89Ru Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Last night got a CEL over Severn River bridge. Lost power, coasted down under a streetlight. Same bridge where my hood flew up although this time eastbound. ECU says code 11, crank angle (no reference pulse) About a week ago I cleared codes so this is probably fresh. Do I have to pull the distributor to change this out or can I do this roadside? I have the FSM, page 6-1-27 shows a pic. I have until tonight before I'll need a tow...the 24 hour thing. 89 GL 3-door SPFI, optical distributor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 I think you can change it out without pulling the disty but it will be an easier job if you did pull it I think. I have not done this myself. Just going by memory of working in that area. Before doing anything though I would check for voltage getting to the unit. You may want to check the fusible links for a connection problem. Also check the other fuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted May 17, 2005 Author Share Posted May 17, 2005 Thanks Cougar for the tips. I'll do it before anything drastic. Am having trouble finding the exact part match. BWD: CBE507 NAPA: TP120 GP: 10-5001 NIE: WA910 SMP: LX-515 WELLS: JA115 Crank angle sensor, 89 Hitachi distributor? Names, prices vary too, from $63 to $180. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted May 17, 2005 Author Share Posted May 17, 2005 Here's a pic of p/n JA115, since I haven't torn into it I can't verify this is what I need... http://partimages.genpt.com/partimages/227669.jpg Look right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 I think that is a picture of the magnetic pickup. According to your first post you have the optical unit, so I think you need a different one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravelRX Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 I really don't have a good memory for this stuff but I think mine gave this code because of the thingy under the coil. Quick, someone name the thingy that goes bad on every freaking 87-88 Subaru MPFI/SPFI subaru out there. Ahh, it's that thing, under the coil, with the wire on the mount for the coil, you know, the THINGY! I guess I could search and make this post a bit more plausible. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Ahh, it's that thing, under the coil, with the wire on the mount for the coil, you know, the THINGY! Ignition pulse amplifier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 You are correct Calebz. GravelRx makes a good suggestion bring that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted May 18, 2005 Author Share Posted May 18, 2005 Thanks, my transistor whatsiz (ignition pulse amplifier) is original so it could be bad...so is my coil (shhhhh!) Cougar I think you are right about the magnetic pickup being the wrong part...after checking for voltages on the crank angle sensor connector (they are ok) I took out the distributor and with a meter, checked the reference and position signals. As I turn the shaft, the position signal responds but the reference signal wanders around in voltage...which seems to match the code 11 (bad reference). I might check with an oscilloscope to verify this... Had to tow it on a flatbed...so its a lawn ornament until I can find a new distributor...no parts shops seem to have the sensor electronics as a replacement part... Vehicle registration stickers just came in the mail, good for two years...anyone think it will run again before they expire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 I took out the distributor and with a meter, checked the reference and position signals. As I turn the shaft, the position signal responds but the reference signal wanders around in voltage...which seems to match the code 11 (bad reference). I might check with an oscilloscope to verify this... What exactly do you mean when you say the reference signal wanders? When you say reference voltage I assume you are talking about the larger space holes of the wheel, correct? If so, I would expect the voltage on a meter to go up or down (I'm not sure how this is being measured) when the larger holes are in line with the light sensor. It would seem to me that if you are getting pulses as you turn the shaft that the sensor is good. The only thing to make sure is if the voltage pulses are high enough. Have you checked the connections between the CAS and the ECU to make sure that they are ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted May 18, 2005 Author Share Posted May 18, 2005 Cougar, The reference is the larger spaces in the wheel, right. My voltmeter was wandering around in 0-200 mV on the ref signal no matter if I was turning the shaft or not, where the pos signal seemed to go up in voltage only when the shaft was turning... Regarding your 2nd question, according to the FSM procedure, I checked the body side of the CAS connector. Using the (-) battery terminal as a reference, I found good 12V, and 5V on the reference and position pins (pullups on logic inputs?), plus a good ground so I think the connections to the ECU are good. With the distributor sitting on a bench by itself, powered with 12V, while turning the shaft, I used an oscilloscope to look at the reference and position pins from the CAS. Voltage levels look rather low (4mV peak), these signals are referenced to the black wire (GND). I would think these should be logic (5V) signals...the pulses are there though...the position signal has a low frequency pulse upon which the 1 degree pulses appear, riding on top. The reference signal has a dip that I think marks one of the four wider slots on the wheel. I tried to add a pic of the scope screen, hope it works... hitachi_89_crank_angle_optical.bmp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Very nice reference data 89Ru. It is very fortunate you have a scope and know how to use it. Looking at your scope data it seems to me also that the signals are way too low and should be between 4 and 5 volts peak, though I have not looked at them before this. I am going by what the manual says you should see. Your meter was just basically measuring noise. There may be an amplifier stage in the CAS that is not working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted May 19, 2005 Author Share Posted May 19, 2005 Glen, Reading dneufelds post has me wondering about my hookup He states "red power / black reference / white position / green ground" My hookup: red power / green reference / white position / black ground I base this on my FSM which says: GB power GY ref sign BW pos sign B ground I suppose '87 and '89 could have different wire colors...just wondering. The CAS was drawing 31 mA at 12V on red --> black Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Michael, I have no doubt that your wiring is correct since your vehicle was running and died while driving if I remember correctly. My service manual for an '88 SPFI version agrees with the same colors you state you have, though it doesn't show what signals are on the lines. They just tie to the ECU. I am real confident that a new CAS will fix your problem after seeing the scope data you so expertly provided. You do bring up a very good point about Dneufeld's problem though. It sounds like the green and black wires are reversed. Thanks for the notice, I did not catch that. Edit: I see you provided the current draw for the CAS. Very nice, but I have no idea what a normal draw is. I would expect maybe something a little higher since your output appears to be damaged. You must be a tech of some sort to be able to provide this kind of data. Not many folks get this deep into the electronics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted May 19, 2005 Author Share Posted May 19, 2005 Correct, died while driving. Tach went to zero on the crest of the bridge. Thanks for the confirm on the wiring. I'd like to get a little deeper and dig into the part to replace the amplifier...I hate to throw things away...but that would be a research project (is it already?) I found a site that offers reman. distributors for 22100AA440, D4P86-03 www.ccrengines.com/roobuilders/ Oops forgot, this whole car is a research project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I don't think you can get down to component level with the sensor but I don't know for sure. I would think you should be able to get the sensor for a lot less than the whole disty but you may find a deal on one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted June 14, 2005 Author Share Posted June 14, 2005 Whoops, I got off on the wrong track. Distributor isn't the main problem, its the driver side timing belt! Must have broken or slipped (hitachi rotor isn't turning, why didn't I check this first?) It only had 55K on it... Never done these before. I have found some great posts on how to do it with pictures...looks like a lot of stuff may have to come out first (alternator, radiator, A/C) Car has 257K, should I do this? How many hours for a novice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 I think you should be able to do this without much trouble. It may take you about half the day to do, I'm not really sure. Make sure you understand how to do the alignment of the timing marks if you do this. You don't want to have to redo the job because of a misaligned belt. You may want to replace the water pump also while your in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 I think I should rename this thread...frontyard shadetree attempts timing belt job#1 Took me 7 (yes, seven ) leisurely hours to get the '89 GL plastic belt covers off and I'm only half way there- Yep, driver side belt was broke. The driver side cover was coated with a thick sludge so I'm glad it was there - I'm rethinking my idea of running bare belts. Thanks to Miles for the tip- after numerous failed attempts to lock the m/t flywheel, I tied a heavy rope between a passenger side oak tree (square) and a breaker bar on the 22 mm crankshaft pulley bolt. Bumped the starter twice and was able to unscrew the bolt by hand! Took out the passenger side fan and driver side fan housing. I didn't take out the radiator or A/C like Miles suggests- would have cut down on the overall hours if I did the radiator and water pump pulley first...lots of time spent on getting the last couple of top fasteners off the driver side cover, finally took off the p/s pulley which was easy enough (jam a screwdriver through the pulley to lock it first and then remove center nut). Don't do like I did and back off the water pump pulley LAST! Hold the pulley (driver fan) with a side wrench on the shaft and remove the four 10 mm nuts. next step, cam positioning: follow the procedure! http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=37951&referrerid=4725 ...Meanwhile, back to the original topic (crank angle sensor module) which got me started on this job I got a very helpful note from Larry at Forecast Products (mfr of the 7029 and 7030 in quantities of 50+): Although both units are 4 terminal, the best way to identify them is by looking at the bushing design. The 7029 has threaded through-bushings while the 7030’s are smooth. (Historically, the 7030 is the more popular of the two). You should be able to purchase these from your local retailer (AutoZone, O’Reilly’s, etc) under one of the following numbers: FTC7029 (unit with threaded through-bushings): BWD: ME570 NAPA: MP415 GP: 11-5109 NIE: WA933A SMP: LX-652 FTC7030 (unit with smooth through-bushings): BWD: ME571 NAPA: MP418 GP: 11-5110 NIE: WA933B SMP: LX-653 The bushings he mentions are the 3 brass bushings on the plastic encapsulated module itself...to see them you have to disassemble the distributor (use a vise with soft wood to lock the gear-shaft while you remove the center screw, the four-wire connector unplugs with a little encouragement) Of course if you are going to buy a new module you should consider Kerry at Rubuilders to do the whole distributor rebuild since the module is $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Ru Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 Woohoo finally done with the belts change Didn't want to start and ran bad for a few minutes (good test of my motor mounts) but somehow the ECU got the vibrations out, I did a crude timing adjust by rotating the distributor but it ended up right where it started...can't find my timing light. So my crank angle module must be working? No codes while running. I am curious about how the engine would run if I pulled the crank angle connector... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 The sensor tells the ECU where the position of the crank is so it determine when to send a signal to the ignition to fire the plugs. Without the CAS signal "you ain't got nothin" sort of speaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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