts for the front to increase adjustability?

 

 

A few things come to mind. Most people probably think of Camber when they see worn edges, but outer edges are usually worn more because of incorrect caster when turning.

Did you get a spec sheet from the shop with before and after alignment measurements? Did they adjust the caster angle? (Or even measure it for that matter?)

[kanurys]

you need blocks to lower everything accordingly or you'll be eating axles like candy and wearing out tires. curtis

 

Yeah, that's kind of the conclusion I came to. I think a 1" would help a lot. Then I would have to extend steering, too.

 

 

Fairfax, that sounds like the culprit. It's not extreme, but will get worse. I can sort of feel the wheels flop over at or near full lock and loose their return-to-center. Obviously the shop didn't pay much attention to that. I'll ask them for the print out from their fancy computerized alignment system. How the heck do you even adjust caster on these cars?

[kanurys]

Aside from one front axle getting trashed, the 2" lift has held up well. Contrary to my earlier feelings, I really like the HD front springs. They enable me to dive into pretty big dips at higher speeds than with stock springs and they just eat it up and feel soft if you hit a bump really hard.

 

Since the outer edges of the front tires are wearing much more quickly than the rest of the tread face, I'm looking into some options. Fairtax is in the right ballpark on diagnosing the wear problem as a caster issue.

 

This brings me to another subject on the topic of lifting. I'd like to design and build a lift to bring the car to a complete 4" over stock with 1" axle stress. An effect of this would mean the control arm would be a little more horizontal and decrease the extreme caster... Or do I need to move the wheel forwards/strut mount backwards to get my caster closer to stock from where it is now? Remember, the springs already give me 2" of lift. Here are the pieces I think I'd need:

 

2" camber-corrected strut towers, front and back

3" engine cross-member blocks

3" transmission cross-member/transverse-link(control arm) blocks

3" rear diff cross-member blocks

?" steering extension

other misc parts (coolant hoses, brake hoses, etc...)

 

Any other things come to mind for the project? New tires are in order, of course.

 

Here are a few issues I foresee:

 

1) My camber correction on the strut towers must be different than if I were lifting a stock strut/spring setup. This is due to the dimensions of the triangle formed by the <body/control arm/strut> being changed. The only thing that stays the same is the control arm, so I'll try to keep the angle at the ball joint close to stock so alignment is possible and CASTER can be close to stock. Is this a reasonable assumption? Does anyone have some insight on how to calculate the proper angle for the spacer offset? Would someone please give me a measurement on the front and rear stock shock length from the center of where the ball joint passes through the control arm to the bottom surface of the strut mount (I'm a brewer and if you come to Durango, CO I'll make sure all of your beer needs are satiated)? Also, any relevant theory on the subject of suspension correction would be appreciated.

 

2) not sure

 

Thanks for all your help, everyone.

[Fairtax4me]

So looking in the FSM, there is no specified adjustment for caster on these cars.

 

If you do some googling on doing homebrew alignments, you can do the "string method" and with some complex math (like adding 2+2 :-p ) you can figure out what the current measurements are and which direction you need to go to bring them back to the proper spec.

 

The FSM for your year will have the specs you need and how to measure them. How you design the parts to compensate for the lift depends on how much adjustment needs to be made.

 

With a 4" lift longer brake lines will be a must. Hopefully you won't need to extend any wiring, but the radiator hoses can probably be replaced with those universal flexible ones. Automatic trans cooler lines?

Steering shaft will need to be extended, not hard to do if you have a welder and some metal pipe laying around.

Don't forget about lowering the driveshaft support bearing, rear cross member, rear trailing arm brackets, rear sway bar brackets (if you want to keep that), rear diff support (the big Y part), and the pitch mount will need to be extended. Although it might be easier to just make a drop bracket to bolt onto the firewall than to make a longer dogbone.

I have a full 2" lift kit for my car sitting in a box in the shed I'll look at the list of parts it came with tomorrow to see if there is anything else, but I think that covers all the basics.

[kanurys]

Thanks. I'm not afraid of any complex math. I just need to have a better understanding of the dynamics of the McPherson design. I think caster can be slightly adjusted by sliding the transverse link bushing sideways. Also, I have experience doing one other 4" lift on my 1987 gl wagon. I'm just not sure what else I need to consider on this newer model.

 

Anyways, thanks so much for your interest and help.