switt Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 replaced driver's side CV on 92 loyale wagon 5spd. MT still clicks when underway, stops when clutch is engaged any ideas? trans-diff fluid reads just below bottom mark after warmup on level ground. could low fluid account for such noise? sWitt OUT UPDATE W/ MORE INFO: clicks all the time w/4WD engaged; depressing clutch doesn't cause it to stop as it does when in just front wheel drive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky nighteyes Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 what did you replace it with? new? reman? junkyard? if its new, also could be the pass side. if its any others its time to take it back and get another Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibs Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Did ya tighten the castle nut good? I've heard that if loose even a little it can cause clicking. Could it be the bearings? This is the case in my Brat right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesley willis Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 some reman axles click no matter what. i blew one and changed two more before that....all were replaced with remans, all clicked. as long as its not going CLUNK CLUNK or shaking the hell out of the car, i've nothing to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarian Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I agree with Jibs- check the castle nut. ALSO- the cone washers on these tend to get a ridge on them over time, and the ridge will sit on the edge of the hub and not let you get proper torque. If there's a ridge, you can file it off with a file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 replaced driver's side CV on 92 loyale wagon 5spd. MTstill clicks when underway, stops when clutch is engaged do you mean that the clicking stops entirely when the clutch is engaged and the car is moving??? or does it keep clicking when the car is stopped?? if so, then it is not the CV - CV's generally start clicking only in tight turns, then it will progress to the point it will click whenever the car is moving - but depressing the clutch should not stop it - maybe soften it a little, but not stop it another thing - check for slop in the CV shafts - if the car is on the ground, twist the inboard DOJ (looks same as CV, but allows more movement) where it connects to the tranny - it should have NO play in it if it does, see where the slop it - and I would recommend checking both sides - also check all the boots to make shure they're good castle nuts need to be tight too (I usually torque them to 160 ft-lb, but I think factory spec is slightly less), as everyone else has mentioned, they need to be tight, or you could have bearing problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayne Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 replaced driver's side CV on 92 loyale wagon 5spd. MTstill clicks when underway, stops when clutch is engaged any ideas? trans-diff fluid reads just below bottom mark after warmup on level ground. could low fluid account for such noise? sWitt OUT Being a manual tranny I'm not sure of the throw-out-bearing configuration. But in other cars with a roller type TOB I've heard the clicking sound coming from it. If its doing it while stopped and the engine running that would be a suspect. You can isolate it if its stopped by taking a piece of tube and use it as a stethascope. Wonder around the bellhousing and see if the sound increases. Of course this technique works for hunting any elusive noise that you can get to when the cars not rolling down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
switt Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 what did you replace it with? new? reman? junkyard?if its new, also could be the pass side. if its any others its time to take it back and get another reply: Monday night no clicking , then overnight, on Tuesday the clicking started while driving straight ahead, not just hard turns, replaced w/reman and noise w/reman CV installed is exactly the same. noise stops if clutch is engaged, while car is still rolling, no noise w/ engine running, only makes the clicking noise when car is in gear and moving, drive train noise, not engine noise. any other ideas, (probably not a pass. side CV, but i think they are interchangeable in this case)new CV on pass side, anyway, clicking is still from driver's side. any other thoughts on low level of trans fluid?? sWitt OUT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
switt Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 do you mean that the clicking stops entirely when the clutch is engaged and the car is moving??? or does it keep clicking when the car is stopped?? if so, then it is not the CV - CV's generally start clicking only in tight turns, then it will progress to the point it will click whenever the car is moving - but depressing the clutch should not stop it - maybe soften it a little, but not stop it another thing - check for slop in the CV shafts - if the car is on the ground, twist the inboard DOJ (looks same as CV, but allows more movement) where it connects to the tranny - it should have NO play in it if it does, see where the slop it - and I would recommend checking both sides - also check all the boots to make shure they're good castle nuts need to be tight too (I usually torque them to 160 ft-lb, but I think factory spec is slightly less), as everyone else has mentioned, they need to be tight, or you could have bearing problems answer to first question: yes, stops completely when clutch is engaged even if the car is rolling, no noise w/ stopped vehicle plenty of torque on castle nut, spec. is for 150lbs but many have recommended 170, tighten again after a few miles wear, doesn't seem to be the problem thanks for your input sWitt OUT! P.S. what is DOJ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 answer to first question: yes, stops completely when clutch is engagedeven if the car is rolling, no noise w/ stopped vehicle P.S. what is DOJ? I'm now thinking clutch problem - but CV's to tend to be a bit funny so one still may be our culperit - this may sound crazy, but I would suggest finding an empty parking lot, and taking a tight right and left turn at a fair speed (not too fast - don't make the tires squeal, or the body lean hard) with the clutch engaged (pedle depressed) - if you still don't get noise when doing this, I vote clutch throwout bearing or pressure plate fingers the rationale behind this is that your front axles are under the most stress when you are turning - most CV problems first manifest themselves in tight turns, sometimes under load - if you take tight turns with the clutch depressed, you remove the load, but you are still moving the CV joint at its limit, so if you don't get any noise, then theoretically at least, your CV's should be fine - mind you I am coming up with this off the top of my head, so it may really be crazy DOJ means Double-Offset Joint - the joints on the transmission side of the axle are called that (I think) because they let the axle extend/retract (IE telescope) as well as work at angles, the front CV's dont. The DOJ's are rebuildable, the outer CV's on the front end are not - if you are 4wd, both ends of your rear axles are rebuildable good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
switt Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 I'm now thinking clutch problem - but CV's to tend to be a bit funny so one still may be our culperit - this may sound crazy, but I would suggest finding an empty parking lot, and taking a tight right and left turn at a fair speed (not too fast - don't make the tires squeal, or the body lean hard) with the clutch engaged (pedle depressed) - if you still don't get noise when doing this, I vote clutch throwout bearing or pressure plate fingers the rationale behind this is that your front axles are under the most stress when you are turning - most CV problems first manifest themselves in tight turns, sometimes under load - if you take tight turns with the clutch depressed, you remove the load, but you are still moving the CV joint at its limit, so if you don't get any noise, then theoretically at least, your CV's should be fine - mind you I am coming up with this off the top of my head, so it may really be crazy DOJ means Double-Offset Joint - the joints on the transmission side of the axle are called that (I think) because they let the axle extend/retract (IE telescope) as well as work at angles, the front CV's dont. The DOJ's are rebuildable, the outer CV's on the front end are not - if you are 4wd, both ends of your rear axles are rebuildable good luck thanks for the good luck wish, 'cuz seems like we need some- noise is definitely coming from front end, driver's side, not from out by the wheel/hub, but from the inside where CV joins tranny, seem to click all the time now, after some road tests; clicks in 2WD, with clutch in or out, gets worse in 4WD sWitt OUT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayne Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 reply:Monday night no clicking , then overnight, on Tuesday the clicking started while driving straight ahead, not just hard turns, replaced w/reman and noise w/reman CV installed is exactly the same. noise stops if clutch is engaged, while car is still rolling, no noise w/ engine running, only makes the clicking noise when car is in gear and moving, drive train noise, not engine noise. any other ideas, (probably not a pass. side CV, but i think they are interchangeable in this case)new CV on pass side, anyway, clicking is still from driver's side. any other thoughts on low level of trans fluid?? sWitt OUT! Is there noise while car is sitting still in netural with the clutch pedal out? If so I'm voting for TOB chatter. This sound could minimize if car is at idle. Hence the stethascope trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
switt Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 Is there noise while car is sitting still in netural with the clutch pedal out? If so I'm voting for TOB chatter. This sound could minimize if car is at idle. Hence the stethascope trick. UPDATE: no noise while car is sitting still, only while moving, clicks now in 2WD & 4WD with clutch in or out, in gear or neutral, noise varies depending on condition (2WD or 4WD clutch in or out) pace of the click noise seems to be dependent on axle rotation, not engine RPM thanks again for all the advice and attempts at diagnosis i appreciate all the good info & help!! we're just about to bail and take it to local repair shop- will give updates as to final solution. maybe the clutch TOB idea, but still no noise when standing still?? but only when car is moving! sWitt OUT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayne Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 UPDATE: no noise while car is sitting still,only while moving, clicks now in 2WD & 4WD with clutch in or out, in gear or neutral, noise varies depending on condition (2WD or 4WD clutch in or out) pace of the click noise seems to be dependent on axle rotation, not engine RPM thanks again for all the advice and attempts at diagnosis i appreciate all the good info & help!! we're just about to bail and take it to local repair shop- will give updates as to final solution. maybe the clutch TOB idea, but still no noise when standing still?? but only when car is moving! sWitt OUT! I'd just about discount the TOB from what you last said. But I would suspect a half shaft bearing either inner or outter since you said it seems to click with wheel rotation. Also you won't want to hear this but it could be an input bearing in the tranny. I'm not a gambling man but I'd just about lay money on a bearing. Didn't realize it was 4WD. You do have matched tires on the car don't you? For test purposes you can remove the fuse on the 4WD and eliminate it. We had a 4WD Turbo before this one we now have. Too many un-needed moving parts for me. Turbo and 4WD. I suppose this will be the last Subby we own 'cause they are all 4WD or All Wheel Drive now. We just don't need a 4WD in Piedmont NC. Its a shame cause the Loyale design is one of the most outstadingly thought out engine compartments I've ever set a wrench into. One other thing...My wife runs our Subby on her Mail route. From time to time we get clicks in the front brakes. That of course wouldn't have anything to do with it shutting up when the clutch is disengaged. Just thought I'd throw that in to be complete and add to the confusion Would like to know the results.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
switt Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 Did ya tighten the castle nut good? I've heard that if loose even a little it can cause clicking. Could it be the bearings? This is the case in my Brat right now. UPDATE: looks like Jibs nails it, he was the 2nd to reply to this thread and his 2nd guess of bearings seems to be the correct solution… when we put it on a lift at the local (closest) shop, the front wheel in question clearly had too much play against the bearings and evidence of wear on the hub so the estimate is $241 for bearings (inner/outer & seals) sorry now that i didn't have my country mechanic fix both sides when just a few months ago he did exactly this job on the right side… CV & bearings for $200 total i'll be into the left side for almost twice that about $370… any way if this works, we'll probably make 300K on this '92 loyale (now @268K+) will give final outcome tomorrow, if we get one?? sWitt OUT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 UPDATE:looks like Jibs nails it, he was the 2nd to reply to this thread and his 2nd guess of bearings seems to be the correct solution… when we put it on a lift at the local (closest) shop, the front wheel in question clearly had too much play against the bearings and evidence of wear on the hub so the estimate is $241 for bearings (inner/outer & seals) sorry now that i didn't have my country mechanic fix both sides when just a few months ago he did exactly this job on the right side… CV & bearings for $200 total i'll be into the left side for almost twice that about $370… any way if this works, we'll probably make 300K on this '92 loyale (now @268K+) will give final outcome tomorrow, if we get one?? sWitt OUT! ************.......sounds just like me..you sure you're not me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
switt Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 will give final outcome tomorrow, if we get one?? sWitt OUT! Friday the 13th, not a good day to look for a final outcome!! so after replacing bearings, (previously installed reman CV… see beginning of thread) a short test drive was all it took to toast the tranny, remember, 268K, on this '92 loyale now i'm looking for leads to replace w/stock 5 speed tranny for 4WD non turbo (used or reman) i can appreciate the DR option, but need the most inexpensive/simplest option we're in northern Utah 20 miles East of Salt Lake, i have a country mechanic another 20 miles east that can do the replacement, i'd appreciate any leads or offers; will also start new thread in classifieds, i guess sWitt OUT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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