Loyale lacks power and chugs

[newloyalefan]

I just bought my first Subaru, a '94 Loyale (ea82??), and I love it, but.... it lacks power and chugs (mostly in first and second gears).

 

First, some History on it: it has 158k miles, and when I bought it the "check engine light" was ON. Had a mechanic diagnose it (after three days) as a code 34 (egr solenoid), but once the part was replaced, the light remained on. The mechanic says that Subaru told him the code was "burned" into the computer from being on so long, and even after the part was repaired, the code cannot be erased and the engine light will remain on.

 

Now, more recent history: the car seems to lack power, specifically, it chugs and nearly stalls when first started up and placed into first gear to take off. The car idles smoothly (minus a kind of 'chirping' noise that reminds me of a '68 VW bug i used to drive), but in first and second gears (as the car picks up speed) the engine chugs. As soon as cruising speed is reached, it sails smoothly, no chugging. Yet, any time that the gas is pressed for any acceleration the car labors/chugs. This is alleviated if i ease the clutch out slowly to engage the gears, it doesn't seem to struggle as much.

 

So, I changed the fuel filter, the distributor cap, rotor, wires and plugs, thinking this little tune-up would help... nope.

 

I'm wondering now if it is something with the fuel/air mixture, fuel injection, or timing belts.. or even the clutch going out... (oh yes, likely unrelated, but when i "touch" the clutch while coasting it makes a 'whirring' noise, like a miniature helicopter, why?).

 

Help please!! What's making my Subaru chug and struggle?

[royboy159]

Hey New..fan---Welcome a"board".

 

I think you need to diagnose that check engine light yourself.

You can get helpful info here:http://www.importautoparts.com/a_subaru.html

When that whirring sound changes to a screaching sound then it'll be time to change the throwout bearing.

Do come back and post on this thread on how you make out.

[hooziewhatsit]

wow, that site has a convoluted waying of saying some stuff wrong :-)

 

basically, you want to connect the white single-pole connectors under the hood. They're on the drivers side near the wiper motor/brake master cylinder area. There should be a pair of green connectors right by them.

 

After that, turn the key to on, and start counting flashes on the ECU. This is under the kickpanel on the drivers side. When I check codes I can usually pull the top lip of the kick panel down to see the LED, rather than take the panel off.

 

To clear the codes, connect both white & green, and go for a drive. If the CEL flashes, there are no more codes. If it comes on steady, stop and look at the LED on the ECU for code(s).

 

 

About the EGR code getting 'burned into' the ECU... I don't think it works like that.... however, I almost think thats what my 88 GL has done with that same code

[bgd73]

I went through same troubles about EGR. Even without the solenoid switching it, the egr was opening. high miles Can do this. I uhhh "panicked" and blocked it off forever. A proper way to maintain would be to clean the egr valve and its ports with wire wheel (this is claimed to work, I haven't bothered with it).My car got worse at speed, and it was doing it getting there, valve is opening too soon, or not soon enough, open too long or not open long enough, or in my final "fix"...Never opening again! I resorted to making my own intake boot "cold" with steel pipes and aluminum (the EGR open nearly killed my high mile engine, even the top end feed of good cool air got outright HOT.) My fix will cause greater fuel consumption, and CEL light random. I really needed the extra power with it closed off. Also, it took the ECM or the components quite a few runs before the backwards, suicide HOT intake to go back to some kind of normal smooth operation.My prob went extreme, it started with the burping, chuggin erratic powered irregularities, like yours. (93 loyale, 139k).

[newloyalefan]

Thanks for responses.

Well, i'm having two problems so far:

1) the CEL lamp has been removed by the mechanic. A minor hassle since i'm finding it a pain to access the back of the CEL panel to replace the bulb.

2) i can't tell whether i need to plug or unplug a set of connectors "under the steering column near/left the ECM" in order to diagnose and clear error codes. One source says nothing about them, just the white and green set under the hood near the fuel filter. Another source says a set of connectors below the instrument panel near ECM is to be connected/disconnected.

Which is correct?

Thanks

[hooziewhatsit]

The easiest way to get to the back of the CEL light is to remove the driver side dash :-/ 2 screws right above the instrument cluster, usually 2 screws on the bottom edge - one goes up into the rear wiper switch, other screw is in same place on other side the steering wheel. Remove the 'OFF' and "defrost' buttons, and remove those two screws. After that, it should snap out with some force.

 

 

The connectors you're looking for are not inside the car. They are under the hood by the wiper motor/brake master cylinder. I would have found that article confusing as well.

[royboy159]

Thanks for responses.

Well, i'm having two problems so far:

1) the CEL lamp has been removed by the mechanic. A minor hassle since i'm finding it a pain to access the back of the CEL panel to replace the bulb.

2) i can't tell whether i need to plug or unplug a set of connectors "under the steering column near/left the ECM" in order to diagnose and clear error codes. One source says nothing about them, just the white and green set under the hood near the fuel filter. Another source says a set of connectors below the instrument panel near ECM is to be connected/disconnected.

Which is correct?

Thanks

Hey New..fan---I thought my PM was clear---there aren't any diagnostic connectors for your Loyale below the instrument panel, just under the hood.

The link I gave is generic for all Soobs and technically correct for most. There are a few variations like the Loyale.

Even without the CEL you should be able to check codes on the ECM's O2 monitor light and clear all codes if there aren't any current problems.

[Hank Roberts]

Do a quick search for EGR and engine light threads since April, I'm in a few. It took two different garages to finish finding the problems causing my EGR code -- the actual paths in the engine that carry the exhaust gas out from the combustion exhaust side, to the EGR valve, and back to the combustion intake side were packed solid with carbon. Someone had crimped the hose shut way back when.

 

My experience says these older cars are developing new and different ways to fail, and that mechanics who rely on their vast store of experience and knowledge (instead of looking with both eyes and brain) miss the new failure modes because they don't believe something new can be going wrong with the cars they know so perfectly. Just like old men who don't believe new things could be going wrong with our bodies after all these years, I guess.

[TurboSPFI]

So whats the next code in line?

[newloyalefan]

Thanks all for the replies. The saga continues... but I've been on a bit of a hiatus. I've been backpacking the Colorado Trail for the past week (the last 70 mile stretch from Silverton to Durango) and of course have not been near a computer.

As for the car, when I left on my trip, the car was blinking a 35 error code and was so underpowered that it could hardly chug up a hill on I-70 at 35mph.

So, there it is; I'll start looking at it again on Friday.

Thanks,

Tim

[Cougar]

The definition for code 35 is the purge control solenoid or circuit.

 

Have you checked for vacuum leaks or a intake manifold leak for this problem?

[royboy159]

Hey New...fan---Codes 34 or 35 wouldn't usually produce such severe symptoms. After checking for vacuum leaks, I'd double check ignition timing and then take a look at the condition of the timing belts. Does she run fine when the engines cold but act up after a few minutes of warming up?:-\

[newloyalefan]

Glen and Roy, i don't know how to check for vacuum/intake manifold leaks. I've suspected it has something to do with the air intake or fuel injection, but don't know much about that stuff.

It chugs/struggles worst when first started, but seems better once i've driven it around a while. But like i've said, it's still to underpowered to pull over a hill at 35mph.

I 'think' the ignition timing is okay... it idles very smoothly. I'm going to pull off the covers and check the belts on Tuesday.

Thanks,

Tim

[Cougar]

It is doubtful that the belts will cause those kind of symtoms I think. If the timing was off then it would not change after warming up. It may be good to just inspect the belts though if you don't know there condition.

[hooziewhatsit]

Glen and Roy, i don't know how to check for vacuum/intake manifold leaks.

 

Take a can of carb cleaner, or similar, and carefully spray it around any hoses/intake manifold while the car is running. If the idle speed changes at all, it's likely there is a leak near your last 'spray.' You can then try to narrow down where the leak is from there.

 

good luck

[bgd73]

Hi,

I posted earlier with same problem. I have narrowed it down to doing the chug and burp only when its cold, but I can still tell there is slight problem. I have no vacuum leaks noticable (checking it with cleaner , in my case starting fluid-for sensitivity.) I am assuming things now, like ECM gone wild, or components, SPFI internally porous?.If your problem ends up being a vacuum leak, I would love to know!

I have done every tune-up chore possible, including cleaning/degreasing.

as well as extra things to air intake.

with no perfect cure, and not noticing which chore improved it exactly.

There is a difference between our problem, I do not lack power, it seems kinda crazy burst sometimes with mine.(just like a vacuum leak).

[royboy159]

Hey New..fan---I'm wondering if that "chirping" isn't the sound of a bad timing belt. Time for the stethescope. If you don't have one, a heavy metal rod placed behind the ear against the scalp and the other end placed carefully at various non-moving spots on the engine will usually locate the source of drivetrain noises. It will sound much louder over the source.

[newloyalefan]

Thanks all,

I'll check intake/hoses/manifold with carb cleaner (or starting fluid?) spray this weekend.

If the problem were a hay-wire ECM, how would I get a replacement?

[royboy159]

Thanks all,

If the problem were a hay-wire ECM, how would I get a replacement?

Here's a link to OEM ECMs:https://www.parts.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=getLocator&siteid=213799&chapter=AML732&appSectionid=3&groupid=10046&subgroupid=60471&make=32&model=Loyale&year=1994&catalogid=1

Don't think you want to go there. Better to try the local junk yard. But you're not ready to go there yet.

[newloyalefan]

so, here's the conclusion (sorta) to my saga.

the purge control solenoid was replaced - the CEL does not come on anymore (almost).

a friend helped me adjust the timing (and the fuel/air mixture?), and that has made a huge difference. the car has much more power, though still chugs significantly for the first few minutes of driving, and sometimes up a steep hill (at one point this cause the CEL to come on for maybe thirty seconds). but at least now i can merge with traffic and take off after a stop sign.

my friend also said that i should start using 87 grade fuel and use a treatment (bgk44?) in one tank; after that, the car should start running a bit better.

so, now it drives reasonably well; but i think the old loyale has more horsepower than she's giving. but i'm happier.

thanks all for your help.

[Bill90Loyale]

Hang in there. Sort of unfortunate that you dumped that cash into the egr and purge solenoids. Those aren't cheap and many, including myself, have been running on dead ones for a long time. This car, believe it or not, will give you years of reliable service once you work the kinks out. Much of the stuff you've done in the tuneup department is great. At this point, if it were mine, I'd blast the throttle body with carb cleaner and give it the full Seafoam treatment (search the term, you'll find some info on it). This is a direct attack on the carbon and varnish buildup which can create some of the sluggishness that you're experiencing. About $6 a can at Napa. As time goes by, the Mass Airflow Sensor might need a little cleaning, the O2 sensor might benefit from a cleaning or replace, and the coolant temp sensor can cause the engine not to fire on cold start and to run rough until warmed.

[Marck]

What did you gap the spark plugs too? If it is not withing factory spec, than I would try that.

 

I had similar symptoms and gapping the spark plugs down to 0.043 or less helped it idle much better.

[royboy159]

(at one point this cause the CEL to come on for maybe thirty seconds). so, now it drives reasonably well; but i think the old loyale has more horsepower than she's giving. but i'm happier.

thanks all for your help.

Hey New...fan---You're welcome. It would be interesting to know what code that CEL stored. If you want to get that "more horsepower", just post back on this thread and we'll go to work on her.

[newloyalefan]

Alright!!! Thanks for the input!!

The following may be a re-hash for some who have been following this thread a while, but i really think there is a mystery here greater than just replacing sensors and solenoids when the CEL codes for them. I really think there is a malfunction/clog in one of these systems - emissions/exhaust manifold, air intake manifold, gas recirculation, throttle body injection.

 

Below is work that has been done on the car in the last three weeks.

This is what a shop has done on the car, in response to CEL codes:

-replace O2 sensor

-replace purge control solenoid?

-replace EGR valvel solenoid?

 

This is what i've done:

-replaced plugs/wires/distributor/rotor, air filter, and fuel filter

-begun using 87 fuel

-dropped in the bg44k? treatment

-sprayed throttle body(?) with carb/throttle cleaner (i wasn't sure where to spray, so i just removed the big black rubber rectanglar hose imprinted "subaru tbi" that is clamped over the throttle body area and sprayed down into the slightly tarnished cup below)

-adjusted ignition timing and idle

-a friend adjusted the fuel/air mixture (i think... i don't know how to do that)

 

After all that, these symptoms still remain with the Loyale - they may be two separate issues manifesting themselves:

-chugs heavily (especially in first and second gear) until it has been driven a few minutes

-chugs/hesitates uphill at high speeds (going up a hill on a highway) - this causes the CEL to come on until the hill is overcome

-during the uphill chugging, the speedometer will read something like 75mph, despite the car noticably slowing (perhaps to 55mph) as i downshift to compensate for chugging... weird!!! I thought the speedometer reads speed from the axle or something, measuring the true speed of the rolling tires, but i'm sure the car was slowing down below 75mph.

 

So, i plugged in the connectors to see what codes were stored in the computer - #35 purge control solenoid and #32 O2 sensor... again. So, i plugged in both connectors to clear the codes. The O2 sensor cleared, but not the purge control solenoid code won't clear.

 

That's it, the whole saga.

Next steps? Mystery solved? Who wants to work on my car?

Thanks,

Tim

[Cougar]

Did you check the intake manifold gaskets for a leak yet?

 

I am also thinking that the timing belts may not be quite right. You stated that adjusting the timing really helped but it didn't fix it entirely. One of the belts may be off the mark.

 

Another possibility is the fuel pump may need to be changed.