richieroo Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 The Hatchback is in running condition, just got smogged, and has lots of power.....But there is still this k-k-k-Knocking noise. I have adjusted all the valves, TWICE! COLD (as told to do by you guys and others as well) and there just seems to be a clunking or knocking sound. I am hoping it is not a rod either connecting rod or pushrod. But on that item could a valve adjustment be right and the pushrod be bent and that is where the nosie is? Could it be that I have a zero clearance adjustment and not know it...how do I know if there are hydraulic lifters in this with the obvious stickers on the side of the valve covers (came without them)? (EA81) What do ya'll think? Rich :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 as you have a 1987 hatch, if it is the orig engine, it has hydraulic lifters - all EA81's made durring/after 1985 have hydraulic lifters - they do not require "adjustment" so you should not try to adjust them - I do not know how to set them back to normal after they have been adjusted - if you oil pressure is not good, it can cause lifter noise, but usually that is like a loud tapping sound, not a "knock" - prolonged low oil pressure will cause main and connecting rod bearing failure from what it sounds like - if you have a constant "knock" at all speeds and conditions, you have a bad connecting rod/crank bearing - I would rectify that problem ASAP before you put a hole in your engine block (throwing a rod or something like that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieroo Posted May 9, 2005 Author Share Posted May 9, 2005 This is not the original engine. I bought this form an outfit in TX a used Jap engine. Looks older thatn 85, guessing though..... It got better after the valve adust, but I am leary of driving it now. Obviously I cannot hear it at higher speeds, but it is there at idle and up to about 1500-2000 rpms, (guessing without a tachometer). Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 One way to tell if its got hyd lifters is to see if there is a boss where the turbo knock sensor is threaded into. On a non turbo engine, i believe the boss will have no hole in it, it will just be a small circular raised section. If its present, you will find it by looking behind the intake manifold and to the left (looking at the engine, so the 1-3 side), maybe 50mm from the crankcase joint. just to add to the confusion, ea81s fitted with automatics from around '83 also had hyd lifters (and thus the knock sensor boss). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieroo Posted May 9, 2005 Author Share Posted May 9, 2005 Ross, Look on the engine or the head? This is not a turbo engine, it is a Carb. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 On the engine block, just to the left (1-3 side) of the centre. i know its carb'd, but it will still have the boss for the knock sensor (it wont have the knock sensor, and may not even have a hole drilled for it) if it has hydraulic lifters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieroo Posted May 9, 2005 Author Share Posted May 9, 2005 Okay, let me look tonight at 6:00 pacific time. I think we are 20 hours apart. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieroo Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 Ross, I didn't see anything like a knock out hole or boss so i am assuming that I have a solid lifter engine. So the knocking coudl be either a connecting rod or a pushrod? Or something entirely different? Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 OK, if its a con rod, it will be a heavy "clonk", and will probably happen most at idle (lowest oil pressure). Valvetrain noise will be a much lighter tapping sound. Have you checked your oil pressure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 ditto on what Ross said - drive up to almost any somewhat reputable shop - walk in and ask the mechanic to come out to your car - start it and let him hear the noise - he will tell you if it is a connecting rod (means new engine/engine rebuild) - they have a VERY distinctive sound most any mechanic knows another way it to use a mechanic's stethoscope (probably spelled it wrong) - it looks like one a doctor has, except it has a rod on the end - put it on different parts of the engine and listen - it will help you find the source (find the loudest point) - if it is a rod, it will be hard to isolate, usually valve noise is easy to pinpoint with one (in my expierence) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenTBK Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 A real mechanics stethoscope is a waste of money IMO. Grab yourself a long rump roast screwdriver, push the point down onto your block, and press your ear to the handle. I've got a 24" small phillips with a big rubberized handle thats absolutely perfect for such tasks, and is useless for everything else. If you poke around with a similar device with the engine idling, you can hear what valvetrain noise sounds like, what the tranny gears whirring sounds like, and whatever is the source of your knocking noise. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieroo Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 Actually last week I did that exactly, and my mechanic said it was vavles. I adjusted them AGAIN and it sounds the same to me. He said "Hey it's a Subaru, whaddaya expect?" I don't remember it sounding that bad a few years ago when I ran it everyday, but now this is the second engine installed. The first one I put in was rebuilt by a "expert", it ran great with little or no noise, but smoked the whole world up. |(Needs new rings!) (BTW my first engine ,original blew a head gasket a while back and this car has been sitting for a few years, but the engine in there now is a used Jap one with supposedly less than 50k yeh right! It was in horrible looking condition when I got it, but I put it together to make sure And now this is the result.) So here I am and frusterated because I do not know where to turn next. Actually I am gonna put in new piston rings in my other engine and possibly put it back in, if it runs better then I will see aobut getting some of my money back on the Jap one. I don't know though as the owner has already talked to me about that and they are being pretty hard nosed about making it work. $600.00 for what I consider a piece of metal........... Rich:-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieroo Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 Thanks Raven I made a stethoscope and listened but internal sounds seemed faded out. Not sure what to listen for either. When I listen to the valvles clicking,,they click! So is that bad? I am trying to locate the knock and I really feel it is a bad rod or pushrod, but how do I know unless I tear into it and then void my warranty of 90 days (down to 60 now) on the engine! Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 I would go to a GOOD mechanic in town (your other one did not sound helpful) and ask his (or her) opinion of the situation, and get him (or her) to tune it up - It appears as though you got a bad engine, and the company needs to replace it for you (while under warranty) - otherwise you loose the money you have already put into this engine - if you REALLY feel there is a problem, I would suggest you contact the company anyway, and inform them that you are having problems with their product - heck, drive the h#$% out of it, and if it throws the rod under warranty, they buy you a new engine!! It seems odd that you are having this much trouble with the engine as EA81's are known for being bulletproof - I guess you stunbled on some bad builders :-\ Good Luck!! (hope this headache is solved soon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieroo Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 I think your advice is very good, and I "will have to go" to the next GOOD mechanic as you say. But I have been burning a hole in my cradit card with getting things for this Hatch. Still I will have to do something soon and then get this thing settled. I will keep you informed as things develop! thanks for your advice and yes I was thinking of drivng the h%^*( out of it! That crossed my mind as well! See ya! Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 ...It seems odd that you are having this much trouble with the engine as EA81's are known for being bulletproof - I guess you stunbled on some bad builders :-\ ... Might not be Subaru's fault so much as the engine's previous owner. Think about it: What would YOU do if you had only a few hundred miles left before the law told you that you had to replace your perfectly good running engine? I personally would not flog it into the ground, but others might. ... It was in horrible looking condition when I got it... This is not a good sign on a JDM import engine. Most importers (that I have seen) clean up the engine, often spraying a coat of clear paint all over it to make it look clean and shiney. If your engine looked dirty and disheveled, I would be concerned... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieroo Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 I was very concerend and wrote the owner and email regarding that. But they just slipped it off to another subject, as a matter of fact they were downright mad at me becasue I was upset with their service. Screw em for now, I am gonna look into this a bit more then decide waht to do in as short amount of time that I can. BTW I really do not want to drive it into the ground just to get another engine, I spent too much time getting this going and want to find a solution, either another motor or have it fixed. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenTBK Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Thanks Raven I made a stethoscope and listened but internal sounds seemed faded out. Not sure what to listen for either. When I listen to the valvles clicking,,they click! So is that bad? I am trying to locate the knock and I really feel it is a bad rod or pushrod, but how do I know unless I tear into it and then void my warranty of 90 days (down to 60 now) on the engine!What did you make it out of? If you use a long screwdriver like I've got, its as if you placed your ear right up to the valvecover. When you listen to the valves, they're supposed to click. Unless its exceptionally loud, theres no problem there. You need to use a long screwdriver and place it in various places around the block. If it is crank related, you would hear the knock in the middle of the block, either at the front, or rear. Just keep poking around till you hear your knock through the screwdriver. Depending on where you hear it, we can help you diagnose its source. Or.. you could drive it up to a different mechanic and see if they can pinpoint it for you. If its really that loud, serious sounding, and annoying, just do a warranty exchange on it and call it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 This sounds a bit silly, but mine was making a knocking sound at low rpms and would stop at higher rpms. It was the oil fill bracket bouncing against the brake cylinder... I just found it tonight while trying to get the beast to stay running for more than 30 seconds before dying. It still won't stay running, but the knock is gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieroo Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 Wish it waas that simple! thanks for the input. I need to take off like a month and fix this thing! Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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