'96 Outback Noise

[swhatcher]

Ok, here's the deal: Noticed a rubbing noise coming from the front center part of car. It sounds sort of like the sound of an unbalanced wheel as it vibrates with the asphalt. The noise starts as soon as the car moves and increases with speed. I did a quick check underneath and didn't see anything hanging loose that might be rubbing against something else.

 

My guess is that problems with a driveshaft or axle would make a metallic grating noise, but I suppose I could be wrong. Also, the car is balanced and drives straight so I ruled out the possibility of alignment problems.

 

The real problem is that we live in the middle of Mexico and besides a co-worker we, apparently, drive one of two Subarus in the country. Many mechanics have never seen a car like ours and some won't even look at it. We found a mechanic that knows the car and is willing to work on it if necessary. We also have a repair manual that we lend him to help out.

 

The drivers and roads are dangerous enough down here, we would like our beloved Subaru not to instill fear in us as well. Any ideas? Are the CV joints a possiblility?

 

More importantly, if we do find the problem, are the parts Subaru-specific that we will have to order or are they more universal?

 

Thanks for any ideas, thoughts, suggestions, etc.

 

Saludos!

[calebz]

Does the noise increase when turning left or right(under acceleration)?

 

Could be DOJ(inner axle joint)

[swhatcher]

Hi Calebz. No the noise doesn't increase when turning. I guess it stays about the same.

[1 Lucky Texan]

Here's a WAG (wild *ss guess). Check for a torn inner or outer boot. It may be ripped in such a way that it flapps around at speed but resumes a 'normal' appearance stationary. Actually push,squeeze, pull on them. There would probably be a lot of grease thrown around under there and since you didn't mention it I'm probably wrong. Coulde you have a belt that's ripped or has cord hanging off it?

 

good luck and let us know OK?

 

Carl

1 Lucky Texan

[swhatcher]

Thanks Texan. I tried your WAAdvice and checked the boots and they all seem firm and stable. There is a little oil leakage under there but I can't tell where it's from and it doesn't seem major. Plus, it hasn't been that long since we replaced the front oil gaskets that were spewing the stuff back into the engine. Also, we replaced the fan belts with the gaskets so they are pretty new and stable as well.

 

Any other guesses?

 

By the way, while underneath I grabbed the driveshafts and could turn each side about 1/8-1/4 inch on either side, meaning each side had a little free play in them. Is this Ok?

 

Thanks!

[mattski]

How many miles on the car? Do you know what a failing wheel bearing sounds like? Did you check the surface of the tires on all sides. If something is rubbing against them, you would see it.

 

Are all your wheel lugs torqued properly?

 

Remove the wheels and check around the calipers. A stone wedged between the disk and caliper makes noise.

 

Matt

[swhatcher]

Hey Matt. Thanks for your suggestions. I ran through your checklist:

 

There are 104,500 miles on the rig.

 

I think I know what a failing wheel bearing sounds like. Isn't it rather high-pitched and whiney? This is more a dull rubbing sound that comes from the center of the car.

 

The tires are pretty new and look good.

 

The lugs seemed torqued well but I'm just doing it by hand. I guess I'm not sure what 'properly' means.

 

Checked the brakes on both sides and their clean and also fairly new.

 

Hmm.

[Lesbaru]

"Dull rubbing" sounds exactly like when my 96 Legacy had a bad bearing in the front. For a long time I couldn't figure out WHICH bearing it was, sounded like it was in the center of the car. My best impression was that the noise sounded like I was driving a tractor tire or a snow tire... it kinda sped up as my speed increased. By the time the noise was unbearable (couldn't hear eachother talk as we drove down the road) and I got it replaced, it still hadn't damaged anything. Just very noisy.

 

You'll need a hydraulic press to change the bearings.

[Lesbaru]

BTW, I have 102,000 on the 96 Legacy.

[1 Lucky Texan]

I've only had one vehicle that had a front WB go out and it made a 'creaky shoe leather' sound at fairly low speeds. It was very noticeable when driving past a brick wall or tall curbs. I don't think I heard anything at higher speeds but the vehicle (69 datsun 2000) was kinda noisy anyway.

 

If there is any doubt as to where the noise is maybe a length of tubing could be routed into the car from some suspiciaous areas. prbably just sound like the ocean but maybe you'd get lucky.

 

Does the sound follow engine revs or car speed? Coasting? How about in reverse? What does a passenger report hearing?Change when braking? using the emergency brake? Doese the suspension and steering seem normal?

 

Carl

1 Lucky Texan

[Setright]

Worn wheel bearings always start by rumbling or droning. Usually, turning either way at speed will change the character of the noise since the load on the bearing changes.

 

Lucky Texan, a whining bearing must have been REALLY worn!

[swhatcher]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions!

 

To answer Texan's questions, the sound follows the car speed. Passengers report the same dull rubbing. Braking just slows the noise down with speed. Not sure about reverse. The suspension and steering seem pretty normal.

 

If it is a wheel bearing, how do I go about determining which wheel?

 

Setright: The sound doesn't change with turning one way or the other. The sound changes only with speed.

 

And since we don't happen to have a hydraulic jack down here we'll have to take it in. My wife speaks perfect Spanish but we will have to direct the mechanic in specific ways since she probably doesn't know Spanish words for English car parts/problems. We do, however, have a repair manual.

 

Any other tips?

[mattski]

Subaru wheel bearings are difficult to replace. The manufacturer recommends the use of a special tool like a Hub Tamer to extract the bearing while on the vehicle to eliminate the stresses normally occurring while using a press. It probably can be done, but care must be excercised. Perhaps someone who has done this can suggest the right method.

 

To confirm which bearing, you should be able to feel a difference once the brake pads are taken out and the wheels can spin freely.

 

Or drive past someone who could listen from the outside.

 

Or just do both of them, since once one fails, it is likely that the other one will fail soon.

 

Matt

[swhatcher]

Yikes. Bad wheel bearings don't sound good or easy to fix. I guess I would want to be sure for sure before replacing them, eh?

 

Here's another question then: if we take it and our repair manual to our mechanic should he be able to work on it even though there aren't any Subarus down here? I mean are these kind of wheel bearings universal with, say, Japanese cars or otherwise, or are these Subaru-specific? Maybe that is an obvious question, I don't know. Maybe the real question is should I take the two day drive all the way to Brownsville, Tejas and repair the bearings instead? If, in fact, the bearings are the problem, which we don't know just yet.

 

More hmms.

[1 Lucky Texan]

perhaps, you could pre-purchase some parts , based on your best guess as to the likely cause of the problem, THEN go to a local mechanic. If you guess wrong you may still need to either wait on parts and drive something elese or have the car put back in running order and wait for parts hoping no more damage is being done or ,as you say, drive to the states.

 

There may even be some kind hearted, on-line, Subaru parts supplier, maybe even 1 or 2 that monitor this forum, willing to take back any un-used parts.

 

If you have only recently heard the noise, maybe Lesbaru or others can say about how long before a major disaster occurs. My 'guess' is you would have several weeks depending a lot on road,speed and vehicle load conditions.

 

I hope you get this worked out.

 

 

Carl

1 Lucky Texan

[mattski]

I would definitely recommend getting OEM Subaru bearings, with the latest upgrades.

 

There are procedures that Subaru followed initially, which involved a press. They later changed them in favor of the puller.

 

I would really suggest getting a Factory Service Manual. You can download one at http://techinfo.subaru.com/html/index.jsp for $20 if you have high speed internet access.

 

If they are really bad, I would think that you could feel the roughness while spinning the hub with your hand.

 

Matt

[swhatcher]

Update:

 

Calebz asked if the rubbing noise increased when turning left or right under acceleration. At first I didn't notice any difference but now I do. While turning right or left under acceleration I now notice an increased intensity in the rubbing noise; the sound's pitch increases a bit as does the momentum of the sound. Still the same "rubbing" noise like "driving a tractor tire or a snow tire" (thanks Lesbaru) but with an increased intensity.

 

Are we still going with the wheel bearings or should I consider the inner axel joints as Calebz suggested?

 

Thanks!

 

(I have to solve this problem soon because I need to drive across the country and climb El Pico de Orizaba!)

[swhatcher]

Hi there. It's me again. The nightmare is almost over but I have a new question.

 

Here's a brief synopsis of the last month:

 

Ordered CV drive axel from the states with no problem. Our mechanic took off the bad one and tried to press the hub and tone arm off the axel. Lots of problems. It seems the hub, etc had somehow rusted onto the axel so badly that it couldn't be pressed off with a press. In the process, the tone arm or knuckle cracked and the spindle deformed. Panic.

 

I ordered an entirely new hub, tone arm, the works from the states and had it UPSed down here at great cost. Meanwhile our car sat on a rack at the garage for a week or so. All the parts finally arrived and everything was put back on no problems. The noise decreased but was not entirely gone so the mechanic checked the other side's wheel bearings and sure enough those were worn. Luckily he was able to find new ones in town without having to order them from the states.

 

So far, so good. Car is running and the operators are happy. The whole ordeal still probably cost less than having the car fixed in the states. Not bad.

 

Now, here's my question: Has anyone ever seen this kind of problem where something fuses itself to something else to render it impossible to work with? The other side of the car, the other axle and bearings, didn't show nearly the wear and rust as the left side. Seems very strange to me.

 

Do Subarus require some special Subaru-press to get these things off? Will I somehow be able to get the parts off in order to return the old CV axle for my core refund?

 

Any thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

 

Thanks all.

[99obw]

Rust can "weld" pretty well. It doesn't really join the parts but creates so much interference that removal can be (nearly) impossible.